Micro 1073: Purgatory - Game Over!

[Vanderscamp]

Bella and Enchant, I think you are the two most likely town here.

Bella is not voting, and Enchant is voting Bella.


I'm not going to do either of those things today.
I'm happy to compromise onto an Aureal vote, although I would strongly prefer Ranger, but I'd like to have some kind of vague consensus so that we don't just allow scum, which potentially includes either of you, to vote whoever they want because town are split.

[Alianna]

4.03

Votecount 4.03

Enchant (1):

Aureal.

Ranger (1):

Vanderscamp.

Bellaphant (1):

Enchant.

Not Voting (2):

Bellaphant, Ranger.

With 5 players alive, it takes 3 votes to condemn someone to the fiery pits of

hell

.

The phase deadline is in (expired on 2023-04-05 13:53:01).

[Vanderscamp]

I'm never going to ally with Aureal today because she has Ranger as her top town.

Ranger has the world as me/Enchant, so is probably pretty unlikely to compromise onto Aureal.



So even if I'm wrong on one of Aureal/Ranger, there's nothing I can even do about it.


I really don't understand why no one is going onto Ranger with me, but if VOTE: Aureal is what needs to happen to allow me to have one of my top two votes limmed today instead of Bella or Enchant, then ok.



If this is wrong, Aisa, I think the team is Ranger/Bella.
Please kill Ranger because from a neutral pov it should at least be pretty obvious to you that if Ranger were town, it would not be this hard to get votes there.

[Aureal]

You keep talking about how much you want to get Ranger, but when push came to shove last phase you came after me instead and made that impossible. And now you complain about how Ranger keeps getting away. I don't get it.

[Vanderscamp]

Vote Ranger with me then, Aureal.

Do you think we're a team?
Otherwise idk why you're making that post.

[Vanderscamp]

In case "I don't get it" was genuine, I'm trying to vote Ranger but it's not happening and we're running out of time.

[Vanderscamp]

You keep talking about how much you want to get Ranger, but when push came to shove last phase you came after me instead and made that impossible. And now you complain about how Ranger keeps getting away. I don't get it.

Also, if you didn't want me to "make it impossible" by voting you, maybe you could have tried voting with me on the Ranger wagon at any point in the week before I moved to you.

It's just super weird that you're implying here I'm not trying hard enough to kill Ranger, and I can't imagine what point townYou thinks you're making, so I just have to assume you're just saying it to try to discredit me.

[Aureal]

It's like you've paid no attention to anything I've said. I was intending on voting Ranger

last

phase. The Vox flip totally changed my mind and I have no intention of doing so anymore. I've already addressed my reasons for waiting as long as I did to put my vote in play. Once I voted there the phase was likely to end shortly thereafter, so I waited as long as possible to gather my thoughts, give Ranger time to recover from her illness, and others like the VLA Vox to possibly pitch in. I don't see any reason to speed through the day hardly ever so if I'm concerned that might happen, my vote is not going to be where it's going to encourage an abrupt end to the phase.

[Ranger]

Firstly, Ranger, you have BY FAR the shittest and most condemning voting logic of any player left alive, as I've talked about several times today (and no one else has jumped on or even responded to, I wonder why)

Maybe because I actually don't.

Just a thought.

But you don't explain anywhere in this post why scum would suddenly "give up on the idea and fear it'd be suspect," you just seem to assume that the entire scumteam had some kind of revelation about it.

Well yes. And?

That was my point.

Scum reevaluate. We as town don't know when they do until the game has ended. It could happen at any time for any reason.

Why

did

AurorusVox hop off of you?

It was scum-motivated to vote you, because AV was scum.
It was scum-motivated to hop off you, because AV hopped off.

Why did a scum-AV think voting you was beneficial to scum,

and then

decide voting you was detrimental to scum?

We know AV voted you.
We know AV was scum.
Ergo, we know AV believed voting you was +scum.

We know AV unvoted you.
We know AV was scum.
Ergo, we know AV believed unvoting you was +scum.

If AV believed voting you was +scum initially, but then swapped to unvoting you because he thought unvoting you was +scum, what does that necessitate?

Inherently, it means

AurorusVox changed his mind

.
Inherently, it means

AurorusVox reevaluated

.

We have proof scum reevaluated. If AV hadn't reevaluated, he would've kept his vote on you.
That he unvoted proved scum reevaluated.

The question isn't IF scum reevaluated. We've got the proof they did.
The question is, "what was the nature of the reevaluation?".

To me the far most likely reason for the reevaluation is concluding a voting bloc of scum is a bad idea.

[Ranger]

So, are you happy to vote based on wagonomics here?

I vote on wagonomics to be sure.

My wagonomics simply say something different than yours.

They suggest the scum have been trying to eliminate me the entire game, and compromising onto town to distract from scum.

Kowabunga was voting Oclaxian Empire D1. I was focused on Oclaxian Empire D1. There was an Oclaxian Empire wagon.

Scum focused on me and Kowabunga meant regardless of which {Kowabunga, Ranger} died, scum didn't.

On hell2, scum focused on {Ranger, Doctor Drew, Aureal}. Regardless of which they voted, that would be town voted out.

You said it yourself, Vander; scum working together is something you think would be strong in this setup.

Scum look coordinated in the VCs to avoid votes on {Enchant, Vanderscamp} from forming.

So I follow the wagonomics. They indicate I'm right.

[Ranger]

I have trouble seeing it.

Funny, so do I.

But either way, Ranger had votes for a large amount of the day with a lot of people talking about how consensus a kill it was.

Which players formed that consensus?

You did.
Oclaxian Empire did.
AurorusVox supported you there.
Seems like a lot of players did--including scum.

I wonder why so many players were supporting killing me? Too many for them to all be town.

And for reasons which have honestly been fairly nonexistent.
Accusations of TMI, and now "Ranger has been scumread the entire game therefore she must be scum", are the majority of the reason on me.

Perhaps the reason you're not gaining support on me is because town players capable of critical reasoning have looked at me and came to the conclusion the push on me is empty.

[Ranger]

I think you aren't scum, it's the read I'm the most confident in by far.

I strongly urge you to reconsider.

I don't think it need be said {Enchant, Aureal} aren't paired.
I know I'm town.
Therefore every team you propose I know is wrong.

If your only reason for writing Vanderscamp off is off of him looking town, you should reevaluate the interactions in the game and view the lens of all slots.

[Ranger]

why did Vox even vote me in the first place?

A good question!

One which proves my point.

You can assume that Vox randomly had a revelation midway through and changed his mind, but I don't get why you would think that would be the case.

The very fact he unvoted proves he changed his mind, likely due to a revelation.

If he didn't change his mind, he wouldn't have unvoted.

Ergo, he must have had

something

change his mind.

What would make him change his mind, Vander?

Something did!

What was it?

I posit not wanting to be caught voting scum into heaven.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Vanderscamp

I feel comfortable with this.

Vanderscamp has consistently been trying to sell a narrative which doesn't line up with the facts, downplaying the connections between {AurorusVox, OE/Enchant, Vanderscamp} and trying to insist on empty logic "Ranger is scum".

Even without the knowledge I'm town, the simple fact is he has tried to take control of the game at every stage, to get his will in place, and the interactions of flipped scum and most likely partnered scum support a scum effort to direct the town into eliminating town.

Even now, Vanderscamp is calling for the elimination of two players I believe are town.
"Elim Aureal, Aisa please shoot Ranger" "Elim Ranger, Aisa please shoot Aureal".

Vanderscamp knows both will flip town, so directing us to eliminate one and have Aisa shoot the other would...
...leave scum with a win.

[Vanderscamp]

Firstly, Ranger, you have BY FAR the shittest and most condemning voting logic of any player left alive, as I've talked about several times today (and no one else has jumped on or even responded to, I wonder why)

Maybe because I actually don't.

Just a thought.

But you don't explain anywhere in this post why scum would suddenly "give up on the idea and fear it'd be suspect," you just seem to assume that the entire scumteam had some kind of revelation about it.

Well yes. And?

That was my point.

Scum reevaluate. We as town don't know when they do until the game has ended. It could happen at any time for any reason.

Why

did

AurorusVox hop off of you?

It was scum-motivated to vote you, because AV was scum.
It was scum-motivated to hop off you, because AV hopped off.

Why did a scum-AV think voting you was beneficial to scum,

and then

decide voting you was detrimental to scum?

We know AV voted you.
We know AV was scum.
Ergo, we know AV believed voting you was +scum.

We know AV unvoted you.
We know AV was scum.
Ergo, we know AV believed unvoting you was +scum.

If AV believed voting you was +scum initially, but then swapped to unvoting you because he thought unvoting you was +scum, what does that necessitate?

Inherently, it means

AurorusVox changed his mind

.
Inherently, it means

AurorusVox reevaluated

.

We have proof scum reevaluated. If AV hadn't reevaluated, he would've kept his vote on you.
That he unvoted proved scum reevaluated.

The question isn't IF scum reevaluated. We've got the proof they did.
The question is, "what was the nature of the reevaluation?".

To me the far most likely reason for the reevaluation is concluding a voting bloc of scum is a bad idea.

How do you feel about the general premise in games of mafia that scum sometimes make votes that are not purely based on advancing their win condition?
Because your entire post falls apart if you think that's an option.



I'm also interested who you think has a worse voting logic record than you.
I've also already addressed why I think Vox and others might have moved to Aisa over me.

[Aureal]

Alright, dunno if that's enough to get Bella onboard and I'm terrible at convincing anyone of anything, but hopefully chipping in a VOTE: Vanderscamp will do it anyway.

[Vanderscamp]

I have trouble seeing it.

Funny, so do I.

But either way, Ranger had votes for a large amount of the day with a lot of people talking about how consensus a kill it was.

Which players formed that consensus?

You did.
Oclaxian Empire did.
AurorusVox supported you there.
Seems like a lot of players did--including scum.

I wonder why so many players were supporting killing me? Too many for them to all be town.

And for reasons which have honestly been fairly nonexistent.
Accusations of TMI, and now "Ranger has been scumread the entire game therefore she must be scum", are the majority of the reason on me.

Perhaps the reason you're not gaining support on me is because town players capable of critical reasoning have looked at me and came to the conclusion the push on me is empty.

Well, here's a post from Aureal, who is not on your list, talking about how it's a stretch for a non-you lim to happen D3.

Because that "get a miskill on a non-Ranger player today" part seems like a potentially huge step? It seemed pretty likely then and still seems pretty likely that Ranger is the target today. You were calling for her to be snap limmed here and saying that if you were sent to the martyr thread that was your legacy.

You also say that Vox supported your lim, but at no point did he actually vote you, and he also ended D1 on Kowabungah over you as well.
Interesting that he declined to vote you there!


And I know that even if you are somehow town, you're deliberately misrepresenting the reasons I've had you as scum, so I'm not going to bother addressing that.

[Vanderscamp]

why did Vox even vote me in the first place?

A good question!

One which proves my point.

You can assume that Vox randomly had a revelation midway through and changed his mind, but I don't get why you would think that would be the case.

The very fact he unvoted proves he changed his mind, likely due to a revelation.

If he didn't change his mind, he wouldn't have unvoted.

Ergo, he must have had

something

change his mind.

What would make him change his mind, Vander?

Something did!

What was it?

I posit not wanting to be caught voting scum into heaven.

Is anyone actually having doubts evaluating these kinds of posts from Ranger?

Because I feel like it's really, really obvious

[Vanderscamp]

What a shock that both Ranger and Aureal are voting me

For the love of god Aisa if I end up being the kill today, please kill one of them

[Vanderscamp]

I wasn't aware that every time scum changes their vote, it's due to them having a revelation.

This is good info, I might use this info next game I play.


I always just assumed that scum were capable of voting in ways that aren't just blatantly playing purely towards their wincon, that there was some element of deception involved, but now I know better that the only reasoning is scum having a strategy revelation

[Vanderscamp]

Of course, if you assume that scum are ever voting in ways that aren't mindlessly playing towards their wincon, every single piece of analysis that Ranger has given today becomes meaningless, but maybe it's possible that Ranger really does believe it?

Probably not, but maybe some extremely slim chance

[Vanderscamp]

The only thing that gives me any kind of pause is that they didn't both vote Bella here, although it's definitely possible Ranger didn't think she could get away with it.

[Vanderscamp]

Even without the knowledge I'm town, the simple fact is he has tried to take control of the game at every stage, to get his will in place, and the interactions of flipped scum and most likely partnered scum support a scum effort to direct the town into eliminating town.

The thing is, Ranger, I completely agree with you about this entire paragraph.

I have tried very hard to control the game, and get my will in place, but the problem is that for the entire game, not a single one of the votes that has happened was my preference for what to do.

I agree there has been a scum effort to direct the town into eliminating town, the issue is that you and Vox have voted together on every single one of the votes so far.


I don't know how you can have voted with Vox every single day and then say with a straight face that I'm the one who has been part of the coordinated scum agenda.



You even mentioned on D2 that you didn't want to vote me for heaven partially because Vox was voting there, but that didn't stop you from voting either Aisa D2 or Drew D3, which continues to be very confusing to me if you are town.

[Aureal]

You even mentioned on D2 that you didn't want to vote me for heaven partially because Vox was voting there, but that didn't stop you from voting either Aisa D2 or Drew D3, which continues to be very confusing to me if you are town.

Vander I already addressed this untruth about Ranger and Vox in 797, you can stop trying to make hay with it.

[Aureal]

And while I'm feeling decent about this vote; I'll throw my completed Vox iso read notes out here too just in case it's helpful. I didn't get around to summaries this time, got more distracted with the post I made earlier.


Arko/Drew: agrees Arko at top of pile (22); sus of Arko's 'panic' unvote and that Arko is also e-2 (152); argues against use of "technically" (181); doesn't like that Arko hasn't engaged with e-2 issue (322); slot is preferred lim (385); Drew vote on his is suspect (472); questions on wisdom of voting him for heaven when he'd been voting Drew's slot for hell (477); potentially rethinking read on slot due to Drew's support (478); votes over 'fabricating a lack of knowledge' of setup (575); responds to Drew's posting about swapping vote to Aisa because of Drew (635, 636)

Blood/Aureal: agrees with doing scum+townhunting (95); slight townlean (97); agrees with posts (98); likes posts (385); Aureal solidifys townie vibes (517); agrees w/Aureal it's not a likely scenario and asks for thoughts about Vander questioning (608)

Oclaxian/Enchant: vote w/o reason (95); agrees over "technically" (103); unvotes (109); likes at times but hard to read (385); asks Enchant for priority read on Aisa's slot (537); asks why Enchant posts about looking incompetent for hammering Aisa (575)

Aisa: unsure how to feel about Aisa/Vander silliness (210); asks for town/scumhunt preference (211); disarming and he wants to read as town (239); asks for comment on Arko's e-2 fiasco (322); not seeing someone's scumread of Aisa (385); understands and is guided by TR (472); using Aisa's reads to sort uncertainties on Bella/Ranger (493); offers Aisa as possibly having the support for heaven and votes (517)

Ranger: asks Bella if Ranger's contribution is better than Arko's (27); asks for opinion about Arko's e-2 backpedal (209); presses after Ranger misunderstands the Arko e-2 question (239); clarifies issue with Arko's e-2 (245, 251, 252); can't tell if reevaluation on Arko is legit (322); keen to see Ranger's conclusion on Arko (323); could be scum or hardheaded townie, Aisa's TR is main thing swaying him away from Ranger lim (385); intent to hammer before deadline (398); not sure why Ranger 'supported' the Vander wagon and suggests maybe scum together (608)

Bella: responds on Arko-read (27); null- townslip seems shifty but clumsy for scum to do (385); responds to Bella asking for engagement by asking for her to tell what she thinks of his 'draft' heaven vote proposal (472); asks why self-votes seem desparate (473)

Kawaii/Kowah: asks about Kowah's one post they felt strongly about (324); didn't like attitude (385); votes (399); suspect of Kowah putting e-1 but not announcing it (402)

Vander: agrees Arko's mild town is top of list (28); strongest townread (385); asks for take on Aisa/Bella (472); votes for Vander to heaven (482); people who don't like Vander for heaven need to be proposing non-self alternatives and offers Aisa as possibly having the support (517); likes reasoning on heaven vote though agrees w/Aureal it's not a likely scenario, not sure why Ranger 'supported' the Vander wagon and suggests maybe scum together (608)