Open 546: Fire and Ice (Game Over)


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Post Post #850 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:43 am

Post by Rubicon »

Vote Count 3.3


[3]
ObsessedWithCats
- Dry-fit, jmo16mla, Titus
[1]
Dry-fit
- ObsessedWithCats

[3]
Not voting
- Haylen, Shadowcat, 3dicerolling

With 7 alive, it is 4 votes to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2014-03-22 14:00:00).


ObsessedWithCats is V/LA until Tuesday.

Let me know if you see any problems.
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Post Post #851 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:19 pm

Post by 3dicerolling »

VCAs are cool.
In post 504, Rubicon wrote:
Vote Count 1.14 (Final)


[7]
Surye
-
mastin2
, Shadowcat,
fontisian
, Titus,
Gooner
,
Zekrom25
,
pisskop

[4]
Zekrom25
- Haylen,
Surye
, ObsessedWithCats,
jklash12

[1]
ObsessedWithCats
- Dry-fit
[1]
jklash12
- jmo16mla

With 13 alive, it is 7 votes to lynch.
Highlighted all the town on the wagons.
In post 782, Rubicon wrote:
Vote Count 2.9 (Final)


[6]
pisskop
- fontisian, Titus, Shadowcat, Dry-fit, Haylen,
Edosurist

[3]
Dry-fit
-
jklash12
,
pisskop
, ObsessedWithCats
[1]
Titus
- jmo16mla

With 10 alive, it was 6 votes to lynch.
5 town on the surye wagon. 2 left. 1 has to be scum.
1 town on the pisskop wagon. 5 Undecided.

Notes -

- At the beginning of my reading, my gut was screaming titus scum.
- People have thrown around titus scum multiple times this game, but nobody has come through with a full attack.
- Titus was on both surye and pisskop wagon.
- Titus led an extremely town pisskop to the grave, and don't even pull that "haylen was their too" crap because from what I have read, haylen didn't affect it all too much and voted 5th.
- This is fire and ice. With a player like titus (yes, that's a compliment), who appears to be recognized as town by just about everyone, you'd think at least one team would want him dead, right? What's sounds more likely is, he is on one of the team, and the other team hasn't killed him yet.

Vote: Titus


@Anyone - Not entirely familiar with fire and ice rules. Scum has to get rid of other scum and have more people than the town to win, right?
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Post Post #852 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:35 pm

Post by 3dicerolling »

Really glad I didn't miss this gem.
In post 791, Titus wrote:Ok here's what I am seeing.

Looking at the fire teams kills in a vaccuum, I am seeing a neon sign that points to Obsessed with Cats. Who wanted Gooner lynched day 1 and jklash lynched day 2? Obsessed with Cats. This seems to be a little to easy, like the fire scum are wanting an Obsessed with Cat lynch. Those kills actually weaken my desire for an OWC lynch but still make it possible as kills could be obvious or a setup. That's wifom but the evidence points to OWC.

Looking at the ice team kills, Dry-fit makes a good candidate for ice scum. The kill on Fonti occurs just after Fonti and I started working together, thus preventing townblocs from occuring. This is also consistent with the iceteam taking out mastin d1. Dry-fit is also in a position to assume the natural power void here.

JMO is lurkerbait and tunnelled both days. I can see why he's here.
Edosurist replaced Zekrom who was useless day 1. I can see why both scum teams would keep him here, although he did seem to push against Pisskop which means he's got it a little bit figured out possibily.
Then there's Haylen. I really don't know what to think here. The major drama seems to avoid him for the most part (but for the Shadowcat/Haylen thing)
Shadowcat is probably the one person I still don't want to lynch.


Of course, I'm starting to get paranoid that maybe Shadowcat and Haylen are a team and that was all weakass scum theatre. Bleh.
In post 811, Shadowcat wrote:The only thing I can see wrong with that is that it's you proposing it, and I'm getting more and more sure that you are scum. Although as there are two teams that wouldn't rule out the suggestion; it just makes me think that Haylen is on the other team.

I'm beginning to cool off a bit on OWC, mainly because I can't really see who their partner might be now that kop is out of the picture, unless it's jmo, which is certainly a possibility.

Titus
and Dry-fit are probably
my top scum-reads for now
, Edosurist the most likely to be town.

If this seems rather waffly that's probably because it is.
In post 822, Titus wrote:
Shadowcat, that post just obliterated any townread I had on you
. You are posturing here in the last few posts.

1) You give yourself an excuse to vote Halen, because you only refuse to me leading the train. It leaves you an out to become convinced.
2) The OWC lacks a partner is an excuse not to vote a scumread. It's also bullshit. Your reasons for eliminating the people you did are shitty.
3) The 819 post is good town play. A majority of lynches are likely to hit scum, but that doesn't mean we stop asking questions and doing things to find the scum.



Dry-fit, I missed this, why is jmo scummy? He has been vla for half tbe game which makes him hard to read. Then his posts are full of derp.
Well, that read took a 180 didn't it now? Because, I'm sure your scum read on shadow had nothing to do with them calling you out as scum.
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Post Post #853 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:21 pm

Post by jmo16mla »

So is OWC now town or just more town than titus?
town: 15:13 Scum 4:4
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Post Post #854 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:26 pm

Post by Titus »

You left out Fonti town on Day 2.

You also left out the big reason why my Shadowcat read changed. Those posts in a vaccuum look bad. Shadowcat's reaction to OWC and Haylen were big factors as well.
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Post Post #855 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:27 pm

Post by Titus »

Yup, you are right on the scum wincon. The role pms are at the font.
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Post Post #856 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:28 pm

Post by Titus »

Who is your unlynchable?
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Post Post #857 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:11 pm

Post by 3dicerolling »

In post 853, jmo16mla wrote:So is OWC now town or just more town than titus?
Don't really like OWC that much, but Titus is ever so much more scummy.
In post 854, Titus wrote:You left out Fonti town on Day 2.

You also left out the big reason why my Shadowcat read changed. Those posts in a vaccuum look bad. Shadowcat's reaction to OWC and Haylen were big factors as well.
Vacuum? What reactions do you specifically not like?
In post 855, Titus wrote:Yup, you are right on the scum wincon. The role pms are at the font.
Not sure what you're referring to, unless you mean the purple text, which was me trying to use green, but it failing for some odd reason.
In post 856, Titus wrote:Who is your unlynchable?
Are you referring to me?
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Post Post #858 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:47 pm

Post by 3dicerolling »

Never mind. I understand post 855. Didn't realize you were answering that.
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Post Post #859 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:50 pm

Post by Shadowcat »

In post 829, Titus wrote:If you are assuming that me, Dry-fit and Haylen are not OWC's partner, then that gives you a clear answer of Edosurist/JMO as the scum partner and again gives you no reason not to vote OWC as the other scum player would become more obvious. Again, there's no reason not to be intending to hammer from your POV as you do have possible partners.
Unless one of Edosurist/JMO is partner to one of you, Dry-fit or Haylen instead. Why are you trying to rush the lynch when it's vital we get as much information as possible before we lose three more people?
In post 842, Titus wrote:I am pretty sure that OWC and Cat are partners.
So you think we were superbussing them Day two?
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Post Post #860 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:08 pm

Post by Titus »

I'm trying to push the lynch TO get the information we need. For instance, Dryfit and OWC are near impossible to be bussing partners. JMO is not likely a partner of OWC. So if OWC has a partner, then it has to be one of the three refusing to vote him. The longer we let a wagon linger, the less likely we are to hit scum.

@3d, You cut out the trajectory in your understanding. That's why I look scummy.

2) I posted two reaction style posts. First was my bs case on Dryfit. OWC sheeps that when I post it, although it was 5 layers of suck. Shadowcat doesn't call out the 5 layers of suck either. I then say Haylen should be the lynch, no case. Instead of providing a response, Shadowcat she could be willing to lynch Haylen. Shadowcat should have been calling that shit out, but wasn't. It was a test. I supposed Shadowcat would call me out. Instead, when they are like "we'll lynch everything" it looked scummy. You just saw the front and end of the trajectory and analyzed them by themselves.

3) The role pms, town and scum are on the front page. Font should equal front. I forgot the R.

4) Yeah 3d. Pick one person you wouldn't want to lynch. It's basically a scum check. If everyone says they are fine with lynching a player, but we can't lynch them, they are probably scum.
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Post Post #861 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:09 pm

Post by Titus »

Basically, scum have to answer 4 with their partner, but can't due to wifom.
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Post Post #862 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:19 pm

Post by 3dicerolling »

I'd honestly like a little bit more time to develop my strongest town read by reactions, but from what I've seen, Haylen would be the person I wouldn't lynch.

And just because shadowcat and owc could be partners, doesn't mean your not still scum. It just means your helping me and the other 2 town players find all the members of the scum teams.

Honestly, since I am pretty sure your scum, I'd rather lynch you. You seem like the strongest scum player in the bunch, therefore should have the honor of dying first.
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Post Post #863 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:23 pm

Post by 3dicerolling »

I need to know who you think the other scum team is and why if you want me to back off because right now, you look pretty good as fire/ice #1
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Post Post #864 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:41 pm

Post by Titus »

@3d, it's pretty obvious why I'm not dead. I'm derping. Scum don't feel threatened by town leaders who have the puzzle wrong.

You ignored my responses to your scum theory, which makes me think you're keeping it in spite of the evidence.

It sounds more like to me, you picked the towniest player, put something together and then wanted to be on a lynch you knew had little shot of going through. I half expect Shadowcat to jump. Unfortunately, your behavior is muddying the fuck out of who OWC's partner can be.
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Post Post #865 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:42 pm

Post by Titus »

I also just posted

Right now I like OWC/Shadowcat (could be you given theory but you could be new derping since you are new)
Then Dry fit is probably town.
So that leaves you/jmo/Haylen for the other team.
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Post Post #866 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:13 pm

Post by Dry-fit »

In post 821, Shadowcat wrote:1) What don't you like about our interactions with jmo?
Because you have a no good dirty townread on him for no good reason.
Shadowcat wrote:2) That would be because Mala didn't write those posts.
Well ok you guys haven't been signing your posts much so since your slot suspects me I suspected some of that was from her. mala did show suspicion of me at least once though. It's still weird that mala hasn't talked about my meta since she's seen me play this setup three times and she's a very meta heavy player.
Shadowcat wrote:3) I'm trying to recall if I've ever been in a game with you but I don't think I have, so where are you coming from with that last point?
If you mean the point about the nightkills I don't know how well I can explain it. Some of them are very strange, and I feel like both of you are players who would make off the wall nightkill choices.

Welcome to the game dice. I'm sorry to tell you but there's virtually no chance of Titus getting lynched today. Try somewhere else.
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Post Post #867 (ISO) » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:29 am

Post by 3dicerolling »

Titus - I'll respond after school today.

DryFit - Whose perspective are you talking from? Yours or are you trying to represent everyone as whole? Regardless of who you are speaking for, tell me why you feel this way.
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Post Post #868 (ISO) » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:03 pm

Post by 3dicerolling »

In post 860, Titus wrote:I'm trying to push the lynch TO get the information we need. For instance, Dryfit and OWC are near impossible to be bussing partners. JMO is not likely a partner of OWC. So if OWC has a partner, then it has to be one of the three refusing to vote him. The longer we let a wagon linger, the less likely we are to hit scum.

@3d, You cut out the trajectory in your understanding. That's why I look scummy.

2) I posted two reaction style posts. First was my bs case on Dryfit. OWC sheeps that when I post it, although it was 5 layers of suck. Shadowcat doesn't call out the 5 layers of suck either. I then say Haylen should be the lynch, no case. Instead of providing a response, Shadowcat she could be willing to lynch Haylen. Shadowcat should have been calling that shit out, but wasn't. It was a test. I supposed Shadowcat would call me out. Instead, when they are like "we'll lynch everything" it looked scummy. You just saw the front and end of the trajectory and analyzed them by themselves.

3) The role pms, town and scum are on the front page. Font should equal front. I forgot the R.

4) Yeah 3d. Pick one person you wouldn't want to lynch. It's basically a scum check. If everyone says they are fine with lynching a player, but we can't lynch them, they are probably scum.
2) I can definitely see where you're going with OWC, that vote was a load of crap. Shadow to a lesser extent just because they are actually relating what you said to their current standpoint to you as a scum read. Right now, you don't need to do anymore scum hunting if you nailed the two ice/fire players. You just need to convince every town player left that they would be the best to benefit from, and tunnel the heck out of them.
In post 864, Titus wrote:@3d, it's pretty obvious why I'm not dead. I'm derping. Scum don't feel threatened by town leaders who have the puzzle wrong.

You ignored my responses to your scum theory, which makes me think you're keeping it in spite of the evidence.

It sounds more like to me, you picked the towniest player, put something together and then wanted to be on a lynch you knew had little shot of going through. I half expect Shadowcat to jump. Unfortunately, your behavior is muddying the fuck out of who OWC's partner can be.
1) If you are derping, than why do you seem so confident in your reads? If scum wants to kill anyone, they want to kill the active person, who is confident in their standpoint, unless of course, they are just way out there. Also, if you feel you have the puzzle wrong, then why should I believe you on OWC and Shadow?

2) I didn't ignore your responses, I just didn't see anything I really needed to respond to. Until I notice the last sentence of point 2 of course.

3) How are you the towniest player if you have the puzzle wrong? I picked the player who has been picked up on a couple times this game, but never really pursued, and who is most definitely scum. How am I muddying the water at all?
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Post Post #869 (ISO) » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:14 pm

Post by 3dicerolling »

In post 796, Dry-fit wrote:
In post 795, Titus wrote:Dry-fit, you have to pick someone you don't want to lynch for my reads gathering exercise.

Why did you ignore the fact I pretty much called you icescum?
If I had to pick someone I guess it would be you.

If you want to draw conclusions from nightkill analysis I don't know how much I can convince you you're wrong. I will say that as I've said my philosophy is that scum should be aiming for scum in this setup, so I wouldn't have killed fontisian. You can believe me on that or not but it can get pretty wifommy.
So is this why dry-fit is town titus?
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Post Post #870 (ISO) » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:02 pm

Post by Titus »

The thing about not needing to do anymore scumhunting is absolutely wrong. We do need to lynch one scum, but we have to draw reactions that make them obvious to the other team. There are quite a few scenarios here, but we need the non-OWC team to shoot a scumfuck here to prevent the other scumfuck team from winning. If OWC-team shoots town and non-OWC team doesn't shoot the same town, non-OWC wins. If both scums shoot the same target, then we get another free lynch shot. We have to cut off information so that the big team can't shoot the scum AND hide, thus leaving golden opportunity for a 1 v 1 v 2 or 3 v 1. Then we no lynch, hoping the two scums NK each other or the last scum has to tip their hand by shooting the most obvious townie.

That's the goal. We have to ensure a cross-kill. So that's why we have to hurry and hammer the most obvious scumfuck.

Normally though, I'd agree with you.

If we lynch town here, we are pretty boned, but I don't see anyone making a case that OWC is town here. Stalling this lynch out is exactly what I expect scum to do because scum must find the last townies. Town just have to trick scum into nightkilling the wrong team here.
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Post Post #871 (ISO) » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:08 pm

Post by Titus »

As for the derping, it takes me awhile of derping to figure things out correctly sometimes. Look at Walking Dead. I derped on Oversoul until I figured out Candillian was scum. Still failed.

Ugh, loaded self-vouch question. I don't have the puzzle wrong, so your question ("How can I be town if I have the puzzle wrong?) is inaccurate and rhetorical. I'm editing it to "How can I be town if I
had
the game wrong?") Town mess up. We use the information we gain to solve the rest of the game. I'm always targeted as scum, due to my recent scum victories and frequent mislynches as town. Out of my recent games, I have had about 5 scum PMs compared to 1 town pm (out of the ones flipped obviously, this doesn't count ongoing).

You're muddying the water because I would expect town to know we need a quick scum hammer here and that was my objective from my posting. Only OWC's partner was supposed to resist an OWC lynch but there's two players clearly resisting, which makes no sense.
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Post Post #872 (ISO) » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:17 pm

Post by 3dicerolling »

Gonna get to a response tomorrow, (exhausted tonight) but I do like some of your responses and am willing to keep an open mind about your win condition.
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Post Post #873 (ISO) » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:58 pm

Post by Shadowcat »

@ Titus: Still waiting for a response to the second part of .

In post 866, Dry-fit wrote:Because you have a no good dirty townread on him for no good reason.
But we don't have a town read on him. Where are you getting that from?
In post 866, Dry-fit wrote:Welcome to the game dice. I'm sorry to tell you but there's virtually no chance of Titus getting lynched today. Try somewhere else.
Why is there no chance? I disagree with that.


In other news, my town read on 3dice has dropped to null probably scum, and this change is not related to pairs speculation.
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Post Post #874 (ISO) » Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:17 am

Post by Shadowcat »

So, I'm sitting here going those who have played with me (mala) before why are none of them actively trying to put my meta on the hydra itself. My other hydra is pretty awesome and she has some distinct town tells that make her scum game different in terms of meta too.

But my point here really is WHY IS NO ONE TRYING TO ACTIVELY READ US. Like why is Titus, Jmo and Dry NOT TRYING TO REACH OUT TO US.

I can actually see Dry trying to reach out when he asked Huntress about me trying to use meta on him. Dry my problem with meta and I have already said this in our QT is that I'm REALLY bad at reading you and you know this. I read you wrong in F&I and I read you wrong in that large game. So I don't really take much stock in any read I have on you because chances are it's not accurate and I dont even know what my read on you is.

I'm so fucking lost that it actually makes me sad to see how lost I am in terms of trying to figure out whos scum.

My mind is saying Titus is for sure scum. Like, her instance in RVS gives off alarm bells. I tried reading her ISO w/o being bias, but it just keeps coming off scum to me. Then there's the Mastin kill which either means titus scum or OWC scum and I can go with either of those two.

Then we have the replacement to the slot I have thought was town from Day 1 and I am for one waffling on that slot. I was hoping so hard that rubi would give the replacement to someone I could read and who could actively read us so TOWN HAS A CHANCE OF WINNING, but the replacements are people i cant read because they are so new.

which really sucks because the people whom I have played with in the past arent playing how I want them to play and the players who I havent played with look so fucking scummy that it hurts.

so in the end i'm at ground zero.

there's two other town left and 4 scum left and I have zero clue who the town are because EVERYONE LOOKS SO SCUMMY. its hard to hunt based on speculation of pairs because we havent actually lynched scum.

I wont lie I thought Zek was the freaking doctor and then fonti flipped doc and it made me cry because it made me waffle on that slot again, but edos killed the read and then the read further got killed by 3dice and I'm stuck.

td;lr

do not read the above.

Mala is lost and feels lost.

TOWN GIVE ME A SIGN THAT YOU ARE TOWN, PLS.

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