Open 211: Tit for Tat v.2 -- Game Over!

[Doctor Who]

Well, I did my part.

You sure did. I wanted you dead over ooba. You were a great town replacement.

[ICEninja]

what can I improve on.

For the love of God, don't shoot on night 1 when multiple people have a town read on that player.

[kyle99]

Yay Nice job Doctor Who, you really won the game for us.

[PaltryExcuse]

Thanks for the compliments! I hope you all enjoyed the game and I get to play with you once my RL stuff becomes less... stressful.

I about poo'd my pants after this post from the mod. Who can tell me what is wrong with this post?

Bah. Just tell me. ><

Also, ooba reviewed and gave me his investigation Night 1 before the 2 mafia members told me their night kill and jail.

---

On jmj's NK: I would've taken a little stock in how much town flipped on their opinion of him as a sign to leave him for at least another day. Day 1 is good upon reflection, but the lack of information for town means your opinions on others should change. However, in jmj's defense, I think he saw scum getting off when in jmj's eyes Leaf was scum. From jmj's perspective that may look like a necessary night kill, and one I might've made had I been in jmj's shoes (thinking Leaf was scum while many others were calling him town). Probably though, I would've shot flinter for the constant defense of Looker.

On kyle's analysis post: You know, the one where he listed kiku as most townie, etc. The fact he pointed a finger at Doctor Who without really saying anything, and then flipped scum... I would've been on Doc Who for that. That wishy-washy semi-blame game seems more plausible if kyle was thinking he might get lynched. Either way, I had the bird's eye view so take this from a 'the mod knows what to look for' stance. From how kyle was on ICE also, I think I would've been hard pressed to vote for him. I saw Dizzy's pure tunnel play as much more concerning than ICE and considered her play to be the more scummy of the two.

On kiku's self hammer: I agree with the town that kikuchiyo was the one to be lynched that day. Far and wide. Making it to lylo would've made her the instant lynch and that is not a good thing to carry. However, the fact that the only people brought up by anyone save kiku was Dizzy by kiku, and ICE by Doctor Who... didn't spell well for town. There needed to be a bit of consideration in other directions, and Day 4 was town's worst day IMHO. Doctor Who played very well this day as he came out looking more town than he began. Day 3 was town's best however, due in part to Cove and ooba's claim clearing the air.

Feel free to disagree with whatever above.

@kyle: Do you mind if the mafia QT is posted? Doctor Who is willing to.

Also, @all: What do you think of the setup now that it has been played? (Side note, thanks for being MafiaScum guinea pigs.)

[Leafsnail]

I dropped that many PR roles? Also, sorry Leaf, you seemed the scummiest to me, so you got the bullet from me. From the little bit of play y'all saw from me, what can I improve on.

Who was your second target?

We talked about killing Leaf, but I figured the vig might get him.

Also, we knew that Leaf wasn't the vig...

Hmm, what did I do that wasn't vig?

I sortof see what you mean about jmj... he kinda left me in the end, as if he felt he could deal with me later.

[Doctor Who]

what can I improve on.

For the love of God, don't shoot on night 1 when multiple people have a town read on that player.

I thought the vig had to kill each night...

[Doctor Who]

Yay Nice job Doctor Who, you really won the game for us.

Thanks. It was a blast.

If we are ever scum together again, be sure to avoid the "loyalty" tell that ooba was talking about.

[kikuchiyo]

Sorry, town. I wouldn't have voted DW anyway. I shouldn't have goofed around so much on day 1. I just went with the odds that Looker would be town and wanted to have some fun, but that interaction left Dizzy unable to explore other options. My bad. I wouldn't have thought she was scum if she hadn't tunneled on me so much, but DW didn't get scummy at all until the end, and even then, it was tough to pin him. Well done.

[Doctor Who]

I'll narrow it down. Anyone?

I about poo'd my pants after this post from the mod. Who can tell me what is wrong with this post?

Not Voting (9) - peanutman, kyle99, Doctor Who, ooba, flinter, Fat_Tony, DizzyIzzyB13, ICEninja, kikuchiyo

[Doctor Who]

IF kiku hadn't self-hammered, I was going to try to get the town to lynch ICE. I'd kill ooba that night, and Dizzy would have been all over kiku the last day. Easy scum victory.

[jmj3000]

If I hadn't sent a target in, a target would have been chosen at random, so someone was dying night 1 along with me :/.

[ooba]

I'll narrow it down. Anyone?

I about poo'd my pants after this post from the mod. Who can tell me what is wrong with this post?

Not Voting (9) - peanutman, kyle99, Doctor Who, ooba, flinter, Fat_Tony, DizzyIzzyB13, ICEninja, kikuchiyo

PRs on one side and VTs on another?

[PaltryExcuse]

I'll narrow it down. Anyone?

I about poo'd my pants after this post from the mod. Who can tell me what is wrong with this post?

Not Voting (9) - peanutman, kyle99, Doctor Who, ooba, flinter, Fat_Tony, DizzyIzzyB13, ICEninja, kikuchiyo

PRs on one side and VTs on another?

CRAP! Not only that but they're in alphabetical order (Backup Jailkeeper, Mafia Deputy... etc.).

This is what happens when I write from my notepad instead of from the thread. Sorry everyone.

Well, lesson learned for me. Keep notepad order the same as thread order.

---

Side note: As is said in the opening, all roles are compulsory (hence why Doctor Who had to direct his jail away from his kill night 4, and jmj3000 had to kill night 1). I think this is for balance issues.

---

Any and all comments on the setup would be greatly appreciated. I'll get them back to farside22 so she can decide whether or not to continue to use this setup in the open queue.

[Leafsnail]

Hmm... well, first the vigilante probably needs to be renamed Overeager Vigilante if he can't choose not to kill. I didn't actually realise this during the game (because I thought I knew what a vigilante was implicitly).

The "Tit for Tat" element never actually came into play, but it's just coincidence that both the mafia and town backup died before their opposite did.

[Leafsnail]

Oh yeah, and I remember thinking during the game "Dr Who may be scum, but if he is, he probably deserves to win".

[Doctor Who]

Leaf, this is what I posted in the QT on you.

"He didn't know that the vig was compulsive (he said the vig could no kill when I said D2 could be lylo) so I doubt he's the vig."

[Doctor Who]

As far as the setup goes:

1) The scum can lose as early as D2 with a D1 scum lynch, vig killing scum night 1, and a scum lynch day 2. I worried about this with Looker going down day 1.

2) The town can lose pretty fast too. D1 mislynch, scum & vig hit town night 1 leaves 6 town day 2. Another mislynch with scum & vig hitting town at night means day 3 starts with 3 scum vs. 3 town. Basically D2 can be lylo if the night goes bad for the town.

3) Overall, I liked the setup.

4) I tried to see if I could jail kyle night 1 and still kill, but I couldn't do it. I was worried about kyle for hammering looker day 1. With three scum alive at night, X could kill, and Z could jail Y.

5) As scum, I worried about the rolecop and the vig more than the backup jailer. With backup roles, for them to matter you have to A) kill the primary and B) the secondary has to be alive. The backup scum is more powerful than the backup town from a what do you know perspective - the backup townie loses the info gleaned from the primary.

6) It was nice to be a jailer - it gave me the option of killing cove instead of ooba.

7) This game seemed to have a lot of replacements, but this wasn't likely due to the setup.

8) ???

[Doctor Who]

Oh yeah, and I remember thinking during the game "Dr Who may be scum, but if he is, he probably deserves to win".

On day 1?

[Doctor Who]

Ooba - why did you choose to investigate Tony N1 and ICE N2?

[Leafsnail]

Oh yeah, and I remember thinking during the game "Dr Who may be scum, but if he is, he probably deserves to win".

On day 1?

No, later on. When dead and skimming over the thread.

The vig thing... ugh. Again, I just assumed the vigilante was what it usually is.

The town technically won't lose night 2, since NL is an option on day two after a mislynch and miskill. Heck, you can even lynch the vig if you really need t.

[ICEninja]

I think this setup is pretty good, but the game can be almost decided on day 1. If a townie is lynched, a townie shot, and the role cop night killed, scum moves in to day 2 with 1/3rd of the population and both the power roles.

Perhaps you can evaluate the idea of a non compulsory but only 1 bullet (possibly 2) vigilante. This reduces the excessive damage that can be done day 1, while limiting the game ending potential of the town exclusive power role.

[MeMe]

last post

[Hoopla]

Sorting bump.