Mini #764: Notre Dame Mafia, Game Over


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Post Post #800 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:09 am

Post by ortolan »

I can't believe Kast actually thinks I am more suspicious than DGB, who
NEVER VOTED KAST AT ALL
, continually insisting he was town.

My preferences for scum were also entirely aligned with mr. confirmed town CTD, who
explicitly said he favoured a DGB lynch over Budja
, as I did. Yet I am the scummiest, while he was obv-town according to charter and DGB (having CTD dead is a wonderful thing, DGB is free to claim "yer he was obv-town hehe" despite him saying how amazingly scummy you were. If his reads were so good why aren't you voting yourself???) The point made by CTD that DGB is staunchly anti-busing, and therefore her behaviour is entirely consistent with her being scum with Budja, is also lost on these players.

it's dissapointing that of charter, ac1983fan, Kast and DGB (well not DGB) at least two are town, and at least two are therefore failing to read the game. They would appreciate the obvious fact that DGB is scum.

I would like these four players (one of whom wasn't voting Budja, LuL) to tell me why I should have known Budja was obv-scum earlier and why it is inherently scummy to be the sixth vote on a wagon (basically, the point Kinetic made), and why it is more scummy than never joining the wagon at all, particularly whenthe player in question is a player known and acknowledged to be anti-busing.

That said, having reviewed the wagon I am far less sure charter is scum (he was first to vote). This only makes it more desirable that he answer the above question. ac1983fan was the 4th vote on the wagon, which is interesting. I will admit I'm not sure who DGB's partner is currently.
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Post Post #801 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:22 am

Post by AceMarksman »

ortoscum wrote:I can't believe Kast actually thinks I am more suspicious than DGB, who NEVER VOTED KAST AT ALL, continually insisting he was town
Kast can't find you suspicious because you never voted him? Really?
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Post Post #802 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:21 am

Post by charter »

ortolan wrote:I would like these four players (one of whom wasn't voting Budja, LuL) to tell me why I should have known Budja was obv-scum earlier and why it is inherently scummy to be the sixth vote on a wagon (basically, the point Kinetic made), and why it is more scummy than never joining the wagon at all, particularly whenthe player in question is a player known and acknowledged to be anti-busing.
It's that you constantly said you were suspicious of Budja, but always had your vote on someone else, always was pushing a case against someone else, and then finally voted at the VERY end of the day.

Kinetic's point is crap, same as most that he's made today. I feel he should spend his time reading up on the game rather than what he's doing now, since he still admits he hasn't read it.

I find the chance of AceMarksman being scum a GREAT deal lower after Budja's slipup. I'm still very open to the possibility of DGB being scum, but I think your actions are far more likely to come from scum distancing the whole day, then bussing at the very end. Could DGB be scum? Sure.
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Post Post #803 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:23 am

Post by zwetschenwasser »

Ace, I don't remember what order I picked my cards.
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Post Post #804 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:24 am

Post by charter »

zwetschenwasser wrote:Ace, I don't remember what order I picked my cards.
CHECK YOUR PM!
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Post Post #805 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:34 am

Post by Kast »

Oops, meant to vote last post.

VOTE: Ort


@Kinetic-
I am not strawmanning him, I'm pointing out that my choice makes no sense as scum.
The point is that if you are scum, then you obviously did not use a plague on CTD, and your claim to do so is a lie.

Feel free to continue telling Charter it makes no sense for Kinetic as scum to use plague on CTD. He isn't arguing that point. Arguing against that point is arguing against a straw man.

-It is wifom. There is no clear townie motivation and no clear scum motivation for you claiming to have plagued CTD. Saying that scum wouldn't have any motivation to do that and therefore implying that you are a townie is building a case out of wifom.

-My question that you quoted is not a repeat of the previous. I am asking why you CLAIMED your night action. This is separate from why you PERFORMED your night action. What motivation does Kinetic the townie have for telling everyone that he used a plague on a dead player?

@Ace-
If Kinetic has been protected by an apothecary then we are in one of these cases:
-Kinetic lied about his cards and therefore probably scum.
-Kinetic has a teammate who used an apothecary on him.
-Random townie felt Kinetic was such a strong townie that he decided to apothecary Kinetic AND Kinetic knew that Random townie felt this way and had an apothecary.

Third option is unlikely to the point of not worth considering.

@Ortolan-
I will note that CTD did name DGB as his top suspect for Budja's scum buddy. I think it is a mistake to assume CTD dying means CTD's top suspect is scum. That would be a very foolish assumption.

I am watching DGB, and I agree that DGB is not playing like a clear townie (in particular, I did not like how DGB's vote kept flying around near the end of Day 1 with little explanation). But I definitely think your actions are more scummy.

-The primary difference between your play and CTD's play is that CTD actually voted in a manner that indicated he was trying to lynch scum. You held a similar position to CTD, and went further and called Charter a probable townie. But when it looked like Charter might be lynched, instead of taking action to lynch your number 2 scum and avoid the lynch of your number 1 townie, you tried to pull people away from your number 2 scum's wagon and onto other players who were not anywhere near being lynched.

-The problem I see with your vote is not that it was the 6th vote, but that you were so unwilling to place a vote on Budja at any point when it might have mattered, but as soon as it no longer mattered, you placed your vote. If you were making a point of voting for your most suspicious person (DGB?) and kept your vote there at end of day, that would make a bit more sense. But instead, you choose to move to Budja after it no longer mattered. What changed that made it worthwhile to place your vote on Budja?

@Ace-
I think you're misreading Ort. He is either suggesting that I am scumbuddies with DGB (hence DGB never voting Kast), or chastising me for not seeing that DGB was trying to buddy with me (I'm not clear which he's aiming for).
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Post Post #806 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:37 am

Post by Kast »

@Ort-
If you are telling me that DGB is buddying with me; I can see that and I agree it is possible. I'm not sure that it's townie or scum trying to buddy with me. I'll try to not let that affect me.
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Post Post #807 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:39 am

Post by zwetschenwasser »

Ah yes, 1. Plague
2.Double
3. Rat
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Post Post #808 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:39 am

Post by Kast »

@Zwet-
You didn't answer why you decided to Double then Plague instead of Plague then Double.
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Post Post #809 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:40 am

Post by zwetschenwasser »

Because I want to kill two people, duh.
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Post Post #810 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:53 am

Post by Kast »

Lol...that's kinda scary how he said that...and I guess I walked into that one...

Do you have any other reasons?
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Post Post #811 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:57 am

Post by zwetschenwasser »

Not really. :D
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Post Post #812 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:59 am

Post by AceMarksman »

zwetschenwasser wrote:Ah yes, 1. Plague
2.Double
3. Rat
looker, can you confirm this?
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Post Post #813 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:01 am

Post by zwetschenwasser »

So, how does the order help you?
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Post Post #814 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:03 am

Post by Kast »

@Looker-
Welcome to the game and thanks for replacing in!

Can you confirm that Zwet's second card could be Double, and that his third card was Rat?

@Ace-
To confirm, Zwet picked a Plague instead of Sanctuary or Apothecary. This is similar to your claimed pick and Kinetic's claimed pick. Each of you has claimed to have picked a Plague over at least one pro-town card (Sanc, Apoth, Both).

His second pick was a choice between Double and Mimic. I don't see either one being particularly scummy; if anything I would say Double is less scummy since it can be used Night 2 to help with future nights (this is an extremely marginal use and I think it better to use the Plague on Night 2).

Getting passed a Rat as his third card does not make him scummy.
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Post Post #815 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:04 am

Post by zwetschenwasser »

Looker's in this game too? *facepalm*
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Post Post #816 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:08 am

Post by AceMarksman »

@kast-yes, I meant to unvote in that other post.
unvote, Vote: orto-scum

IGMEO zwet
still, though.
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Post Post #817 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:13 am

Post by zwetschenwasser »

Unvote; Vote: Ortolan
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Post Post #818 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:38 am

Post by Kast »

PREVIEW EDIT-
*Zwet's sudden vote is extremely scummy. Ort is at L-1. The day barely started and Looker hasn't even posted anything. I think we still have more to talk about before anyone ends this.*

@Ace-
I've been tossing this around, still not completely sure if this is the right way to handle this but here goes:

We should only have 3 plagues in circulation (unless someone is lying).

If you did NOT use your plague card on Night 1, I think you should say so (NOT who you targetted, unless you are having some MAJOR changes of opinion...which you'd need to have a really good reason for).

Come Day 3, if we see ANY plague deaths, we know we are in one of two situations. Either one of the three plague owners lied about using their plague OR someone lied and has a plague card but didn't claim it (could be anyone who did not pass a plague card). Potentially, we could narrow that on Night #3 and help us catch guaranteed scum on Day 4.

Unfortunately, without lynching scum and one successful doctor OR two successful doctor protections, going to Draft #3 would mean a town loss.

ALSO NOTE:
Given that we lynched scum, the chance of a bonus NK is practically zero. There is no longer any need to enforce passing NKs (though it doesn't hurt to continue to monitor and/or pass them).
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Post Post #819 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:38 am

Post by AceMarksman »

ORT IS AT L-1!! be careful, town.
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Post Post #820 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:40 am

Post by AceMarksman »

Bah, ninjad.

No, I didn't use my plague.
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Town:5/2/0/1
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Post Post #821 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:42 am

Post by Kast »

Oh...guess the day hasn't barely started...feels like that for me...

Still, I think it is too soon to end the day now so please nobody else place a vote on Ort without discussing with the town first.

In fact.

UNVOTE


I fully intend to revote for Ort, but for now this is a buffer against "accidents".
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Post Post #822 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:42 am

Post by Kinetic »

AceMarksman wrote:ORT IS AT L-1!! be careful, town.
lol. Its funny, if I were to hammer ort it'd be a bus if he comes up scum and opportunistic scum if he comes up town.

I think I'll abstain from voting until I read day 1.
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Post Post #823 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:46 am

Post by AceMarksman »

kinetic wrote: lol. Its funny, if I were to hammer ort it'd be a bus if he comes up scum and opportunistic scum if he comes up town.
I take it you had intent of hammering ort?

Suspicion doesn't come solely from hammering. Had kast quickhammered, I wouldn't have thought him scummy for it, as he's played a very strong town game all game. You, on the other hand, would draw my vote for it.
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My record: W/L/T/A
Overall:5/2/0/1
Town:5/2/0/1
Scum:0/0/0/0
3rd Party:0/0/0/0
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Post Post #824 (ISO) » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:47 am

Post by Kast »

If you were to hammer in response to a warning against it without giving Ort a chance to say something AND without letting our replacement post something; you would be either really stupid town, or opportunistic (and possibly stupid) scum.

You didn't so it's moot.

You also don't seem so keen for the Ort lynch anyway. Please clarify your position as soon as you can.
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