Newbie 1024 -- Minimalist Mafia (Game Over)

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Post Post #775 (ISO) » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:48 pm

Post by Jay »

DLG wrote:I think one reason the other players got town reads on me is because that is the way I would do it as a townie. You might be wrong about your suspect, but that happens. As long as your reasoning is solid and confident, you will not be put under any undue scrutiny for it. Being too unsure leads to the impression that you are fence-sitting. That does end up looking bad.
I think I get it. People won't believe you if you don't believe yourself, I guess.

...Hey, did you set that up on purpose, where no matter what I still looked bad? Like, if I defended myself by saying 'I didn't vote for you anyway' it looks like fencesitting and is still scummy? If so, bravo - that is quite good play.
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Post Post #776 (ISO) » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:19 pm

Post by DLG »

@ Jay

I didn't have it all scripted exactly like that, but that was the basic idea I had in mind. I was hoping that by taking the initiative against you, I would be able to maintain the upper hand in any debates/arguments with you.

What impressed me the most about your play was that you stuck hard to your convictions and were on the right track with tying my scum motivated behavior to the slot I was in.

I hope to get a chance to play in another game with you. If fate smiles, maybe next time I'll be the townie trying to catch you as scum for true.

@ Neruz

Good advice! I'm really trying to work on balancing being concise and still getting all my points out in the thread. I think I did better this time around. For reference, see the post-game comments of Newbie #1025. Or, do an ISO on me in that one. That was my first game, and was quite instructive to me on several fronts.
If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.
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Post Post #777 (ISO) » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:58 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Mute wrote:The only reason I say this is a way for the mafia to discredit my claim via a NK. Say they decide to no-kill on N2, and I say "oh hey another successful block," that'd make them look bad. They could kill me and be on with their merry way, and the game'd go on as planned. They could kill someone and hope I don't predict their kill. This could either result in "oh hey Mute just made a wrong call," or someone could come along and say "well he didn't block the kill, maybe he false-claimed and the real doctor's too busy laughing at this fool to want to oust himself." Sure it comes down to luck, picking the right targets to save, but if I were scum it's something I'd consider as a gambit.
:twisted:

Most post-game commentary has been covered. The following sections will be aimed to helping everyone improve their play. I won't comment on Beefster, Lat, Mastin unless they want me to (since they've long left the stage of newbiehood). Please, don't take offense to anything that I say; I'm only doing this that you're an impressive crowd that have a future on this site if you want it (and Neruz can tell you this isn't just crap because I don't do this for everybody):

Mute: Your instinct is incredibly, incredibly impressive. You made two consecutive successful protects, and kept your vote on scum until you died. But as Trendall said, finding them is only half the battle. so you'll have to write a case somehow. Naturally, it's easiest to just look for all of the buzzword scumtells, like fencesitting and parroting, but the best thing to do is just write why someone would do what they were doing if they were scum. Don't rely on NKs too much, scum control who to kill and they might be manipulating you to think a certain way. And stay active, keep pushing your beliefs. You would have been much more of a threat to me if you posted more. As to what to post more, it doesn't have to be anything original. Just don't let yourself be ignored.

Trendall: Your playstyle reminds me a lot of mine when I'm town. You're terse, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Use that to your advantage. People are going to listen to what you're going to say because they don't have much to read, so say what's on your mind a bit more often. Particularly, I'm thinking of the Mute lynch. You shouldn't have let that happen. DLG and I wouldn't have been able to push that last day lynch through on you fought the Mute lynch a bit more. Also, when you're overswamped by walling, all you have to do is ask for a summary of the case on you. If they don't offer it, point out that it's just a bunch of rambling crap. You did manage to peg both scum and stick to your convictions, though, and that always deserves congratulations.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten

-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
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Post Post #778 (ISO) » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:58 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Neruz: You were one of the two people we actually ended up nightkilling, and you ALMOST lynched me D2. You're a very good player, and you had me pegged with the wall to such an extent where all I could do was lurk out of pressure. When I successfully did as much, you dropped me. Don't ever, ever do that. If you have someone extremely close to death and have the wind at your back and they suddenly slither away, you find them when they get back and you get lynched. Don't forget there are other people around you; I have no doubt in my mind that if you had tossed in a few posts with nothing but "more votes on Nacho", then I wouldn't have gotten away.

Jay: More confidence! You certainly covered yourself well enough; it was difficult making a case on you outside of how you voted, and none of the town really bought my or DLG's case on you. The problem with you is that you don't do more with your suspicions. I saw a few times where you questioned Mastin's posting, but you didn't vote or even follow up on it! Whenever you have a suspicion, it's usually not unfounded. So make sure it's heard, make sure you do something with it. Don't be willing to follow people so easily, either. The only person you have to trust is yourself; you'll learn this soon when the top townread you've been sheeping the entire game quickhammers at LyLo and posts "gg scumbuddy". I look forward to seeing the results of you following your convictions.

Concission: Not much to say here, but I will say that you at least hid your incorrect reads from the scumteam and got yourself killed, so that's damn good play for 11 posts.

Ghostlin: The Mute lynch Day 3 was a good decision on your part to push through; it was one of things that everyone was thinking and Mute would've been a liability in LyLo. You have picked up a useful skill in asking yourself questions (odd, right), but you're still missing a level of depth, and that's scum intention. You ask why the claimed doctor is still alive on Day 3, but ask why scum would clear Mute when they could clear a player with more towncred behind them. Ask yourself why someone with decently low activity during the game would suddenly snap into activity, that sort of thing. But you did a great job as a replacement, and you and Concission made a game that was threatening reaching a standstill interesting again.

DLG: :D. I've seen you play as both scum and town, and I've been impressed both times. I've noticed one distinct difference between your town and scum play though, and that's your use of indirect attacks. You tend to feel the waters in the town before making any significant votes, and this habit won't serve you well in circles of RC's level. Try to cut down on these attacks, or at least place a vote after them so you look more like a townie who honestly suspects someone.

RC: Don't forget that you're one of the people I will always replace for, and thanks for the smooth modding and putting up with my justified ribbing of your Texanosity.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten

-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
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Post Post #779 (ISO) » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:10 pm

Post by Lateralus22 »

Nacho wrote:I won't comment on Beefster, Lat, Mastin unless they want me to (since they've long left the stage of newbiehood).
So this is why I feel forgotten O_O

I wouldn't mind any comments, just sayin.
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Post Post #780 (ISO) » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:47 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

No problem, I can do that.

When you came into this game, you came in strong and made some good posts. The problem was that there wasn't a whole lot of purpose behind them. They weren't to build town cred because you didn't bother people about them, and they weren't to get someone lynched who would've been harder to lynch then Beefster. When you're replacing in as scum, you're in a damn powerful position to do whatever the hell you'd like. Whether people like it or not, replacements have a fair bit of free town cred they can burn. Next time, use your position to gain your advantage; come in roaring with that case on Kayi and save the Beefster lynch for later, or start pounding the shit out of your partner to try to get some towncred. But don't just weakly jump on the flavor of the month wagon because that's a waste of replacement power. Next, when you try to kill your top suspect during the night and they don't die, continuing the case on them is an acceptable path. But think about having a sudden change of heart, repositioning, taking away credibility from the inevitable doc claim that's about to arrive and try to attack another lynch. You need to take your scum team to the next level by thinking past self-preservation and instinctual play and start thinking "what's the best possible position I can put my scumteam in now?"



And to the rest of you, don't forget there's still a community out there!
I'd recommend playing a couple of Open games after this Newbie; you'll get to play with a different type of player, and the setups aren't really all that weird yet.
Don't forget that in three months you'll be able to jump into the moderator business.
You can PM me about anything, really. I'm still willing to answer questions you have about the game, even after this one ends. Hell, if you want to play mafia with a familiar face (and get beat again ;)), you can always PM me and we can /in for a game together (or I could replace into one of yours).
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten

-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
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Post Post #781 (ISO) » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:33 am

Post by Jay »

@DLG: Thanks for the compliments, and the suggestions, and everything. Yeah, that'd be pretty cool if we did get to play a game like that. It'd be fun to see how it'd turn out.

Also lol at the scum slip fiasco.

@Nacho: Noted. I'm already gonna keep in my the mind the self-confidence thing, but the agreeing with people too easily is new to me, and I'm glad you brought it up.

Hm, I never thought I'd be thanking both of my scum suspicions.
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Post Post #782 (ISO) » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:43 am

Post by Lateralus22 »

Lateralus22 wrote:
M
hm, Neruz makes a good point.
A
ctually I've face a similar situation in two games.
S
o because of one of these game I feel if we do no lynch we should make sure everyone is here Asap.

T
hough I'm still totally cool with a Kayi lynch, we should spend the least amount of time needed discussing the no-lynch option. (
I
t'll clog up the thread hard core >.>)
N
either option is horrible.
Yeah, I was considering fake claiming cop with an investigation result on Mastin, I didn't decide if I wanted to fake claim Innocent or say I had a guilty.
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Post Post #783 (ISO) » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:46 am

Post by RedCoyote »

Y'all are making me blush. <3
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Post Post #784 (ISO) » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:47 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten

-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
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Post Post #785 (ISO) » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:21 am

Post by Mastin »

Lat wrote:heh. I was kinda annoyed you didn't read my C++ game, that was my favorite game where I actually broke my wall posting habit.
I looked at your wiki, and knew I wanted Mini 1024. But I needed an excuse to read something I had already read. :P

It had a lot of information.

So did 1020.

Fit well enough for me!

I also lucked out that you had no completed games as scum, 'cept for the Hydra game, and I don't consider Hydras to be part of the main; they're effectively an alt, and people play differently (most of the time) on alts.
Neruz wrote:The main trick to avoiding walls (i've found) is to read your post again after you're written it and carve off all the bits that aren't absolutely necessary.
Yeah, sometimes I do it, but I have trouble deleting stuff. Feels so unnatural, after putting in the effort to write it, that it should all disappear. It should be recorded, somehow, is how I naturally feel.

RC: Excellent modding job. ;)
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True to my word, I'm retiring. Totally not me. :P
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Post Post #786 (ISO) » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:06 am

Post by Kayi »

Hey guys. Sorry I became so unavailable so suddenly. Glad to know I was right on my two main suspects before I had to disappear, even though at the time it seemed odd that they could be a scumpair. Mastin not hammering Nacho that one time should've been (and kinda was) a massive tell, specially after many lectured Trendall on how "reluctance to hammer is scummy."

I learned a lot from this game and, when I'm not so busy, I'll be glad to play more. It was definitely a lot of fun while it lasted.
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Post Post #787 (ISO) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:43 am

Post by Vel-Rahn Koon »

Last post.
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