A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Nautilius]

MOLLIE THIS POST IS FOR YOU PLEASE READ IT I AM REACHING OUT TO YOU WITH THIS POST

Syryana hit his good stride in about #660, I think, and hasn't lost it since. His posts after that are fucking on fire and I feel the same dancing beat that he feels in my heart so you can take the townread as one of the reads I could probably bullshit pretty hard but the truth is that it's a matter of the heart and I trust the little blood pumping motherfucker.

ooba I'm not *as* sure about but I got a good vibe from him early and so am riding on that for a little while. His followup posts firmed up the townread, and I don't think that the wagon on him is very good. I think I explained it a little while ago and read hasn't changed much from then, so I could dig that up if you really want me to?

What do you think of Desperado's opening and could you answer the questions the nice man asked you?

((Also @ Messiah in general: Why did you note that m&m's #212 was null? I noticed you didn't do that with anyone else, so I'm assuming that post has some special importance in FF's heart or something?))

[Nautilius]

all stupidity is forgiven, yeah?

there's no stupidity to forgive.

[Eddard Stark]

I guess this is what you need to sing to become a Crow!

Day 1, Vc 22

PrideandJoy (1) -

Amrun

kanyeknowsbest (3) -

Andrius, ooba, PeaceBringer

elleheathen (1) -

kanyeknowsbest

quadz08 (3) -

Shadoweh, StupendousMan, Cephrir

Amrun (1) -

Tierce

ooba (4) -

Alfred Borden, quadz08, Goat on a Raft, PrideandJoy

StupendousMan (2)-

Tammy, Messiah Complex

Thor665 (3) -

Zdenek, Benmage, elleheathen

Goat on a Raft (1) -

Nautilius

Cephrir (3) -

Syryana, macmollie, Garruk Relentless

Alfred Borden (1) -

Thor665

Not voting (1)

- SafetyDance

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 1st of October at 17:05 EDT
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-10-01 17:05:01)
  
• Thor and Benmage are V/la

[Goat on a Raft]

Nacho, when we say "when Nacho incorrectly scumreads me, he's town", that's not to say "Nacho never correctly reads me". To be pedantic, technically you haven't produced an example that contradicts our statement but it's OK, we forgive you (and, like we say, there may well have been another reason why we put you down as town, just that we forgot what it was).

Believe you and me, this head is a little bummed that we're not picking up good scumreads that we can really attack. Initially there was a reluctance to push the boat out because our other head wasn't really caught up but at some point this head decided to just go for it but, er, still nothing. Trust us, when we find something we like, we'll go for it, and we're still looking because it is actually pretty boring to not have a vote we really care about at the moment. But for now we're getting townreads that stick out so we'll keep narrowing it down that way. There are probably meta examples of this sort of thing happening before somewhere but we can't be arsed to find them.

[Goat on a Raft]

By the way, Nautilus, what is your read on mollie?

[Nautilius]

Nacho, when we say "when Nacho incorrectly scumreads me, he's town", that's not to say "Nacho never correctly reads me". To be pedantic, technically you haven't produced an example that contradicts our statement but it's OK, we forgive you (and, like we say, there may well have been another reason why we put you down as town, just that we forgot what it was).

This is literally exactly how I wanted you to respond to that.

Trust us, when we find something we like, we'll go for it, and we're still looking because it is actually pretty boring to not have a vote we really care about at the moment. But for now we're getting townreads that stick out so we'll keep narrowing it down that way. There are probably meta examples of this sort of thing happening before somewhere but we can't be arsed to find them.

This also sounds better.

By the way, Nautilus, what is your read on mollie?

Town town town town town.

[Nautilius]

Andrius

elleheathen

Goat on a Raft (Channeldelibird/AurorusVox)

Messiah Complex (Desperado/Formerfish)

ooba

PeaceBringer

quadz08

SafetyDance
StupendousMan

Syryana

Thor665

Vote: Peacebringer

One more townread out of this group and it will be time to reboot. I can't wait!

[Garruk Relentless]

I gotta say, you got a bit more fire in you than most games of yours ive seen, nacho. I'm not sure what to make of this.

[elleheathen]

Especially when I do this:

VOTE: Thor

I don't think Thor is scum.

-f

Why not?

Why do you think he is scum?

-SSK

Because kittens.
Oh, you wanted a

serious

answer!
Because THE FEELS.
Oh, you mean you wanted an actual reason? Well dang! Here:

/interpretation

Spoiler:

The 'I'm a conftown Miller and Innocent Child basically.'

The claim.

The fakenameclaim.

The fact that he gets super defensive and derogatory that I would dare to suggest that the almighty Thor is scum when what I am actually doing is asking him for a reason to believe that his miller claim is legit and for a reason to think he's town -

and

I state this prior.

The sarcasm that doesn't always looks like sarcasm until it's later presented as sarcasm in the most sarcastic way possible - and this is only an issue because it feels like nothing he says can be taken at face value or believed, even if he

is

town.

The fact that even

if

his miller claim is legit it doesn't mean he's town. (And makes it a great gambit to make given that no other cop role can confirm his

alignment

. (And correct me if I'm wrong here because I'm not overly familiar with all roles but day cop, flavor cop, gunsmith, role cop, faction cop, tracker, follower, watcher, voyeur - none of these variations can confirm whether he is scum or not.)

If he's town, at best, he's anti-town that wastes drawing all of our peekaboo-power to him for a search to prove him town when he can't be proven town - and when it's unlikely that town would out themselves to prove he's anything but scum and even then, no guarantees unless they're chopping block material.

There are a number of reasons why this claim is wonky - I mean, considering alone how alignments came after roles, this could be a brilliant gambit. For example, it could be a miller/watcher/whatever else scum team and he's using this claim to draw our investigative roles to his scumbud so that they know who all those PR's are.

Yes, completely out-there speculation. No, probably not as easy as all that. Yes, good probability that I'm wrong. And yes, mostly gut. Take it with a grain of salt, if you like.

I think a lot of it stems from reading his scum qt's and the fact that this seems exactly the type of gambit he would try to pull off as scum - if just 'for the lols'.

And because I feel lucky.

[StupendousMan]

Sorry, still here. I will be gone most of today, but I'll post later tonight.

[elleheathen]

1= He's scum, 2= He's town

Original Roll String: 1d2

1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[elleheathen]

There you have it, folks!

[Nautilius]

I gotta say, you got a bit more fire in you than most games of yours ive seen, nacho. I'm not sure what to make of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZw2CB_Ir_w
I'm not the most consistent player in the world, meaning occasionally I get games where I'm off, and sometimes I get games where I have both feet firmly planted in the zone.

[Garruk Relentless]

Alright, so what happens if you get the fabled last town read? You go through the other half of the player list?

Props to Elle for using dice, I too subscribe to the theory dice are always right. Still wrong on Thor, though.

[Thor665]

Elle's case on me summed up.

He claimed Miller, thereby not allowing us to use a Cop to discern his alignment.
Therefore, since I find him hard to read because he's sarcastic, he must be scum.
Also, this is probably a gambit to out non-cops.
Y'know, because scum probably have something to help him with that.

I will ignore that he may have claimed Miller to help town by not having cops waste shots on him (something that, in reading so many of his games he always seems to feel happens.) and also that his sarcasm is a brutal and total playstyle tell from him...something I *also* should have been able to figure out if I looked at his other games like I said I did.

@Elle - what games did you look at where you got the vibe that sarcasm is remotely a tell on me in any way at all...and if you don't think it is, why is it part of your case on me? Me being hard to read for you is *NOT* actually a sensible scum case...sure, you can vote me over it, but at least admit how bad the case is when you make it and don't try to dress it up.

Whassup?

Oh, also, and in correcting you if you're wrong - with a Miller claim the following roles can all provide rather serious evidence about my alignment; gunsmith, role cop, faction cop, tracker, follower.
Neither Watcher or Voyuer can but...then again, they can't do so for anyone they target...though I suppose if they watched or Voyeured someone *I* targeted, then, again, they would help identify my alignment (since, y'know, Thor would have lied...y'know).
Flavor cop wouldn't help until and if I was forced to nameclaim...also known as 'the only way a Flavor Cop ever helps in a uPick' so it's meaningless because he's as effective versus me as versus anyone.
Yes, a regular cop could not help alignment identify me...because I am a Miller...which is the entire concept of Miller.
You might as well whine that a Cop doesn't help you find a Godfather

[Nautilius]

Alright, so what happens if you get the fabled last town read? You go through the other half of the player list?

We reassess. Some of those townreads have not passed the ABSOLUTELY TOWN zone yet, so they will again be put to the test and my real town core will have formed.

[macmollie]

MOLLIE THIS POST IS FOR YOU PLEASE READ IT I AM REACHING OUT TO YOU WITH THIS POST

Syryana hit his good stride in about #660, I think, and hasn't lost it since. His posts after that are fucking on fire and I feel the same dancing beat that he feels in my heart so you can take the townread as one of the reads I could probably bullshit pretty hard but the truth is that it's a matter of the heart and I trust the little blood pumping motherfucker.

ooba I'm not *as* sure about but I got a good vibe from him early and so am riding on that for a little while. His followup posts firmed up the townread, and I don't think that the wagon on him is very good. I think I explained it a little while ago and read hasn't changed much from then, so I could dig that up if you really want me to?

What do you think of Desperado's opening and could you answer the questions the nice man asked you?

((Also @ Messiah in general: Why did you note that m&m's #212 was null? I noticed you didn't do that with anyone else, so I'm assuming that post has some special importance in FF's heart or something?))

I did answer messiah! he asked me about syrlacious and I answered him and you didn't like my answer. trust me if I ignored desp he would be all up in here screeching through the roof. unsure leaning town mebbe on them. the opening looks like they were taking their time to coordinate their reads and posts.

not as happy with sylacious as you but he and tammy are married so that will sort itself out. still worried about thor I we are on like what page 30 and he hasn't mentioned the p word not once.

this:

By the way, Nautilus, what is your read on mollie?

bothers the ever living fuck out me on so many levels and I think I might vote them for that. there are like 4 players on this site that I truly fear when I am scum and I just want to be dead right then and there cos I know I have no chance in hell. you, fery, patrick and cdb. that goat people are asking you what your read on me is, is just outright awful. I am not kidding nacho, I don't think you understand how bad it really is.

I forgot to add mac to the spreadsheet so far he has just been winging it so we will be able to produce a list soon.

[Goat on a Raft]

Er, WTF? Mollie, this head has played with you once. What were you expecting from us exactly?

[Cephrir]

The 'I'm a conftown Miller

and Innocent Child basically.'

The claim.

The fakenameclaim.

The fact that he gets super defensive and derogatory that I would dare to suggest that the almighty Thor is scum when what I am actually doing is asking him for a reason to believe that his miller claim is legit and for a reason to think he's town -

and

I state this prior.

The sarcasm that doesn't always looks like sarcasm until it's later presented as sarcasm in the most sarcastic way possible - and this is only an issue because it feels like nothing he says can be taken at face value or believed, even if he

is

town.

Ceph's note: You have greatly oversimplified what she's saying here.

The fact that even

if

his miller claim is legit it doesn't mean he's town. (And makes it a great gambit to make given that no other cop role can confirm his

alignment

. (And correct me if I'm wrong here because I'm not overly familiar with all roles but day cop, flavor cop, gunsmith, role cop, faction cop, tracker, follower, watcher, voyeur - none of these variations can confirm whether he is scum or not.)

I would beg to differ that trackers and followers can say much about your alignment, since you performing a kill would be rather stupid at this juncture. But this point isn't important.

If he's town, at best, he's anti-town that wastes drawing all of our peekaboo-power to him for a search to prove him town when he can't be proven town - and when it's unlikely that town would out themselves to prove he's anything but scum and even then, no guarantees unless they're chopping block material.

There are a number of reasons why this claim is wonky - I mean, considering alone how alignments came after roles, this could be a brilliant gambit. For example, it could be a miller/watcher/whatever else scum team and he's using this claim to draw our investigative roles to his scumbud so that they know who all those PR's are.

Yes, completely out-there speculation. No, probably not as easy as all that. Yes, good probability that I'm wrong. And yes, mostly gut. Take it with a grain of salt, if you like.

I think a lot of it stems from reading his scum qt's and the fact that this seems exactly the type of gambit he would try to pull off as scum - if just 'for the lols'.

And because I feel lucky.

Elle's case on me summed up.

He claimed Miller, thereby not allowing us to use a Cop to discern his alignment.
Therefore, since I find him hard to read because he's sarcastic, he must be scum.
Also, this is probably a gambit to out non-cops.
Y'know, because scum probably have something to help him with that.

I will ignore that he may have claimed Miller to help town by not having cops waste shots on him (something that, in reading so many of his games he always seems to feel happens.) and also that his sarcasm is a brutal and total playstyle tell from him...something I *also* should have been able to figure out if I looked at his other games like I said I did.

@Elle - what games did you look at where you got the vibe that sarcasm is remotely a tell on me in any way at all...and if you don't think it is, why is it part of your case on me? Me being hard to read for you is *NOT* actually a sensible scum case...sure, you can vote me over it, but at least admit how bad the case is when you make it and don't try to dress it up.

Whassup?

Oh, also, and in correcting you if you're wrong - with a Miller claim the following roles can all provide rather serious evidence about my alignment; gunsmith, role cop, faction cop, tracker, follower.
Neither Watcher or Voyuer can but...then again, they can't do so for anyone they target...though I suppose if they watched or Voyeured someone *I* targeted, then, again, they would help identify my alignment (since, y'know, Thor would have lied...y'know).
Flavor cop wouldn't help until and if I was forced to nameclaim...also known as 'the only way a Flavor Cop ever helps in a uPick' so it's meaningless because he's as effective versus me as versus anyone.
Yes, a regular cop could not help alignment identify me...because I am a Miller...which is the entire concept of Miller.
You might as well whine that a Cop doesn't help you find a Godfather

Hey Thor- bolded are parts of elle's case you have just completely ignored while giving your smarmy-ass 'summary'. You are misrepresenting her pretty hard while also only responding to her weak points. I recognize that not all of these are things you can answer to and you've already addressed some of them, but this post of yours is essentially still lying.

elle is town.

[Cephrir]

here are a number of reasons why this claim is wonky - I mean, considering alone how alignments came after roles, this could be a brilliant gambit. For example, it could be a miller/watcher/whatever else scum team and he's using this claim to draw our investigative roles to his scumbud so that they know who all those PR's are.

This too, though it isn't a fantastic point.

[Thor665]

Hey Thor- bolded are parts of elle's case you have just completely ignored while giving your smarmy-ass 'summary'. You are misrepresenting her pretty hard while also only responding to her weak points. I recognize that not all of these are things you can answer to and you've already addressed some of them, but this post of yours is essentially still lying.

Oh, reeeeeally?

The 'I'm a conftown Miller

and Innocent Child basically.'

If she would like to say that she honestly believes I claimed Innocent Child I will respond to this.
Heck, if you would like to claim that I will also respond to this.
Step right up, I'm game, Thor will be smary to you for demanding he respond to derpy blather additions to a case

The fakenameclaim.

I did respond to this by pointing out it was fake.
I also think that the number of people calling Benmage silly for treating my claim of being Casso as serious shows that it was actually relatively clear it was a joke unless you were being rather odd about how you read my claim there.
Again - if either you or she would like to clarify why this was scummy as opposed to sarcasm that was treated as serious by a tiny minority of the game I will respond to whatever the scum part of the case is.
Man, I totally am dodging *brilliant* stuff here in misrepping her case on me as kinda dumb, aren't I?

The fact that he gets super defensive and derogatory that I would dare to suggest that the almighty Thor is scum when what I am actually doing is asking him for a reason to believe that his miller claim is legit and for a reason to think he's town -

and

I state this prior.

Kindly list for me all the ways I can prove my Miller claim is legit - I will then do them.
Kindly list for me all the ways I'm supposed to reassure someone that siimply because a player makes a Miller claim it doesn't actually make them either more or less inherently scummy (though I would suggest my claim has enough specifics in it and actual *ruling IN* of ways to investigate me that it's a pretty weak scum gambit if such as my intention.
Gosh, lucky I dodged addressing this...?

Ceph's note: You have greatly oversimplified what she's saying here.

That's oddly the common definition of "summary" with the added addition of "over"
We're still trying to figure out the parts I cut out that are worth a darn, but I'll address them anyway to help you feel safe.

I would beg to differ that trackers and followers can say much about your alignment, since you performing a kill would be rather stupid at this juncture. But this point isn't important.

I already explained that (and other errors) to her in my oversimplified response.
But, yes, good job noting that she's not actually thinking through what she's saying...which was my point.

I think a lot of it stems from reading his scum qt's and the fact that this seems exactly the type of gambit he would try to pull off as scum - if just 'for the lols'.

I did address this.
I actually flat out stated to her that it didn't look like she had read my games at all.
You've been in *one* game with me and seem to understand already that I am sarcastic...so why do you think she missed it after looking at game*s*?
And, if all she did was look at scum QTs...then I don't think she then has any right to make a value call on my play except insomuch as awareness that I would be willing to pull a gambit...which is, y'know, something so few scum players are willing to do...being known for not fakeclaiming most of the time...yes.

elle is town.

Probably so.
Doesn't mean I shouldn't point out that she doesn't know which end of a shotgun to hold though, is it?

here are a number of reasons why this claim is wonky - I mean, considering alone how alignments came after roles, this could be a brilliant gambit. For example, it could be a miller/watcher/whatever else scum team and he's using this claim to draw our investigative roles to his scumbud so that they know who all those PR's are.

This too, though it isn't a fantastic point.

Really?
But she's town man, you aren't supposed to point out to her that she's derpy...like Thor did...and you got defensive about...by pointing out other derpy things she said...and having issue with me not addressing their derp that altogether still means nothing...?

Huzzah?

Want to sheep me now?
It will be a better use of your time.

[Thor665]

Unless you think Alfred looks town - if so, let me know.

[Thor665]

Er, WTF? Mollie, this head has played with you once. What were you expecting from us exactly?

Mollie actually doesn't know, but she'll make up some unsupported conclusions in her head and then claim them as meta evidence against you.
Time to move away from the trainwreck that i annoyed I haven't demanded we policy lynch her yet (because that means...something alignment wise for me...?) and just sheep me.
I promise good things with a dead Alfred.

[Cephrir]

The 'I'm a conftown Miller

and Innocent Child basically.'

If she would like to say that she honestly believes I claimed Innocent Child I will respond to this.
Heck, if you would like to claim that I will also respond to this.
Step right up, I'm game, Thor will be smary to you for demanding he respond to derpy blather additions to a case

I should have bolded 'conftown' as well. You dropped the fact that she suspects you for the overconfident attitude entirely from post 764 when it was clearly a significant element.

The fakenameclaim.

I did respond to this by pointing out it was fake.
I also think that the number of people calling Benmage silly for treating my claim of being Casso as serious shows that it was actually relatively clear it was a joke unless you were being rather odd about how you read my claim there.
Again - if either you or she would like to clarify why this was scummy as opposed to sarcasm that was treated as serious by a tiny minority of the game I will respond to whatever the scum part of the case is.
Man, I totally am dodging *brilliant* stuff here in misrepping her case on me as kinda dumb, aren't I?

I have zero problem with your actual actions with regard to this, but again, it's a point she wanted addressed that you pretended didn't exist. Pointing out it was fake is useless, she's aware it was fake and doesn't seem to like the way you went about that. I'm not saying this case is blowing the game wide open, I'm saying I don't like the technique you used to dismiss it. I don't see the town motivation in ignoring half of it and representing the case as worse than it actually is by dropping parts of it.

The fact that he gets super defensive and derogatory that I would dare to suggest that the almighty Thor is scum when what I am actually doing is asking him for a reason to believe that his miller claim is legit and for a reason to think he's town -

and

I state this prior.

Kindly list for me all the ways I can prove my Miller claim is legit - I will then do them.
Kindly list for me all the ways I'm supposed to reassure someone that siimply because a player makes a Miller claim it doesn't actually make them either more or less inherently scummy (though I would suggest my claim has enough specifics in it and actual *ruling IN* of ways to investigate me that it's a pretty weak scum gambit if such as my intention.
Gosh, lucky I dodged addressing this...?

The thrust of this point has nothing to do with your miller claim, it has to do with your attitude.

Ceph's note: You have greatly oversimplified what she's saying here.

That's oddly the common definition of "summary" with the added addition of "over"
We're still trying to figure out the parts I cut out that are worth a darn, but I'll address them anyway to help you feel safe.

Brilliant deduction.

Whether these points are incredible or not is irrelevant to the fact that 764 has no purpose except to misrep the case and continue trying to make everything about your miller claim.

I think a lot of it stems from reading his scum qt's and the fact that this seems exactly the type of gambit he would try to pull off as scum - if just 'for the lols'.

I did address this.
I actually flat out stated to her that it didn't look like she had read my games at all.
You've been in *one* game with me and seem to understand already that I am sarcastic...so why do you think she missed it after looking at game*s*?
And, if all she did was look at scum QTs...then I don't think she then has any right to make a value call on my play except insomuch as awareness that I would be willing to pull a gambit...which is, y'know, something so few scum players are willing to do...being known for not fakeclaiming most of the time...yes.

So you're saying you wouldn't? Not that I think this is a gambit even if you're scum.

elle is town.

Probably so.
Doesn't mean I shouldn't point out that she doesn't know which end of a shotgun to hold though, is it?

You're allowed to say a case is bad. You're not allowed to do so via pretending half of it doesn't exist.

here are a number of reasons why this claim is wonky - I mean, considering alone how alignments came after roles, this could be a brilliant gambit. For example, it could be a miller/watcher/whatever else scum team and he's using this claim to draw our investigative roles to his scumbud so that they know who all those PR's are.

This too, though it isn't a fantastic point.

Really?
But she's town man, you aren't supposed to point out to her that she's derpy...like Thor did...and you got defensive about...by pointing out other derpy things she said...and having issue with me not addressing their derp that altogether still means nothing...?

Huzzah?

Want to sheep me now?
It will be a better use of your time.

If I was going to sheep someone, it sure as hell wouldn't be you.

[Tierce]

Excuse me as I snipe in from the sidelines.

Thor665, who can't read obvTown and obvscum to save his life, is asking to be sheeped on wagoning Empire.

I may need a minute to catch my breath after all that laughter.


This is not a newbie game, Thor. I'd hope you had learned so from ADWD, but apparently notl "Because beard" is a kind of argument that goes nowhere with a playerlist of *actually competent* and somewhat experienced players who realize your charisma isn't nowhere near as capable or competent as you like to make it out to be. Misrepresenting people is not gaining you any favors, either, and the sad part is that you do it regardless of alignment.

I need to (gasp, gosh Tierce) actually read the game, but a bit of thinking last night made me realize this is not a vote I want to bother with on D1 because ~reasons~ and because Tierce likes being cryptic and oh look ball ball ballballball.

UNVOTE: Amrun