Newbie 661 - GAME OVER

[slayer645]

As I see it we ether have 2 very bad town players Hate and spooky, and two really good scum pretending to be town.

or two really bad scum players who gave themseves away d1.

or some cobanation of the first two.

Between Haterade attacks and spooky's reaching I think at least one of them is scum, possibly both its the only thing that makes sense to me at this point.

[Nto]

Sorry I was away for the weekend. I didn't realize that time counted against me.

At this point I don't know who to vote for. I am really interested to hear what spooky has to say since he seems to be the prime target.

Haterade has made no sense to me so far. But I don't know if that really makes him suspicious or not. He is at this point the only one I see vehemently defending spooky.

I don't have solid feelings for anyone else one way or the other yet.

I think I am going to reserve my vote until I hear what Spooky has to say.

[Kairyuu]

@Nto: Yay! Nto's back

I have a sneaking suspicion that Spooky isn't planning on coming back, or else he would have responded to our calls for explaination days ago.

I wouldn't classify Haterade as vehemently defending anyone, as he hasn't made any assertion that he was willing to (or capable of) back up with anything concrete.

@Slayer: I'm almost positive that Spooky is scum, but his reaching is the least of my worries right now. I'm more focused on his vote hopping and then disappearing when challenged on it.

Haterade however I can't get a read on, as he hasn't done anything concrete yet. I am suspicious of him because of his not backing his posts with evidence, but I don't want to say he's scum because he hasn't actually given off any scum tells yet.

@STD: I just thought of something. Judging from your reaction you might have interpreted my use of NK as No Kill, rather than Night Kill as I intended it. I was assuming a Night Kill on N1, not a failure to kill.

[Save The Dragons]

@STD: I just thought of something. Judging from your reaction you might have interpreted my use of NK as No Kill, rather than Night Kill as I intended it. I was assuming a Night Kill on N1, not a failure to kill.

Thank you. That makes so much sense now. My bad...I should have assumed NK was night kill

[DynamoXI]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Spooky isn't planning on coming back, or else he would have responded to our calls for explaination days ago.

Thats what Im starting to think. I mean there is also a good possiblity he has not been able to access the internet over the weekend, but its already monday so idk what the holdup is. It could be possible that he

is

scum and by waiting this long to provide an explanation its giving us more time to second guess/ switch votes/ect. Or anything else.

[Macavenger]

Checking in. Mostly waiting for Spooky to say something, and the case Haterade said he wanted to type up.

[Haterade]

OK, before I get to responses, let me address why the cases against Spooky are dumb.

And then there's Spooky. He is by far the scummiest player to me thus far. He first voted STD because STD placed a random vote in the random voting stage. That alone would only get him a few scum points in my book. However, he then uses a rather scummy tactic of using post times to justify vote hopping from STD to Dynamo, putting him at L-2. I think he was reaching in an attempt to jump on the newly formed wagon. The combination of jumping on a random vote, reaching horribly to 'post times' of all things, and vote hopping lead me to

Vote: Spooky

First, note that this is the 40th post of the game and everyone is still in random voting stage. Hell, at that point, I don’t think I posted at all outside of confirming that I got my role – to put this in other words, there really isn’t that much content.

The entirety of this case though is just total hogwash. Here are the criteria:
1) Spooky voted for someone because they voted for someone in the random voting stage.
2) Spooky uses posting times to justify a vote switch to someone else.

Both of these justifications for voting are pretty dumb, especially in the early game. I think spooky acknowledged that sooner or later (although I could be wrong and imagining things). But that’s all it was. Dumb reasons for voting for someone early in the game. Pretty much everyone does it – and I’m not talking about the random voting stage – because everyone tries to reach in order to escape the random voting stage. Dumb votes by a newbie in his first game I do not consider to be scummy, however people who ‘punish’ those who do make stupid votes early in the game are. Kairyuu, I’d consider you opportunistic in this regard – you’re trying to create a case out of nothing that’s there.

I do however think spooky was reaching in post 34, in fact most of his posts have been reaching so far, and the fact that he was the first on to suggest bandwagoning dynamo makes him seem the most suspicious to me at this point.

“Bandwagoning.” Bandwagoning on a dumb case doesn’t make it a better case.

Biggest suspect so far for me is Spooky. Jumping on STD for the random vote could have been the same mistake slayer made, but Spooky pushed it a lot harder. More importantly, his attack on Dynamo is completely baseless. Even aside from the fact that using time to justify it is pretty nebulous at best, why is defending against the second vote on him scummy? I don't see any justification for Spooky's vote here, which just happens to position him on the then-largest bandwagon.

More bandwagoning, except the interesting thing here that I’d like to note is that Macavenger is trying to make it seem like he’s built a separate case on Spooky instead of simply agreeing with the posters above. This is a good scumtell, and I’m going to analyze Macavenger’s future posts to elaborate on this as the game goes along.

I still want to say a couple more things and hear them before I type up my case a little bit more. To put this differently, it’s 11:30, and I’m ready for bed. Post coming tomorrow.

[Haterade]

hey mod, can you please edit the above post to fix my quote tags? thanks.

[Save The Dragons]

o.O

Your analysis is decent, and I would have respected you so much more if you had said this instead of deciding to quasi-ad hom people.

While I'm reluctant to think that Kairyuu is scum, I am suspicious of the other two you mentioned.

Out of four in-game posts, only one of Macavenger's posts actually contains content, which I believe is the worst out of everyone (except Headbuddy).

Checking in. Mostly waiting for Spooky to say something, and the case Haterade said he wanted to type up.

This post basically says, "I'm here, but I won't provide content." No content = no scumhunting = no help = lurky = scummy.

Unvote Vote: Macavenger

If I had to guess a partner/backup, I'd probably choose slayer.

Mod: We need

1. A vote count
2. A prod/replacement for Spooky
3. A replacement for Headbuddy

If we don't get this game moving then we're going to be up shit creek without a paddle.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm V/LA for a bit, moving back into my apartment this week, plus school starts monday. Not sure when I'll be able to post next.

That said, I prodded Spooky and headbuddy. I will check back on Wednesday to see if they have posted. It would help if a player would pm me if they post, to make my job easier.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Second Vote Count of Day 1:

Spooky - (Kairyuu, slayer645, Macavenger)

Macavenger - (Save The Dragons)
DynamoXI - (Spooky)
Save The Dragons - (Haterade)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Yea, Flay's doing pretty good as list mod, except for the fact that we have a shortage of ICs and Mods for newbie games, and he has been cockblocking the new mod/mentor plan for the last 6 months.

[Kairyuu]

Ok. I am extremely irritated now. I just spent the last two hours typing up a post and then it gave me a login page when i hit submit. I have to go to work now but I will attempt to recreate it when I get back.

Heres the general gist:

1. Address Haterade's attack on the Spooky case.
2. Address Haterade's accusations of my opportunisticness (if thats even a word).
3. Comment on Haterade's suspicions of Slayer and Macavenger.
4. Question Haterade's resoning (I liked this bit the best ).
5. Adress STD's suspicion of Macavenger.
6. Question STD's reasoning.
7. Ask Macavenger to post his thoughts
8. Ask Slayer and Dynamo if they know each other outside of the forum (I have reasons to think so, but it has no weight regarding the game. I'm just curious). You two can answer while I'm at work if you want and I'll explain my reasoning when I get back.
9. Offer everyone cookies (not really).

[DynamoXI]

Ask Slayer and Dynamo if they know each other outside of the forum (I have reasons to think so, but it has no weight regarding the game. I'm just curious). You two can answer while I'm at work if you want and I'll explain my reasoning when I get back.

To answer your question, I don't know slayer outside these forums (Im pretty sure I dont haha). We are in another mafia game together but other then that I don't think we have ever talked to each other before this game, unless I have a horrible memory.

[Headbuddy]

vote:nto

[slayer645]

8. Ask Slayer and Dynamo if they know each other outside of the forum (I have reasons to think so, but it has no weight regarding the game. I'm just curious).

love to hear what your reasioning is as I have no clue.... but no this games the first place I've run into dynamo on or off the net.

[slayer645]

ok headbutty posted and its nothing but a vote with no substance, its a bit late for random voting by now isn't it?

[Save The Dragons]

vote:nto

Nice of you to show up, I guess. I'll let the mod know.

[Kairyuu]

Ok. I'm back from work, starting on the big post now. Before I do that I'll just explain my odd question. It was actually the mini theme you are both part of. I noticed that you were both signed up for the same mini theme at the same time as you were part of this game. Just thought it might mean you knew each other before joining this site.

As I said before, I was just curious, it holds no weight with me in regards to this game either way. Thanks for responding to the stupid question I couldn't help asking.

[Kairyuu]

@Haterade: I would first like to thank you for finally posting some content, even if I disagree with most of it. I will also remove my HOS on you because you have finally provided what we have been asking you for.

You started with this:

First, note that this is the 40th post of the game and everyone is still in random voting stage.

I have to disagree with you on this point. Even assuming that some of the people who were active at that point were voting as if it was the random voting stage, Spooky was not one of them. He even stated:

I didn't random vote.

I voted for Save the Dragons because he didn't have a reason for his vote.

Therefore, to Spooky, it was not the random voting phase because he was justifying his votes.

Now onto what you claim that the case against Spooky actually

is

.

The entirety of this case though is just total hogwash. Here are the criteria:
1) Spooky voted for someone because they voted for someone in the random voting stage.
2) Spooky uses posting times to justify a vote switch to someone else.

1. Point one is spot on. This is what made me look a bit closer at him.
2. The post times are not as important as the fact that he was vote hopping in order to get on the beginnings of a bandwagon. The post time usage is merely an example of reaching, which isn't all that suspicious on its own.
Now for what you missed.
3. The vote hopping, which I mentioned in number two.
4. The fact that, as soon as he was challenged, he disappeared from the game completely and has failed to respond to calls for explanations.

Now to the next paragraph. I would first like to point out that Spooky did not, in fact, acknowlege anything, because as soon as he was accused, he stopped posting.

So I'm opportunistic? Based on your reasoning, it's possible, but not likely. But that is only if you assume that I have no basis for my argument, which I disagree with. And even assuming that I originally was reaching somewhat (I don't consider quoting three scummy actions in four posts reaching) Spooky incriminated himself further by not responding when questioned, so

he

obviously thought that my argument had decent backing.

Now to your argument against Slayer. You say he is bandwagoning. How can he bandwagon when there is no wagon to begin with? There was only one vote at that point.

And now for Macavenger. You find him suspicious because his post made it sound as if he had developed a case against Spooky on his own, even though it had already been stated. This is an odd thing to say when most people would consider someone scummy when all they do is follow the crowd and

don't

try to provide their own take on things. Also, I just reread his post, and his case against Spooky seems rather original to me, even though it uses the same general points.

And now to my favorite part. I get to point out an extremely interesting thing that I noticed in your case against Macavenger. You said that you consider it a major scum tell when someone uses another person's argument and tries to make it seem original (I can see where you're coming from but I don't think its entirely true). According to your own criteria, this case is even weaker than the case against Spooky. You see one thing, in one post, and use it to say Macavenger is scummy. I used three things, over the course of four posts, and added a fourth thing due to the lack of subsequent posts, and you called it stupid and weak.

I must ask this question then: Why is your argument against Macavenger valid while mine against Spooky isn't, even though mine has more backing, shows a trend, and features a more widely accepted scum tell? (Note: I am not discounting your argument, and will even go so far as to place a

FOS: Macavenger

in addition to questioning him at the end.

@STD: You make a good point. One post out of four with any content does smell a bit scummy, but in my opinion it isn't enough to warrant a vote, just a FOS and a question or two.

Now for my question to you: Why is Macavenger scummy enough to warrant a vote when Haterade has done virtually the exact same thing and you think he's town (this last one was the only one so far with anything other than 'you guys are all stupid, and so are your arguments')?
I'm not at all suspicious of you, I just want to know your reasoning on the matter, as it strikes me as slightly quirky.

@Macavenger: Haterade seems to think that you took my argument and tried to make it seem as though you came up with it on your own. What's your take on that? Also, could you provide your opinions on the events that have occurred since you voted for Spooky?

[Nto]

Nice to hear from you Headbuddy. Did I do something to make you think I'm scummy or is that vote just for asking you what you thought?

[Haterade]

Vote Kairyuu

, I've heard enough. Large post with content coming up soon. I would have tonight, but my two year old suddenly decided to terrorize the entire house while Mrs. Haterade was away at Book Club, and little Haterade tends to trump posting longwinded posts that take a good half hour-hour to type up. Tomorrow should be good, she tends to tire herself out the next day after she makes it her goal to lower the value of our home.

[Haterade]

clarification: "long winded post" basically is a large response to Kairyuu and why I think he is scum as well.

[Save The Dragons]

Even though Haterade posted a lot of "this is dumb," those posts, no matter how unhelpful, told us something.

Macavenger has been sitting off the side and watching things, not giving opinions on anything.

I'm a little less concerned about Macavenger and more worried that we've been playing 2 players behind, and I'm looking forward to what headbuddy will contribute.

[Kairyuu]

@Haterade: Very well. Do your worst. I will explain myself the best I can. I'm surprised no one considered me a suspect sooner. I haven't exactly kept a low profile.

@STD: That's all I was looking for, just needed to see your reasoning. Thank you.

@Headbuddy: Care to post some content? Or to explain your vote? A vote unaccompanied by reasoning at this point in the game doesn't make you look all that great.

[Kairyuu]

Sorry for the double post, but am I right to expect that you will have a response to the question I posed to you in this upcoming post Haterade? Because calling me scum doesn't explain why Your argument is valid basd on the same criteria that mine is invalid.