Micro 713: 5p Vengeful (Endgame)

[Infinity 324]

What do you think about 61?

I see his issue with 36 and think it could be scummy, but I don't agree with his issues with 38 or 46. I think he's reading into them too much.

[Infinity 324]

I do still dislike the question in 27, it is a leading question with a hidden premise and I think it could potentially 'trap' a townie into saying something that appears scummy. But I don't think your intent was to do that.

I see what you mean, the question was badly worded.

[Tenshii]

I don't think ASP + Vij and ASP + Mort would interact the way they did if they were a scumteam together

[Vijarada]

Sorry what's up getting prodded in a vengeful aaaayyyyyy. I kind of disagree with the MF push still. I think he came into the game and made posts totally different from what was going on before and I think that's town.

I'm kind of allright with voting for infinity, I reckon. I think right now he's just been asking questions for a while? And trying not to make a push for like a while. I don't agree with lynching him for ASP association though, because tenshii could still be scum and also because we could lose if he's town and he hits another town. So, we should be a bit careful.

[Infinity 324]

I'm asking questions and not pushing because I'm not getting reads

[Infinity 324]

Vij do you agree with 77?

[RadiantCowbells]

ASP is 11 hours from being force replaced >:[

[A Simple Plan]

Which is crap because I haven't been prodded a single time.

@Tenshii, re: 77: how do you come to that conclusion?

@Vij, re: 78: what you're saying is, you're hedging on Inf, and are against voting Mort?

@Inf, re: 79: are those questions helping at all?

[Infinity 324]

Not really although I still have questions to be answered

[RadiantCowbells]

This is 5p vengeful I shouldn't need to prod people

[MortFeld]

I don't think ASP + Vij and ASP + Mort would interact the way they did if they were a scumteam together

This is so general to the point where it's almost meaningless.

I'm kind of allright with voting for infinity, I reckon. I think right now he's just been asking questions for a while? And trying not to make a push for like a while. I don't agree with lynching him for ASP association though, because tenshii could still be scum and also because we could lose if he's town and he hits another town. So, we should be a bit careful.

Holy moly this is bad. You are shading Infinity for kinda limply asking questions and not pushing anyone? Yet this very post contains a good amount of trepidation towards pushes in general. The second part of this could be said about any lynch - it's Vengeful, lynching town D1 very often leads to an immediate town loss. This is always true and makes me think you are just saying things to say them.

Vij do you agree with 77?

Do you? This is a trick question, btw, because of the nature of 77. But you can answer it if you want Vij to.

Not really although I still have questions to be answered

Which ones other than 80?

ASP 82 feels well intentioned but 61 is scummy as fuck.

[Vijarada]

@Vij, re: 78: what you're saying is, you're hedging on Inf, and are against voting Mort?

Yeah, I was saying I disagreed with the push on Mort, although I could be convinced. And I said I was looking at inf as my strongest scumlean at that time.

Re: whether I agree with 77 obviously I'm town so the first half is true, and I think Mort is town as well. As to whether the interactions make it impossible for ASP/Mort to be a scumteam, I don't think that's relevant to what my thoughts are right now. And as I said, Tenshii's push to lynch because of these early associative tells, I'm very wary of.

[Infinity 324]

Do you? This is a trick question, btw, because of the nature of 77. But you can answer it if you want Vij to.
In post 83, Infinity 324 wrote:
Not really although I still have questions to be answered

Which ones other than 80?

I agree with 77 but don't believe in it that strongly.

I just realized tenshii hasn't answered why you are scum but yeah I don't have any other outstanding questions.

What's your overall read on ASP? Why do you scumread 61?

[Vijarada]

Re: Inf's questions

Post 14: Why would you want to vote yourself in RVS?
Post 18: Why don't you believe his answer?
Post 23: Why would you want a quickwagon on yourself in this game though?
Post 25: Why is it dumb that people are reacting to stuff and trying to get reads on page 1?
Post 27: Why won't that help us form reads?
Post 30: Why won't that help us form reads?
Post 34: Vij, why didn't you say that it was a joke in 16. ASP, what's your read on vij?

Post 66: Why is mort scum?
Post 68: Why am I scum?
Post 71: And why can't ASP be partners with anyone else?
Post 80: Vij do you agree with 77?
Post 87: What's your overall read on ASP? Why do you scumread 61?

You do realize, mort, what I was saying there right? He never once provided anything from the answers to those questions except more follow-ups. And they're clearly not an attempt to get reads, he said in 79 he's not getting any. Just trying to look busy.

[Infinity 324]

I see what you mean, but I can only get good answers if people give me them. I want to at least hold people to positions and get discussion going and the questions have helped to do that, it's just that people haven't said anything suspicious or particularly insightful as a response to the questions so I can't get reads off of that.

[Infinity 324]

I like that post though, and I'm feeling ASP for town, so tenative PoE scum of tenshii and mortfeld.

[MortFeld]

What's your overall read on ASP? Why do you scumread 61?

Overall read: I think he's scum.

61:

@ASP

Why do you have Vij as "gut lean town" and why would you be willing to lynch Mort?

As much as I disagree with any town having a mindset of "maybe I should self-vote", my gut tells me that scum wouldn't be that ballsy in a vengeful. And whether it was preconceived or not, it got the game moving and gave us something to talk about. I may not agree with the mechanic behind it, but I don't think scum would've made such a move.

Extremely surface level. While I am annoyed at the fact that seemingly everyone but me conflates self voting and threatening to self vote, I don't scumread it. I do feel like this is a bit of a hokey explanation for a read though.

In terms of Mort, like I previously said, a lot of his posts were nothing more than fancy busy-work.

Seems to be a flavor of the game accusation.

Examples include 36 (just listing off responses to other posts)

The implication here is that my 36 will
1. not help other people sort me and
2. not help other people sort other people

i.e. that it is just a random collection of responses with no motion toward game solving. I really disagree with this and I really hate how flippantly he reduced the post to 'useless collection of responses'.

38 (asking a question and then offering his own answer to it)

I literally don't even do this and don't know what he's referring to so this is a misrep.

and after my post commenting on it, 46, specifically the first bullet, "I think I was talking about"... does he not even know what he was talking about? That further suggest to me that he was saying things to look active and engaged rather than to actually gain anything from what he was offering.

Or I often forget my specific thought processes when I have long stretches of time between posting and reading next. This is scummy because?

Yknow what, sure.

VOTE: MortFeld

Oh, what the hell! Why don't I just vote my scumread. Why not!

That's

what we're supposed to do.

[MortFeld]

You do realize, mort, what I was saying there right? He never once provided anything from the answers to those questions except more follow-ups. And they're clearly not an attempt to get reads, he said in 79 he's not getting any. Just trying to look busy.

What is this in response to? Like the implication here is that I misinterpreted something you said. What was it;I'm confused.

And they're clearly not an attempt to get reads, he said in 79 he's not getting any. Just trying to look busy.

This is poor. You can ask a million questions honestly trying to form reads and still fail to form reads. Doesn't mean you're just trying to look busy.

Your post 88 actually makes me feel better about Infinity. I disagree that he's just trying to look busy. I actually think you are.

[MortFeld]

I like that post though, and I'm feeling ASP for town, so tenative PoE scum of tenshii and mortfeld.

What do you like about it? It is an annoying post to me and possibly a scummy one.

Why are you feeling ASP for town?

[RadiantCowbells]

ASP and Tenshii are both in prod range.

Like idgi.

[MortFeld]

ASP and Tenshii are both in prod range.

Like idgi.

[A Simple Plan]

@Vij, re: 78: what you're saying is, you're hedging on Inf, and are against voting Mort?

Yeah, I was saying I disagreed with the push on Mort, although I could be convinced. And I said I was looking at inf as my strongest scumlean at that time.

Re: whether I agree with 77 obviously I'm town so the first half is true, and I think Mort is town as well. As to whether the interactions make it impossible for ASP/Mort to be a scumteam, I don't think that's relevant to what my thoughts are right now. And as I said, Tenshii's push to lynch because of these early associative tells, I'm very wary of.

"Obviously"? I don't see anything obvious. If anything, it's just based on the gut feeling that scum wouldn't theorize over self-voting. What about Mort is town to you?

If Inf is your strongest scumlean, who's the partner? Does that make Mort your strongest townread?

*Irrelevant material removed*

Examples include 36 (just listing off responses to other posts)

The implication here is that my 36 will
1. not help other people sort me and
2. not help other people sort other people

i.e. that it is just a random collection of responses with no motion toward game solving. I really disagree with this and I really hate how flippantly he reduced the post to 'useless collection of responses'.

38 (asking a question and then offering his own answer to it)

I literally don't even do this and don't know what he's referring to so this is a misrep.

and after my post commenting on it, 46, specifically the first bullet, "I think I was talking about"... does he not even know what he was talking about? That further suggest to me that he was saying things to look active and engaged rather than to actually gain anything from what he was offering.

Or I often forget my specific thought processes when I have long stretches of time between posting and reading next. This is scummy because?

Yknow what, sure.

VOTE: MortFeld

Oh, what the hell! Why don't I just vote my scumread. Why not!

That's

what we're supposed to do.

Re:36: TBH, that's what it is, is a collection of responses. It doesn't get anything done. It's there to make it

look

like you're getting things done.

Re:38: Then what do you call the below?

Here's how I see what happened so far:
vij makes a joke about self-voting, or at least he says it was a joke.

Do you think it was only a joke, or was it a joke + also purposeful?

Me and ASP ask why he would self-vote, he answers because he wants a reaction and a quickwagon.

This would imply that it's not only a joke, no?

Re:46: So what you're saying is that you don't pay close enough attention to know what your reads are and why from post to post? If you're not keeping up with where people stand, yes, it's definitely scummy. If it's too long between posts for you, make notes somewhere, or reread the whole two pages to figure out where your thought process was at the time, but assuming that's what was going on shows the lacking level of effort I expect from someone who just wants to create a mislynch.

Re:Voting: I waited to form a more solid read because I didn't want a quickwagon based around something fleeting. My vote was because I decided evidence was sufficient; notice how nobody had voted until that point?

[RadiantCowbells]

ASP gets mercy. Seeking replacement for Tenshii.

[RadiantCowbells]

-=-

[RadiantCowbells]

-=-