Micro 545 | Slavic Music Mafia | Endgame

[Bins]

It was more of a joke.
Who wants to be trapped in a room with someone they don't like being around?



...

That said, I am kind of against it.

[Bins]

I don't see why I should be restricted to talk about someone for no reason. I think it suffocates the game.

Though, I don't have a lot of experience with this mechanic (obviously, I didn't even understand fully how it worked, as I've already broken it. Oops). Maybe I'm just not following your thought process? I just don't see the benefit. I feel restricted. That's it.

[Bins]

To be perfectly honest, I was going to say I probably wasn't going to use the mechanic at all this game. Unless 100% necessary.

I'll play along, but I think your logic about this, and about the vote on me is entirely backward. There is no honest way you could think I'm scum from that post. That would be thinking upside down.

I can understand the current room I'm in more than any other room in the game. There is a valid reason for it.

[Bins]

VOTE: Espe

[notscience]

VOTE: espe

[Bins]

Why do I feel a soft breeze?

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.03 Sir Gagi - Vorsicht Balkan

This song is mostly in German but the singer is Serbian diaspora. My german isn't very good.

Vorsich Balkan, Balkan übernimmt
Hast du damit ein Problem, aus welchem Land wir sind?
Welches Blut in uns fließt, welche Hautfarbe wir haben
Unser Herz ist aus Gold, deswegen heb' ich diese Fahne
Sagen kann ich vieles, doch ob du es verstehst

Caution Balkan, Balkan takes over
Do you have a problem with what country we are from?
With which blood flows within us, with what colour is our skin?
Our hearts are of gold, therefore I raise this flag
I can say much but what will you understand of it

---

lynching

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

The_Jester

(L-3): wgeurts, Postie

Espeonage

(L-3): Bins, notscience

Bins

(L-4):

notscience

, Espeonage

Apricity

(L-4): herrcombs

Not Voting

(3): Apricity,

Bins, Espeonage

, Tere, The_Jester

get a room

It takes 3 votes to get a room.

notscience and The_Jester

(R-1): The_Jester, Espeonage

Not Voting

(7): Apricity, Bins, herrcombs, Postie, Tere, wgeurts, notscience

Post restrictions

Spoiler: Current post restrictions: (may not talk to or about each other in public, may vote and unvote normally)

Bins and notscience (expired on 2015-10-30 08:00:00)
Espeonage and notscience (expired on 2015-10-30 08:15:00)
notscience and wgeurts (expired on 2015-10-30 08:15:00)
notscience and Postie (expired on 2015-10-30 08:15:00)
herrcombs and notscience (expired on 2015-10-30 10:00:00)
Espeonage and Postie (expired on 2015-10-30 18:30:00)

Spoiler: Infractions

Bins [1/3]

Deadline: (expired on 2015-11-11 14:00:00).

Let me know if there are any problems with the VC, or if you have music genre requests (rap, pop, ballads, folk, sad, happy, angry, gay, purple, a specific country, etc. I've got about 77 bands lined up to choose from!)

Mod notes: I’m using dice tags to pick which song so don’t read anything into it.
Tere is V/LA until Thursday afternoon.

[notscience]

plot I had a roomvote on the last page

I can't find it? Jester and Postie were voted for you/jester to have a room and then espy, postie, and you voted for espe/postie so they got a room, and then espy voted for you/jester again so you're back up to 2 people voting for you? If I've missed something, help. --P

[Espeonage]

@75: Why even though. Like what point is there to joking about it?
@76: Ok see this right here, it's discussion, and I'll wager it's going to be much more useful in people's minds throughout the game than rvs stuff. And I don't get what is restricting about it. Ok you can't talk about someone for a short period. It's two irl days. But you can talk to them behind closed doors which is really really useful. These are neighbourhoods where you aren't restricted by mod wifom. That makes them incredibly useful. If two people are town reading each other it functions like a mason QT which is epic. If anything it brings about wonderful opportunities for scumhunting in a one on one environment and lets people drill others for a spell when they can't call for public aid. There is so much potential int he mechanic I don't understand how limiting yourself to the ingame thread is useful at all.
@77: Yes I understand you and notti having the room. Munch of this stuff was discussed prior to the game starting (as in before role PMs) and I knew notti wanted a hood with you from the outset. I also expressed interest in using them for 1v1s with people, if any exist, that disliked the way I play, specifically so I could be obtuse to try and infuriate people in to becoming easier to read. I feel like this style of play is strengthened by the pure 1 on 1 environment because things need to be taken without context that other players can provide. Yet another reason why I think varied hoods are great.

As for the plan, it could work with anyone, the point being we as town take someone out of the game and then are able to come back later on and draw up our responses on how we view that player after seeing them in a one on one situation. Then that gets contrasted in the game thread when they can talk again. I really like this approach as it lets us still have a functioning game where not too many people are held up for a couple of days, while providing a wealth of resourrces people can draw from, especially later in the game after we have flips. Day one with this mechanic is actually crucial to how the game splits open later on. This game has potential t be solvable as soon as tomorrow based entirely on relational tells.

Then you have the situation where as chance would have it we might pick a person who is actually scum. Then awkward conversations come up because of scum potentially not being able to talk to one another. (Another thing that twinged me about you slipping up just before)

I really don't see why this mechanic shouldn't be abused. And I feel that not using it offensively against scum is a really big mistake.

[Bins]

@75: Why even though. Like what point is there to joking about it?
@76: Ok see this right here, it's discussion, and I'll wager it's going to be much more useful in people's minds throughout the game than rvs stuff. And I don't get what is restricting about it. Ok you can't talk about someone for a short period. It's two irl days. But you can talk to them behind closed doors which is really really useful. These are neighbourhoods where you aren't restricted by mod wifom. That makes them incredibly useful. If two people are town reading each other it functions like a mason QT which is epic. If anything it brings about wonderful opportunities for scumhunting in a one on one environment and lets people drill others for a spell when they can't call for public aid. There is so much potential int he mechanic I don't understand how limiting yourself to the ingame thread is useful at all.
@77: Yes I understand you and notti having the room. Munch of this stuff was discussed prior to the game starting (as in before role PMs) and I knew notti wanted a hood with you from the outset. I also expressed interest in using them for 1v1s with people, if any exist, that disliked the way I play, specifically so I could be obtuse to try and infuriate people in to becoming easier to read. I feel like this style of play is strengthened by the pure 1 on 1 environment because things need to be taken without context that other players can provide. Yet another reason why I think varied hoods are great.

As for the plan, it could work with anyone, the point being we as town take someone out of the game and then are able to come back later on and draw up our responses on how we view that player after seeing them in a one on one situation. Then that gets contrasted in the game thread when they can talk again. I really like this approach as it lets us still have a functioning game where not too many people are held up for a couple of days, while providing a wealth of resourrces people can draw from, especially later in the game after we have flips. Day one with this mechanic is actually crucial to how the game splits open later on. This game has potential t be solvable as soon as tomorrow based entirely on relational tells.

Then you have the situation where as chance would have it we might pick a person who is actually scum. Then awkward conversations come up because of scum potentially not being able to talk to one another. (Another thing that twinged me about you slipping up just before)

I really don't see why this mechanic shouldn't be abused. And I feel that not using it offensively against scum is a really big mistake.

1) ... did you really just ask me what the point of making a joke was?
2) Mod WIFOM? What? Okay, no, I'm seriously confused. I don't see why I need to talk to someone behind closed doors unless I'm confident that they're town. Which no one is at this stage in the game. I see the benefit of them but I don't see why spamming the game with them at the start is in any way helpful. In the first few pages I want to see every one talking about everything and I want every one to have the ability to talk about everything.
3) Man, I don't even like 1v1s.

[Espeonage]

Not only did I not get first post, but I didn't even make the first page.

Damn.

VOTE: Apricity

Just before this gets lost. Why did you not have any comments on the plan when you came in?

[Bins]

I really don't see why this mechanic shouldn't be abused. And I feel that not using it offensively against scum is a really big mistake.

The thing is you have no idea who scum is right now.

I get it, it's a really important feature IN THIS SETUP.
Especially because if you can go and talk to someone and be like "Yo, I'm going to protect _____" tonight, so if I die, you know that this person could have potentially been the nightkill target.

BUT NO ONE IS TOWN-READING ANYONE that strongly yet.
This is actually clogging the game thread with room votes rather than actual votes that will push the game forward.

[Espeonage]

I really don't see why this mechanic shouldn't be abused. And I feel that not using it offensively against scum is a really big mistake.

The thing is you have no idea who scum is right now.

I get it, it's a really important feature IN THIS SETUP.
Especially because if you can go and talk to someone and be like "Yo, I'm going to protect _____" tonight, so if I die, you know that this person could have potentially been the nightkill target.

BUT NO ONE IS TOWN-READING ANYONE that strongly yet.
This is actually clogging the game thread with room votes rather than actual votes that will push the game forward.

Ok no, firstly, in the rules scum can target themselves. So that line is categorically wrong, nothing is gained at all from discovering the NK target.

And why do people need to be townreading others to make use of the hoods. Drilling in to people, where there is no outside aid is an amazing scumhunting resource for people that read off emotions and reactions. As well as people that like to read via relationals, both to town and to scum.

And it doesn't clog the thread, it's one line and not difficult to see what it is.

[Bins]

1) "nothing is gained" man not everything has to be black and white, some info is gained. Yeah, sure, there's a chance scum targeted themselves but there will be a more likely explanation in each case. Occam's razor.
2) Yes, yes, I got that. But again, why do we have to limit people from talking about some people immediately? I don't feel the need to drill people right now. I feel the need to talk about everyone about my reads.
3) IT'S BEEN OUR ONLY DISCUSSION THUS FAR. 95% of the thread has been room and setup talk.

[Bins]

WE HAVE SOME IN THE GAME THAT CAN'T EVEN TALK HOW THE HECK IS THAT BENEFICIAL RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT.

[Espeonage]

1. Occam's razor has nothing to do with it. Occam's can even be used to prove scum will always shoot at themselves. Scum goal is to spread misinformation. Assumption is scum kill town. Scum is able to shoot themselves without dying. Simple action that results in scum's goal. tada.
2. We keep these hoods for the entirety of the game. They aren't limited. Only the talking about others has a time limit.
3. Which I think is awesome. People can pick apart our views. Look at motivations behind our stances and go from there. Which I personally would find much more useful than sifting through random votes until someone decides to put in a real shot at someone else. We've effectively skipped the least informative section of the game which is a wonderful use of our time.

[Espeonage]

They can talk. In the hoods. They are not restricted. They can actively talk to every other person in the game. I do not see the issue here. And people are back after 48 hours in a game with deadlines much longer. This is only an issue if people are going to be unable to talk about someone else close to deadline.

[Bins]

1) that's... not how it works
and) I'm arguing with you, but I wouldn't want to get a room with you. I want other people to comment and interact with this discussion.

[Espeonage]

I actually want a room with you, but not yet, there is a bunch more that needs to be reacted to before I purposely make you mad in a PT.

And yes, that is how it works. If scum have an aim, occams says any action they take is to better that aim.

[Bins]

Scum's aim is to kill town.

[Bins]

so the simplest way would be to NOT SHOOT THEMSELF IN THE FACE

[The_Jester]

Wouldn't scum want to perpetuate discussion too? You know, to look town?

Imo the town has more motivation to do so, especially at this stage. Scum don't want to make any mistakes. The more you talk, the more you're prone to slipping up so I think it's more beneficial for scum to lurk early and wait for the situation to unfold.

This brings me to another point, which is my opinion on this whole Esp-Bins argument.
I gotta say I'm more on Esp's side on this (although not entirely)- I think that creating 1v1 discussions and then comparing them is a superior way of hunting mafia's slip ups.
However, there should be a balance- we can't just create 36 rooms at once cause it would be way too chaotic. I think we should do this methodically- as in, take one person, create him/her rooms with every other player and let them talk (like we began doing at the beginning with notscience). In the meantime, the rest can have an open discussion.

Phone posting, sorry for crap formatting.

[Espeonage]

so the simplest way would be to NOT SHOOT THEMSELF IN THE FACE

Everyone is a bodyguard. There is next to zero chance scum are going to kill who they target. If anything, the person they target has the least chance of dying out of everyone because they can't protect themselves.

[Espeonage]

Wouldn't scum want to perpetuate discussion too? You know, to look town?

Imo the town has more motivation to do so, especially at this stage. Scum don't want to make any mistakes. The more you talk, the more you're prone to slipping up so I think it's more beneficial for scum to lurk early and wait for the situation to unfold.

This brings me to another point, which is my opinion on this whole Esp-Bins argument.
I gotta say I'm more on Esp's side on this (although not entirely)- I think that creating 1v1 discussions and then comparing them is a superior way of hunting mafia's slip ups.

However, there should be a balance- we can't just create 36 rooms at once cause it would be way too chaotic. I think we should do this methodically- as in, take one person, create him/her rooms with every other player and let them talk (like we began doing at the beginning with notscience). In the meantime, the rest can have an open discussion.

Phone posting, sorry for crap formatting.

This is exactly why it is setup like it currently is. The other room fits a particular aim of mine coming in to the game.

[Bins]

so the simplest way would be to NOT SHOOT THEMSELF IN THE FACE

Everyone is a bodyguard. There is next to zero chance scum are going to kill who they target. If anything, the person they target has the least chance of dying out of everyone because they can't protect themselves.

Man, if I was scum I would not shoot myself.