Android: Netrunner: The Living Card Game

[hitogoroshi]

Yeah, you have enough card draw that 2x Stimhack should be fine. Scrubber, Femme, and Cyberfeeder are all cool candidates to replace it.

I'd try to get that third Clone Chip in. Atman at paid speed is extremely good.

[mykonian]

man if you're gonna run Herrings run Fetal AI too. AI + Herrings is the funniest goddamn thing.

good point, I'll give that a go soonish.

Stimhack is also more or less a lategame card, though I don't know how much it does for you in an atman deck. The idea is that you don't spend a lot of money on the actual breaking there. If you are thinking about economy, isn't cyberfeeder as hito mentioned not the better option? recurring creds are great if you use them often.

[TheButtonmen]

Stimhack + Self Modifying code is incredible, tutor out an Atmans and set it for the needed value mid-run using nothing but the Stimhack fake money!

[TheButtonmen]

Spoiler: Rough Idea for HB

Identity:
Haas-Bioroid: Engineering the Future (Core)


Total Cards: (59)
Agenda (12)
Accelerated Beta Test (Core #55) x3
Director Haas' Pet Project (Creation and Control #4) x1
Efficiency Committee (Creation and Control #5) x3
Mandatory Upgrades (What Lies Ahead #11) x2
Project Wotan (Creation and Control #6) x2
False Lead (A Study in Static #80) x1

Asset (19)
Adonis Campaign (Core #56) x3
Cerebral Overwriter (Creation and Control #9) x1
Director Haas (Creation and Control #10) x2
Edge of World (Cyber Exodus #53) x1 ■■
Eve Campaign (Humanity's Shadow #92) x2
Jackson Howard (Opening Moves #15) x3 ■
Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus #55) x2 ■
PAD Campaign (Core #109) x2
Encryption Protocol (Trace Amount #29) x3

ICE (19)
Eli 1.0 (Future Proof #110) x3
Heimdall 1.0 (Core #61) x2
Heimdall 2.0 (Creation and Control #15) x1
Howler (Creation and Control #16) x3
Ichi 1.0 (Core #62) x3
Ichi 2.0 (Creation and Control #17) x1
Janus 1.0 (What Lies Ahead #12) x1
Viktor 1.0 (Core #63) x3
Viktor 2.0 (Creation and Control #19) x2

Operation (7)
Oversight AI (A Study in Static #79) x2 ■■
Hedge Fund (Core #110) x2
Green Level Clearance (A Study in Static #70) x3

Upgrade (2)
Awakening Center (Creation and Control #21) x2


Total Agenda Points: 24

Influence Values Totals -
Haas-Bioroid: 68
Jinteki: 2
NBN: 5
The Weyland Consortium: 4

[hitogoroshi]

I did a Netrunner thing!

[TheButtonmen]

Rootkit - Seems fairly pointless as it requires you to sink a large number of clicks to weaken your own board state, if you're in a position where you can devote 3-4 clicks to removing your own virus counters and they're still forced to purge then you've won the game with or without Rootkit. It's also a resource rather then hardware which means you're running the risk of it and all the clicks you invested into it being destroyed via tags.

Stasis - Interesting effect, not too weak or too strong. My only issue with it would be the 2 MU because that's going to make it hard to fit datasucker(s) or things such as medium in play after you play your ice breakers.

Panopticon - I love everything about this card.

Corporate Appointment - You don't list a cost so I'm going to assume it costs zero and even at that price I'm iffy on it. You're investing 2 clicks and a card to make 3-5 creds while rezzing a piece of ice for free, which seems like an awful trade. How would this card interact with ice with additional costs such as Archer or the Illicit ice?

Tarantula - Not sure I'd want to use it in any of my decks but it's cool and interesting.

Raptor - I'm going back and forth on this one. It's 5 to play and takes up 2 memory and can only effect a certain type of ice each turn which means you're still going to need other icebreakers and given that it's not super efficent I think I'd rather be running an Atmansucker package or the Anarch Icebreaker Suite (Yog, Mimic, Corroder along with special orders). However this is a great early game icebreaker and the ability to effect multiple types of ice has proven to be quite good.

Signal Booster - See Tarantula.

Open Sourcing - Boring and unoriginal, I really dislike this card. Personal Workshop already exists and making a much worse varient just to get around the 4 influence cost is a cop out.

NEXT Obsidian - I'd like this just because I'd like to see more NEXT ice printed but it actually is also well designed illicit ice.

Cambridge City Branch - Seems very powerful and it attaching to the R&D isn't really a downside as you're already forced to invest a fair amount of resources to protecting it. This just increases the risk for corp / reward for runner for running the R&D or further punishes runners who can't hit the R&D. I'd much rather have seen it attached to the archives or HQ so it forced corps to dedicate more resources to protecting a lower priority area in return for an extremely powerful effect. All in all it's an interesting card and idea with a really bungled execution.

Wall of Fog - Very interesting, not sure how good but I'd have preferred that it required a successful run on a central server because that would help control where the runner is running and match the Jinteki flavour better (See Jinteki: RP).

Vladivostok City Grid: Odd card is odd.

Alpha Release - Really dislike this card as it's a 3:4 that really doesn't have a drawback and the ability to fast advance a 3 pointer off a Sansan / Biotic labour is terrifying.

Slipstream - Interesting idea for ice, punishes the runners who can't break it but hurts the corp when they can. I actually think the effect could have been strengthened to gaining 3 creds and it would still be a fine piece of ice.

The I Team - Cool design, it really captures the feel of NBN.

Insider Trading - Hell no, this is effectively a 3:3 because it can instantly score another 2:3. If it was forfeited to get the effect or could only give each card a maximum of one advancement counter maybe?

Facial Recognition Database - Overall I like the idea of this card but not the execution. Adding a click to the cost is HB's gig not NBN, It would feel much more NBN if it increased the credit cost of removing tags (see Red Herring vs Strongbox).

Quantum Labor - Like with Open Sourcing I dislike this design because it's just weakening an existing card to get around the Influence cost. This effect belongs to HB, leave it there.

[TheButtonmen]

Overall if I pretended Alpha Release and Insider Trading weren't in it I'd give the Datapack a 6/10. Good ideas but executed poorly is my overall impression of it.

Panopticon is the winner in my opinion as it combines an interesting effect, a good power level and nails the factions flavour spot on. The I team takes second place for largely the same reasons.

[TheButtonmen]

Off the cuff redesign of two of the cards.

Spoiler: Rootkit

Anarch 4 Influence

Hardware

Cost 3

When the Corporation purges viruses they most trash the top four cards of their R&D as an additional cost.

Spoiler: Corporate Appointment

Criminal, 2 influence

Cost 2

Event – Double

As an additional cost to play this event, spend [click].

Make a run After the run is completed rez a piece of ice ignoring all costs. If it was successful gain credits equal to twice its rez cost.

[hitogoroshi]

Insider Trading - Hell no, this is effectively a 3:3 because it can instantly score another 2:3. If it was forfeited to get the effect or could only give each card a maximum of one advancement counter maybe?

I guess the writing still wasn't clear so I rewrote Insider Trading again. Yes, it's always been the intent that it moves only 1 token to a card, up to 3 cards.

The funny thing about Rootkit is, half of people think it's worthless and half think it's stupidly overpowered. Think of it this way - 2 clicks to grab tokens from Suckers, then you run the really difficult to hit R&D and throw those suckers on Medium. Leave a dead Imp on the field, then if the Corp rezs an upgrade with a high trash cost, throw one on the Imp.

Yeah, probably putting Alpha Release was a mistake. All of the NBN agendas seemed to be super strong and I picked the weakest looking one.

And yeah, Appointment is 0, good catch. As far as additional costs, it does not sac an agenda with Archer, since you ignore all costs, but it does give Corp a BP with Illict Ice. The trade may seem awful, but that's because it's for getting in a Remote specifically - you rez a giant fucking thing on a Central, you suddenly have 8c out of nowhere to score that last Agenda.

[TheButtonmen]

Math behind Corporate Appointment rework is you net X credits where X = -2 + ice cost which means it's normally worse then a dirty laundry as it costs 2 clicks and gives the corp resources but gives criminals another make a run event, a source of burst income and fits the short term focused flavour of criminal.

[TheButtonmen]

The funny thing about Rootkit is, half of people think it's worthless and half think it's stupidly overpowered. Think of it this way - 2 clicks to grab tokens from Suckers, then you run the really difficult to hit R&D and throw those suckers on Medium. Leave a dead Imp on the field, then if the Corp rezs an upgrade with a high trash cost, throw one on the Imp.

Maybe make it something like when Rootkit enters play move all virus counters in play to Rootkit and it has spend 1 cred, hosted virus counter: Put a virus counter on something you control (keeping the protect from purges clause too)?

[gorckat]

I might get in on this...

I greatly enjoyed playing Magic on MWS back in the day (making skins and card backs). Dabbled in the legit version before tiring of it and the game in general a couple years ago.

Are there MS tourneys/events/play nights? Is there any kind of organized scene?

[TheButtonmen]

Not sure about MS events but Scumchat features Shanba, BV, Nexus and myself who all play it it. There is also a pretty developed organized scene (not on magics level though).

[Sudo_Nym]

So I'm trying to get back into this; I notice that OCTGN has drastically changed formats since I last played, and I had to mess around with the feed. We'll see how that changes things once I have time to actually play. I was screwing around, and I came up with this as a starter build:

Haas-Bioroid: Engineering the Future
Gila Hands Arcology x2
Accelerated Beta Test x3
Project Vitruvius x3
Efficiency Committee x3
Eve Campaign x3
Adonis Campaign x3
Ice Wall x3
Shadow x1
Rototurret x1
Ichi 1.0 x2
Ichi 2.0 x1
Viktor 2.0 x2
Viktor 1.0 x2
Eli 1.0 x3
Heimdall 1.0 x1
Enigma x2
Rework x3
Hedge Fund x3
Trick of Light x3
Biotic Labor x3
Archived Memories x2

So basically, I'm trying to use Trick of Light/Biotic Labor/Efficiency Committee with Archived Memories to score agendas from hand. In theory, I drop most ICE in front of the central servers, mainly R&D, put econ cards with light ice in a remote server, then score from hand. I'm trying Rework to protect Agendas in HQ that I can't score, just to make life difficult for the runner. I'm still working on a runner deck, though.

[mykonian]

why shadow? I think this is where someone like buttons would ask you if that one point isn't better spend our savior, the lord jesus. And you might want to free even more influence for him.

[Sudo_Nym]

Shadow is just a cheap ICE that works with Trick of Light, is all.

[mykonian]

oh, yes. But it's money ice they run through, and you kind of don't want them to run through you early on (because it would be nice to protect one agenda before the runner is set up) and you are HB so you'll have money.

It's a bit odd here.

[Sudo_Nym]

I don't really need to protect Agendas as much as others, since in theory, I'm not installing Agendas at all unless I can score them that turn. I think I'm only at 13 influence right now, though, so I can probably upgrade to something else.

[mykonian]

well, that and it seems you'd like jackson howard (jesus and a couple of other names), he helps with what a couple of operations try to do already. People quite like the card.

[TheButtonmen]

Proposed Changes:

Rework x3 -> Jackson Howard x3
Eve Campaign x3 -> Green Level Clearance x3
Viktor 1.0 x2, Heimdall 1.0 x1 -> Bastion x3
Viktor 2.0 x2 -> Chimera x2
Rototurret x1 -> Ichi 1.0 x1
Shadow x1 -> Hadrian's Wall x1

Rework -> Jackson = Rework is a zero cost which shuffles one card back in. Jackson is a zero cost which draws 2 cards for 1 click, forces the runner to waste a click running at him and then shuffles 3 cards back in.

Eve Campaign -> Green Level Clearance = It takes 4 turns for Eve to match the income of a Green Level which means unless you can create an inaccessible remote Green Level is almost always better (if your gameplan isn't going wide) and it also replaces itself with another card. It's also much more flexible as it's upfront cost is 80% smaller then Eve. Asset based econ is also much more vulnerable to R&D locking.

Viktor 1.0, Heimdall 1.0 -> Bastion = With the amount of Yog. 0 / Atman set at 3 seeing play these days Viktor's are actually pretty underwhelming. Heimdall on the other hand costs 8 and the runner can get through it without even using an icebreaker. Bastion forces them to either pay 3 credits to a Corroder or use datasucker tokens to get through.

Viktor 2.0 -> Chimera = Viktor 2.0 is extremely underwhelming, it costs 5 to rez and then is reliant on a trace 2 which means you need to spend a great deal more to get any value out of it. It also can be walked through by a runner simply spending 2 clicks. Chimera is a hard end the run and early game you simply make it whatever type your opponent can't interact with. It also has the added benefits of stonewalling an Atmans deck until they can find another copy and set it at zero.

Roto-turret -> Ichi 1.0 = This one is a matter of personal preference but Rototurret costs 4 to rez and has zero strength which means Mimic / Femme go through it without needing to pump or use datasucker tokens. Ichi on the other hand is 4 strength and even when their icebreakers can interact with it has three subroutines which need to be broken which makes it extremely taxing to run through multiple times (making it great ice for a central).

Shadow -> Hadrian's Wall -> Sometimes you want to keep runners out of a server, Shadow doesn't do that. Hadrian's can also be advanced for Trick of Light shenanigans.

Spoiler: Decklist w/ Changes implimented

Agendas:
Gila Hands Arcology x2
Accelerated Beta Test x3
Project Vitruvius x3
Efficiency Committee x3

Assets:
Jackson Howard x3 (1 Influence each)
Adonis Campaign x3

Ice:
Ice Wall x3
Enigma x2
Chimera x2
Eli 1.0 x3
Bastion x3
Ichi 1.0 x3
Ichi 2.0 x1
Hadrian's Wall x1 (3 Influence each)

Operations:
Hedge Fund x3
Green Level Clearance x3
Trick of Light x3 (3 Influence each)
Biotic Labor x3
Archived Memories x2

9 Jinteki Influence
3 Weyland Influence
3 NBN Influence

[Sudo_Nym]

I like it, but I don't think I can run Hadrian's Wall, here- Ice Wall is a Weyland card, so it's costing me 3 influence to run a set of them; which means that the build you gave me is at 18 Influence. I also want to point out that purpose of Rework is to protect Agendas in hand from runs on HQ, which Jackson Howard doesn't do. That said, Jackson Howard is almost certainly a better card all around, since it's letting me recycle my Biotic Labors and Trick of Lights.

Here's the runner deck I'm working on, if you want to offer criticism for that:
Noise
Sure Gamble x3
Dirty Laundry x2
Forged Activation Orders x3 [6 Influence]
Deja Vu x1

Grimoire x3
Plascrete Carapace x1

Corroder x1
Crypsis x1
Darwin x1
Mimic x1
Femme Fatale x1 [1 Influence]

Datasucker x3
Djinn x3
Imp x3
Medium x2
Parasite x3
Sahasrara x3 [6 Influence]

Armitage Codebusting x3
Daily Casts x2
Liberated Account x1
Wyldside x3
Aesop's Pawnshop x1 [2 Influence]

As you probably saw from the Corp deck, I'm not super familiar with the meta yet, but I think this is a pretty standard Noise deck. Wyldside is exactly the type of card I like, probably due to my MTG experience. I don't know how super necesssary Plascrete Carapace is- is Scorched Earth a thing still? That might need to be the second Deja Vu. I'm only running 1 because I had two spare slots, and I decided to split; with Darwin and Datasucker, I don't know how necessary recycling Parasites is.

[mykonian]

SE will always be a thing, I guess.

I am 90% sure you want cyberfeeders. They pay for installing crypsis/darwin, and they pay for making darwin stronger, and for breaking ice. Cyberfeeder/darwin is a combo I've actually seen outside anarch, so I think it's silly to pass it here.

It's a personal thing, but I don't like armitage here. You draw into two cards every turn, and have three left. In general, cards are good and most of you can ofload with sahasrara, cycling through viruses with aesops (which is why you might want another, which is classic I think) if you like. Armitage is too heavy on the clicks for too little benefit. There's simply too little time to use them. The same could be said for liberated account, but that one is fast, and you actually could reasonably play two liberated accounts in a match and have no trouble at all with your click management. Daily casts is good here compared to in other decks. One click, decent return on investment.

Personally I was impressed with gorman drip in a similar noise. 9/10 it's a 1 cred virus mill-aesops food, but in one of those 10 games corp didn't do their homework or the poor sod was jinteki, and tadaa, free money.

There are the obvious warnings: AI's are expensive, and darwin is no exception. They have more trouble working later on. Corps got action jackson, our lord and savior, and he's forcing noises playstyle away from what this deck does best, running 3 times in the whole game and winning off that. At FFG, they decided that was boring and they were right. So they send Jesus and saw it was good. In all seriousness, he's going to cause problems. There are decks that are good at running often and keeping a check on corp, wyldside does not do that. It makes economy a hard balance, it leaves little time for runs, and because there's mostly room for virus/AI's, those runs aren't that cheap either. Wyldside is being true to it's theme and is quite the handful in games. It's brilliant fun to play, but you are as much struggling with your own deck as with the opponents.

[Sudo_Nym]

I'm probably not taking Opening Moves into enough account- I'm mostly trying to figure out what's good by reading available article and tourney reports, and almost none mention Jackson Howard or Opening Moves so far. This will probably require rethinking.

Andromeda might be good- 9 cards to start implies that I'm spending my first turn playing 4 cards?

[mykonian]

Or you discard. And yes, she's rather good.

[TheButtonmen]

@Sudo:

I didn't include a full set of Hadrian's in the proposed list for a reason. Jackson also does protect Agendas in hand because he allows you to draw 2 additional cards to push you above maximum hand size which allows you to discard the agendas and then sacrifices himself to shuffles them back into your deck after forcing the runner to waste a run on either your archives or himself.

Re: Deck list - This is a tad more extensive but I'll explain the changes after.

Icebreaking Suite:

Out:

Corroder x1
Crypsis x1
Darwin x1
Mimic x1

In:

Crypsis x2
Femme Fatale x1

Programs:

Out:

Datasucker x1
Imp x1
Djinn x1

In:

Nerve Agent x1

Event:

Out:

Dirty Laundry x2
Forged Activation Orders x3

In:

Déjà Vu x2
Stimhack x2
Quality Time x3

Hardware:

Out:

Grimoire x1

In:

Plascrete Carapace x1

Resources:

Out:

Wyldside x1

In:

Aesop's Pawnshop x1
Daily Casts x1

Rationals:
Icebreakers - Noise is an identity that aims to win the game in a small number of runs rather then a great deal of runs at things like the R&D so you want icebreakers which are able to deal with any ice in the game and bully their way through any stack of ice. You also are reliant on a great deal of utility programs such as parasite / datasucker / imp / medium and while Djinn helps deal with the memory costs you still want as few icebreakers as possible. Crypsis is fairly cost efficient and can break all types of ice and Femme can be used to neutralize any single large piece of ice they may have.

Programs - You don't need a full set of Datasucker's or Imp's as you don't need multiples of each and you can tutor them out with Djinn or draw into them with Quality Time. You're also never going to want multiples of Djinn so I think it's more efficient to cut one to make room for Quality Time. Nerve Agent allows you to tear through a corps hand which means they can't hide agendas in their, forcing them to either discard or play them. It also can be tutored out by Dijinn / triggers Noise's passive.

Events - You're rarely in a position to make full value out of Dirty Laundry given how infrequently you'll need to be running and Forged is a card used for resource denial in decks which are constantly running / disrupting the corps economy which your deck isn't really geared towards doing. Deja Vu returns any two of your virus cards if you need to recycle them after emptying them / they're trashed or can recycle a Quality Time / Sure Gamble if you find yourself needing cards or credits. Stimhack is the perfect tool for forcing through a run and given this deck only needs to successfully run 4-5 times it's a perfect match. Quality Time is just extremely efficient, it helps you find the tools you need or provides a full hand of gas so you can keep milling away at their deck.

Hardware - You're never going to want multiples of

Djinn

Grimoire so I think it's more efficient to cut one to make room for Quality Time. You will however at times want more then a single copy of Plascrete and you'll need it fairly early in the game so I'd increase it to two copies.

Resources - You're never going to want multiples of

Djinn

Grimoire

Wyldside so I think it's more efficient to cut one to make room for Quality Time. Aesop's however is fantastic and allows you to sell off your Wyldside or Sahasrara after you're done with them. Daily Casts is just good and there was room so I bumped it up to a full set.

Spoiler: Proposed Decklist

Noise

Events:

Sure Gamble x3
Déjà Vu x3
Stimhack x2
Quality Time x3 [3 Influence]

Hardware:

Grimoire x2
Plascrete Carapace x2

Icebreakers:

Crypsis x2
Femme Fatale x2 [2 Influence]

Programs:

Datasucker x2
Djinn x2
Imp x2
Medium x2
Parasite x3
Sahasrara x3 [6 Influence]
Nerve Agent x1

Resources:

Armitage Codebusting x3
Daily Casts x3
Liberated Account x1
Wyldside x2
Aesop's Pawnshop x2 [4 Influence]