Newbie 1074(Game Over|Scum Win!!!)

[Robocopter87]

Reserved for votecount.

[Pine]

Pick not on he who can modkill thy ass.

You better believe I would. I wouldn't think twice.

[Nachomamma8]

Pine's crazy gambitting and overly aggressive demeanor paints him as town.

Silver, do you realize that you can simply unvote instead of voting No Lynch? Voting No Lynch is a vote for their to be no lynch during the day, Unvoting simply removes your vote from whoever you were voting before, and places it in a neutral zone that won't contribute to any lynch.

Vote: Hazard

[drewoftherushes]

Pine's crazy gambitting and overly aggressive demeanor paints him as town.

Silver, do you realize that you can simply unvote instead of voting No Lynch? Voting No Lynch is a vote for their to be no lynch during the day, Unvoting simply removes your vote from whoever you were voting before, and places it in a neutral zone that won't contribute to any lynch.

Vote: Hazard

Why the Hazard vote? Why does Pine's gambitting paint him as town?

UNVOTE: Pine
VOTE: Silver

Silver's just digging that hole deeper and deeper with recent comments. If you are town, silver, stop saying things that don't make much sense, because we need you to survive this lynching.

[Pine]

What gambitting? A gambit implies that I have something to hide, or a personal agenda to advance. The only agenda I'm trying to advance is the Town's, which

requires

thorough and unbiased investigation that targets everyone.

Why so eager to defend me, Nacho? If you're hoping that doing so will ingratiate me to you, while using terminology that subtly implies I have ulterior motives, you're mistaken.

Where've you been since we started, Nacho?

[Nachomamma8]

What gambitting? A gambit implies that I have something to hide, or a personal agenda to advance. The only agenda I'm trying to advance is the Town's, which requires thorough and unbiased investigation that targets everyone.

Gambits in this game are synonymous with traps. Sometimes gambits are lies, sometimes gambits are making something seem like something else. Good examples of gambits are claiming one-shot vig when you are two-shot so you can stop the mafia from killling you after you've used the first shot, drawing the nightkill by acting like a powerrole when VT, etc.

Why so eager to defend me, Nacho? If you're hoping that doing so will ingratiate me to you, while using terminology that subtly implies I have ulterior motives, you're mistaken.

Because you're town, and your lynch is stupid. Getting the lynch off you will get the lynch onto mafia.

Where've you been since we started, Nacho?

I've been gone, sitewide. You can verify this by clicking my name, pressing "search user's posts", then looking at timestamps.

[Pine]

Alright, you get a pass on the absence, then. I do not, however, follow how your explanation of gambits voids my refutation of your description of my activities. In all cases, by definition, a gambit implies some sort of deception, subterfuge, or manipulation. In line with the common-wisdom policy of lynching all liars, implying that someone as gambitting is casting suspicion on them, the existence of many pro-Town gambits notwithstanding. I would prefer you simply retract the label, as it implies something I don't think you meant.

[Hoppster]

I don't normally post at this time, but just a quick post to warn people about voting Silver. We don't want to hammer him before he claims, but there's an awful lot of people voting for him now. Silver, don't claim until you're at L-1 and somebody is willing to hammer.

[Silver1337]

Pine's crazy gambitting and overly aggressive demeanor paints him as town.

Silver, do you realize that you can simply unvote instead of voting No Lynch? Voting No Lynch is a vote for their to be no lynch during the day, Unvoting simply removes your vote from whoever you were voting before, and places it in a neutral zone that won't contribute to any lynch.

The way I learned it, once you vote, you have to either stick with your vote or vote someone else, not unvote. So yes, that was a misinterpretation. But I'm still sticking with my vote for Joe.

And yes, I agree with Nachos with the first statement.

[desiderata]

@Pine, someone asked me what I thought about you, and I just shared my thoughts. That they are the same as yours or other people's is not my problem.

@Nacho: how exactly do you know that Pine is town? From his loudness?

Why? Well, he always seems to counter everything I say. Although most of you are against me, he doesn't even take in consideration what I'm trying to say. Plus, he's been against me since pretty much my first post.

@Silver: Pointing at someone because they pointed at you does not make sense. Also, I was the first one to vote against you, and it was my first post. Granted, I was just trying to start a random BW, but it looks like the reasons why you voted joe would equally apply to me.

[Pine]

@Desiderata: I like how you cleverly took offense to the challenge put to you, while completely failing to engage the points made against you, and then continuing to regurgitate the opinions of others who posted before you, even my own suspicion against Nachomamma for defending me.

Step it up and work on some original analysis to contribute. We're in the big leagues now, if not an all-star game yet.

[Hoppster]

Dear me. I have the unfortunate feeling that we've already got a lynch.

This is by far the quickest lynch I've ever seen D1, and it is extremely unfortunate that it has come in a Newbie. Within 48 hours of game start, I believe...

Silver [5] - desiderata, Pine, 1joe60, Verbs, drewoftherushes

Egaddddddd. This is not good. >.<

@ Mod: Is there any way we could get leniency on this day due to it being day one and all and we didn't really even get time for a proper vote count?

Eh...

FWIW, I very much doubt that we'll get some kind of 'undo', but if we do, Pine, I'd like you to stop ignoring my post here.

[Pine]

I unvoted and changed it to Hazard, here. We're good. But I'd rather people switched off of Silver for now, too. He's sitting at #3 on my suspicion list, but speed-lynching with this kind of haste is...bad. Really not good. He's at L-1.

@Hoppster, regarding your post. Yes, I read it, but it was almost entirely statements, rather than investigatory analysis. Was there a question or challenge buried in there that I missed? I suppose the point about putting words in peoples' mouths was valid, and could use response. In hindsight, it appears I did mischaracterize your words a bit, for which I apologize, but whereas what I said was simply emphasis to make a point, Hazard completely misrepresented what'd I'd said. I'll quote it below:

@Pine
So you expect us to just get out of the way and play a game of Follow the Leader with you?

This was a gross alteration of what I'd said, and indeed entirely contrary to the point I have now repeatedly made regarding the necessity of people thinking for themselves.

In contrast, I made the mistake of presuming you thought a risky ploy to therefore be unlikely. The difference is quite significant, particularly with the fact that, once pointed out, I have apologized for the error, and Hazard seems to stand by it.

If you require further response, please clarify what you want.

[Pine]

It just occurred to me that this throws Drew's vote into the harsh light of suspicion, as at least some of the players in the game seemed to have thought Silver was at L-1, and Drew's vote would have been the ridiculously-early-hammer in that case.

What do you have to say for yourself, Drew?

[desiderata]

@Desiderata: I like how you cleverly took offense to the challenge put to you, while completely failing to engage the points made against you, and then continuing to regurgitate the opinions of others who posted before you, even my own suspicion against Nachomamma for defending me.

That's interesting. You should be happy to get agreement with your ideas - it suggests that they are not in your mind alone, but that there is actually support for them. I don't really care what you think, but you should know that your style of play is really disruptive. You have pretty much said everything there is to say about everything that has been said so far, and now we just need to make shit up to pass your muster? I don't think so. I'll say what I think, or I will shut up. If you want to play by yourself, you'll get your wish soon enough.

UNVOTE: Unvote: Silver

UNVOTE: Pine
VOTE: Silver

Silver's just digging that hole deeper and deeper with recent comments. If you are town, silver, stop saying things that don't make much sense, because we need you to survive this lynching.

@drew: Assuming we haven't yet lynched Silver, why were you this quick to up the vote count? And all the while saying that we "need him" to survive the lynch? That's pretty scummy in my book.

[desiderata]

Great. Just FYI, I didn't see Pine's post before mine.

[Robocopter87]

__________

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Vote Count

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1joe60 [1] Silver1337
desiderata[0]
drewoftherushes [0]

Silver1337 [3] 1joe60, Verbs, drewoftherushes

Verbs [0]
Pine [2] Hoppster, Hazard with a Glove
Hazard with a Glove [2] Pine, Nachomamma8
Hoppster [0]
Nachomamma8 [0]

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Not Voting

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No one.

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Amount to Lynch

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With 9 Alive it is 5 to Lynch.

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Deadline

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Midnight of March, 26^th, EST.

__________

[Robocopter87]

This votecount is right. To stop the confusion.

Don't put Votes in Spoilers. Put them where I can see them.

Continue.

[drewoftherushes]

It just occurred to me that this throws Drew's vote into the harsh light of suspicion, as at least some of the players in the game seemed to have thought Silver was at L-1, and Drew's vote would have been the ridiculously-early-hammer in that case.

What do you have to say for yourself, Drew?

In response to this and to Des: I knew I wasn't putting the hammer on Silver. TBH, I didn't realize I was putting him at L-1, either - I should have counted votes beforehand. I thought I was the 4th. But if voting for Silver is scummy, we have a lot of scum on our hands. Silver hasn't had a good answer for any of the questions we've put on him, except the voting "No Lynch" thing. I buy his explanation for that. Remember, too, that I defended Silver (to an extent) during the silly grammar debate.

@Des - I was telling Silver to start saying reasonable things and answering questions clearly and honestly if he is indeed town, because we want town to survive possible bandwagon lynches.

I hope that clears things up.

[1joe60]

@Drew - If you thought you were the 4th voter like you claim (which you were) then you would realize that you were putting him at L-1 would you not? 5 is needed to lynch, you thought you were 4th but didn't know you were putting him at L-1? Explanation please

[drewoftherushes]

I'm sorry I got the numbers wrong there. I thought I was 3rd. Five to lynch. My mistake.

[Nachomamma8]

I do not, however, follow how your explanation of gambits voids my refutation of your description of my activities. In all cases, by definition, a gambit implies some sort of deception, subterfuge, or manipulation. In line with the common-wisdom policy of lynching all liars, implying that someone as gambitting is casting suspicion on them, the existence of many pro-Town gambits notwithstanding. I would prefer you simply retract the label, as it implies something I don't think you meant.

I meant fully what I said, but you don't have to worry that I'm casting suspicion on you in any respect. You DID deceive silver into thinking that him tagging along an unreasoned vote after yours would be perfectly acceptable, did you not?
Keep in mind that in order for town to win, we cannot be open like books. We have some deceit of our own to do, deceit which requires pretty talented play, to be honest. After all, you wouldn't want to end up hurting the town instead of killing the mafia, right?

@Nacho: how exactly do you know that Pine is town? From his loudness?

And in addition, from the way that he's been approaching the game. I like it.
And mafia are never the first to think up of traps like the one Pine did.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Verbs

@Silver: IGMEOY, I strongly dislike players that do not actively attempt to scumhunt.

VOTE: Hazard with a Glove, Where is your other glove?

Why did you cast a random vote here instead of one on Silver?

My first point against you was because I said I dislike players that stall the game by not voting. You countered with “oh but I scum hunt by doing x, y, and z” and than the the no lynch vote happened. That did not help us hunt down scum at all.

No, you said that you said you disliked players WHO DIDN'T SCUMHUNT. He pointed out how he scumhunted, and you changed the point.

Are you going to continue stalling all game because even if you are town, that is only helping the mafia.

This is hypocritical. How is HE stalling the game when YOU are the one who isn't posting?

[Silver1337]

UNVOTE: 1joe60
He no longer seems too suspicious, and Des has a good defending post about Joe.
Honestly, I'm not sure whether Pine is Mafia or Town. Not voting for him yet though, since he has some pretty good points and I wanna listen to what he says

[Nachomamma8]

So, who are you looking at for possible mafia at the moment?