Would a roleblocked target know they were roleblocked?
Regardless of answer:
I still much, much, much prefer jan/rb to assassin/rb but the more I think about it I don't like daycop with either.
That's right. After a lock in, a player has their votes reset if they still have two votes out.ekiM wrote:What exactly is the procedure here? If a role gets 11 votes is it then "locked in" and everyone has one vote for the second role? Or?
A tracker would know due to lack of result, others roles wouldn't be told.SpyreX wrote:Would a roleblocked target know they were roleblocked?
An assassin would be told how many shots it has left to try.Rhinox wrote:Mod: would an assassin be told whether or not they lost an attempt after a failed attempt?
Still stand that this is the best option.ooba wrote:Vote: Daycop
Vote: Roleblocker
However, we should consider the roles we might have got. I do not think scum would have giv us two hiders. In fact chances of a single hider are low too since both Weak doc and hider have a powerful informational component to them - aka "Basically a cop who gets killed if he targets the guilty" role + chances to stop a NK. I would have personally gone with 2 Vigs, 2 JKs. The vigs reduce the informational component of the JKs since no-kill would make any JK suspect that his target was either making the kill or being targetted for one. And JK better than tracker because if there is a vig in the setup, a tracker might actually verify that X visited scummy person Y.Paraphrasing wrote:- Troll: Do not choose RB & let hiders claim
-- Because if scum gave us 2 hiders, then we have two confirmed PRs which cannot be NK'd by mutual protect
-- Because if scum gave us 1 hider, we have a confirmed town person right off the bat
(Of course, this is with the added note that fakeclaiming scum will get caught by other PRs flipping\claiming later)
Call me Vas, ;D A little less active than I used to be due to IRL. Hoping to be back up to speed soon-ish!
Call me Vas, ;D A little less active than I used to be due to IRL. Hoping to be back up to speed soon-ish!
Note that after a PR claims, usually only the PR is killed that Night, not a PR and someone else as well. Just because the Assassin can't be used to auto-win the game for scum doesn't mean it can't reduce the number of mislynches we have available. And unlike Vig kills (which have been cited in this argument as similar and are considered good because they reduce the pool of lynch candidates), the extra kills will be on the scum's terms, not (basically) on ours. Vig kills have been known to do more than reduce the pool of lynch candidates. They've been known to - strange as this sounds - kill off scumbags on occasion. In any case, the extra kill the scumteam gains from an Assassin with a good target (for whatever reason - as mith showed, there will be times when a no-PR claim is stupid but with an Assassin chosen anyway, viable alternative methods don't present themselves) is going straight onto the most useful Townie they can think of. Probably someoneRhinox wrote:I think you guys are seriously overestimating the power of the assassin role. For one, it can't be used to end the game/give the mafia a majority. And since its only a 2-shot, the only real threat of an assassin kill is after a PR claim, or a less than a coinflip (probably) chance of the assassin guessing when it gets close to endgame, if it even lives that long. Putting an assassin in is not riding off the PR's as unvaluable. We can still get PR information, except we have to expect that once a PR claims, it will be killed. Note that after a PR claims, they're usually killed or RBed anyways, in most games.
EBWOP: Zorb's Hider-claim idea sounds good. The downsides are limited and the info gained seems both fairly safe and worth it.Plum wrote:Note that after a PR claims, usually only the PR is killed that Night, not a PR and someone else as well. Just because the Assassin can't be used to auto-win the game for scum doesn't mean it can't reduce the number of mislynches we have available. And unlike Vig kills (which have been cited in this argument as similar and are considered good because they reduce the pool of lynch candidates), the extra kills will be on the scum's terms, not (basically) on ours. Vig kills have been known to do more than reduce the pool of lynch candidates. They've been known to - strange as this sounds - kill off scumbags on occasion. In any case, the extra kill the scumteam gains from an Assassin with a good target (for whatever reason - as mith showed, there will be times when a no-PR claim is stupid but with an Assassin chosen anyway, viable alternative methods don't present themselves) is going straight onto the most useful Townie they can think of. Probably someoneRhinox wrote:I think you guys are seriously overestimating the power of the assassin role. For one, it can't be used to end the game/give the mafia a majority. And since its only a 2-shot, the only real threat of an assassin kill is after a PR claim, or a less than a coinflip (probably) chance of the assassin guessing when it gets close to endgame, if it even lives that long. Putting an assassin in is not riding off the PR's as unvaluable. We can still get PR information, except we have to expect that once a PR claims, it will be killed. Note that after a PR claims, they're usually killed or RBed anyways, in most games.notin the lynch pool at all.
Rolecop is in my mind not as bad (though actually it does get worse if it lasts long enough) - it may direct scum at PRs, but it won't ever give them an extra kill or ever reduce the number of mislynches we have. People who've suddenly gone all anti-Janitor (a role I don't think is quite as inherently bad as many people seem to, but still probably worth avoiding. Depending on a lot of factors, some of which will be out of the control of just about everyone in the game, it could be mostly harmless or - slim chance - really bad. So I wouldn't mind avoiding it) think about this: a Janitor may rain on the parade of one lynch, but an Assassin can take away our extra mislynches. Lynches are still what we'll need to win the game. I'm really not interested in handing a few over to the scum for free.
We lynch it. When 50% of PR claims from L-1 positions are scum, I like them odds. PR claims, we get it's info, we get rid of the body. Besides, giving scum the roleblocker means they have no incentive to kill off claimed PR's (if we don't go the assassin route).Plum wrote:Note that after a PR claims, usually only the PR is killed that Night
We're not doing 'No PR claims' - we're doing PR claims, but killing it after. How often are we ever going to actually have a confirmed town PR in this game?Plum wrote:In any case, the extra kill the scumteam gains from an Assassin with a good target (for whatever reason - as mith showed, there will be times when a no-PR claim is stupid but with an Assassin chosen anyway, viable alternative methods don't present themselves) is going straight onto the most useful Townie they can think of. Probably someonenotin the lynch pool at all.
Plum wrote:In any case, the extra kill the scumteam gains from an Assassin with a good target...
Plum wrote:...but an Assassin can take away our extra mislynches
I'm not sure what you mean. I won't be announcing when the town is in lylo, if that's what you're asking.VasudeVa wrote:Then there is the threat of a ninja LyLo(if they are ever unannouced....@Mod: Are they?).
DrippingGoofball wrote:What does that mean, in English?Hoopla wrote:This is also a message to any potential vig; stay quiet early, unless you're very sure.
It's just slightly ambiguous whether you're asking them to lurk, or to not shoot. I think you meant to not shoot, though.Hoopla wrote:Exactly what it says, DGB. I don't see how that remark is cryptic.
Could you explain how you thought the janitor power would work?Kmd4390 wrote:Hmm. I just read the janitor PM. Didn't realize it was for a lynch. I was assuming NK. That's a little stronger than I assumed. I still think I prefer that to a rolecop or assassin though.
A RB'ed Hider can get a false result (though we are aware of this possibility in advance.)zoraster wrote:Last, and sorry to keep posting but I can't help myself but start to get involved: Consider that our roles are likely to be 2 hiders who it really won't hurt to lose. Roleblocking that won't hurt, and assassinating that won't hurt.
I can't parse your second sentence. One hider + one fakeclaiming hider I understand; what does the rest mean?Amished wrote:I would assume that scum would've thought of two-hiders/docs = mini-mason buddies; and put only one in there and possibly then has that open to a fake-claim. With the talent in the game; that's very easy for me to see that they would do that and the roleblocker would then be a good choice for us since if there is a "safe-claim" for them; every other role would have to claim to prove that one of them is lying.
How random was your RV?VasudeVa wrote:@Hoopla: Well, I thought it was RVS time. Apparently not.
Scum daytalk makes this game around 3x scarier with the player list. Is it permanent or just for day 0?
Because I started thinking about what we should give the scum before day 0 started.mith wrote:Herodotus, I'm pretty curious about point 1. Why were you asking the mod whether Hiders can be Roleblocked?
I hope my wording hasn't been too aggressive, because upon a reread I feel like I've been a bit bullying and condescending. Sorry everyone.mith wrote:Hoopla, the wording you are using on occasion when discussing your plan is really bugging me - I know what you're trying to say, but its making me feel like you are more concerned with lynching power roles than with preventing successful fake claims or extra scum kills.