Mini 916 ~ Brrr Mafia. GAME OVER

[Seven]

inverno

Bad for the town, sure, but not scummy.

Can be a tell if it's bad for town, can't it? You need to start somewhere. Why not start with who's being anti-town?

jee

It seems to be a common trend that in peoples' first games, they do not like the RVS.

Is it? Why do you think that is?

inverno:

Jasper is being sketchy. He's separated himself from the crowd by not rvsing and now he's being kinda defensive. I don't think it's scummy though. It's like he's swaying back and forth, pretending to dance, and got called out. It's newbie behavior.

Second time you say something is weird but not scummy. I think this is weird.

The1fifi:

I am not unvoting to "undraw" attention from him. I just say i witnessed something pretty similar happen before. That doesn't make him townie or scum to my eyes, but gives me no reason to keep my vote on him, since his attitude tends more to the townie side.

How is he more on the townie side? All I've got from him so far seems null at best. What are you getting your read from?

As far as the less townie.. umm..maybe you, for questioning everyone, thus trying to create the maximum havoc possible i believe.

still, that might just be your modus operandi as townie.

But one i don't like, cause it doesnt focus on scumhunting, instead focus on creating confusion

As far as I know what we need at this point is discussion as much as possible, and he's trying to get everyone talking. So what's the problem? Are you seriously too "confused" by all the "chatter" already? Because I expect there's going to be a lot more going on that this at some point. Just want to make sure you'll be able to keep up.

[Just read up to the part where inverno gets replaced, so jasonT1981 if you could just respond to what I said about him instead and tell me what you think]

jee:

As for my vote, I was only doing it to get a response out of him. And seeing as he is gone... I don't think that is going to happen. Unvote.

I think this can be a scum tactic... I think someone else already brought this up so I won't elaborate, but since jee just explicitly stated that he actually had no reasons for his vote it seems weird.

DTMaster:

^^ Random "Fosing" Stage? RFS?!??!!??

Hey. Don't diss the RFS.

I'll post more later.

[DTMaster]

@Wacky
1. I wouldn't like it of course (As does anybody), But if you have issues with my posts I'll be happy to defend and scum hunt at once. If you dislike the fact that I'm getting reactions and trying to draw reads from everyone, then you are scum sir.

One way to narrow down the scum list is to find out who reacts townier then the rest. Scum absolutely hates discussion and would rather have tunnel fights because if a mislynch happens on a tunneled person, there less reads on other people.

The fact that I get reactions/actions from everyone puts together a more complete picture then if I just excessively tunnel.

2. How is iff's recation to a "bait" clearing him? Be more explicit:

What is this bait that iffy failed to latch on to that should have catch scum, and what did iffy do to make him townie. In your non td;dr: version I just

read I AGREE WITH IFFY AND WILL NOW WAGON DTM NOW

.

I don't see how you explicitly clear iffy for the time being.

3. I have my own reasons for my kill messages and it is part of my role.

@The1fif1
Just because you think you are right doesn't mean you are right. It also doesn't mean you are helping the town by voting then unvoting because you are more focused on hunting down lurkers then trying to determine if the lurkers are scum or not.

Grenade Toss: The1fif1

@Jason and Jasper
Unexpected, but I will take Jason's verification for it and the link will help.

@Jason
1.I wanted to see Jee's actions. Jee backed away from his accusation which actually makes him scummier. If this was role related, I would have loved to get the wagon started and see where it went. For example if Jee was a day cop then it would make sense for a town PR to justify: "HE R SCUM, BUT I DON"T WANT TO SAY WHY TRUST ME ON THIS"

2. Again I don't like doing the kills/bombs/grenade thing but I have to do this. That is all I'm going to say.

@Nikanor
1. McZombie asked. You didn't. I wasn't focused on attacking you because I wanted to determine if Jee was scum if we ran up Inverno/Jason up with this wagon.

2. I have to type

some form of Kill actually

, every so often. I agree, it is distracting but there is a reason that I'm doing it outside my norm.

For some reason I didn't do this :S. The correct time for me to vote is when I was replaying to McZombie, but oh well.

Unvote

Vote Jee

[jbernier93]

And isn't it a little early to be lurker hunting? Watch out for jbernier, he suspects you even before you've even read the thread. Is it that games have increased in pace since I last played? It used to be that we'd get worried when someone doesn't post in a week.

I voted for Seven in the random stage... he did not post anything, so I was happy with my vote. He then posted something that was incredibly out of place, so I was still happy with my vote. Now it looks like Seven is actually attempting to contribute, so I will

unvote

but keep my eye on him.

Jee is still looking off to me... but wait...

3. I have my own reasons for my kill messages and it is part of my role.

This is a mini normal, whatever role you have that would somehow relate to the messages your posting would not be in a mini normal, unless you're doing some really stupid breadcrumbing, which you've ruined by soft claiming here... really. this is setting off about 6000 alarms in my head.

[jasonT1981]

3. I have my own reasons for my kill messages and it is part of my role.

This is a mini normal, whatever role you have that would somehow relate to the messages your posting would not be in a mini normal, unless you're doing some really stupid breadcrumbing, which you've ruined by soft claiming here... really. this is setting off about 6000 alarms in my head.

That is a very interesting point I didn't actually pick up upon... If this was a post restriction game I could understand it... but your right, this is a mini-normal.

DTM, can you explain a bit further please?

[jasonT1981]

jbernier93, could you please get an avatar? it helps people relate and identify to you easier.

Unfortunately I have no pictures that would make appropriate avatars for my current username. I'll see what I can do but I'm not making any promises.

Eh, type something into google like pretty flowers, or type in your favourite TV show/Movie. save the image and upload it as an avatar... your HD cant

ALL

be porn can it? LOL

[The1fifi]

@ Echo, could you please post something? The only thing you posted was pointing at me, like "oh, look, he unvoted". and no one seems to adress you.

[McZombie]

Ok now that i spent the whole day at work and then reading walls of texts (thanks guys) I have to agree with Jason about jee.

I think you may have been trying to be opertunistic. I really did not like your vote and I do not like your explinations. I feel 'trying to get a response' is a cop out now that he replaced out.

However Jee is the one who has most stuck out to me right now after everything, his vote with explination later was scummy I feel as it gives him leeway on not having to justify his vote there and then (I personally find it scummy voting without reasons) and then the unvote reaked of crap

You makes very valid points and i have to agree with you. That one comment about reasonings to come later as well just set a flag off and haven't been able to shake off the suspisious feeling i've gotten from him since. Therefore:

Unvote
Vote: Jee

Jee, you've had a grand total of four posts. One of which was a random vote, one that discussed the RVS, a vote on inverno, and this post quoted above.

It's now up to 5 but yes, another reason i am suspisious of jee. Seems to me that he genuinely has been busy and had a slow start or has been lurking. And with his last post being slightly better but not really, it just puts him on my radar even more. And this comment makes little sence...

It stuck out to me because he decided to specifically point out Jasper after accusations had already been raining down on Jasper.

well of course he pointed out Jasper. The accusations had "already been raining down" so he was the good choice to pick for sketchy. That's why he was pointing him out. Because he obviously agreeded with said accusations. Everything he seems to say just seems to be suspisious and contradictory.


Also, i agree, echo can you please start posting. You've posted once and it was barely even a contribution to the game. You are also on my radar for suspision of lurking.

[Wacky]

@Wacky
1. I wouldn't like it of course (As does anybody), But if you have issues with my posts I'll be happy to defend and scum hunt at once. If you dislike the fact that I'm getting reactions and trying to draw reads from everyone, then you are scum sir.

One way to narrow down the scum list is to find out who reacts townier then the rest. Scum absolutely hates discussion and would rather have tunnel fights because if a mislynch happens on a tunneled person, there less reads on other people.

The fact that I get reactions/actions from everyone puts together a more complete picture then if I just excessively tunnel.

2. How is iff's recation to a "bait" clearing him? Be more explicit:

What is this bait that iffy failed to latch on to that should have catch scum, and what did iffy do to make him townie. In your non td;dr: version I just

read I AGREE WITH IFFY AND WILL NOW WAGON DTM NOW

.

I don't see how you explicitly clear iffy for the time being.

3. I have my own reasons for my kill messages and it is part of my role.

1. I have no issue with getting reactions, I do that sort of thing as well and think it's great. However, I disagree with you on that "tunnel fight" comment. I think to find mafia we need them to incriminate themselves. But we're posting over the net, how hard is it to maintain a poker face in normal discussion? A little pressure is required to force errors: mafia may slip up and react badly when staring down a wagon, or if the bandwagonee is town they have a dilemma in whether to play the hero and defend the bandwagonee, or jump in and get them lynched.

And what you're doing isn't so much asking question, you keep insinuating things with every "question".

Side note: for this reason I do not find Jee's actions so far to be particularly interesting, because it's just part and parcel of trying to fake out mafia. It's just that we started off with day so no-one paying attention should be falling for it.

Well, except maybe DTM, because he's mafia and figured that since jee wasn't mafia, he must have a cop role.....?

Not that I want to be clearing anyone at this stage, but I'll make a mental note to myself of "if DTM mafia then jee scumminess -5" (you guys can add "and Wacky not mafia" to that)

2. If iffy said something like, "I think Jasper is town" then I would have jumped on him. (But he actually said that he just didn't know.) Or if he had gone and said something stupidly suspicious. Instead my vote just got ignored. That's no fun.

Also I'm not clearing him, I just don't care about him right now because you're just looking too suspicious, especially with all those daykilling stuff on top.

Also, I think you're misconstruing things with "read I AGREE WITH IFFY AND WILL NOW WAGON DTM NOW". While it's true I did agree with iffy and do really, really want to WAGON DTM NOW, but my post was a lot more detailed than iffy's.

3.

I. Don't. Believe. You.

Because I've faked a post restriction as mafia before, and because this is supposed to be a normal game.

I suppose I could wait till day 2 and see if any roles revealed are vanilla or flying pumpkin-esque, but you forgot to kill anyone in post #23. Can't you stop now?

[Sotty7]

3rd Vote count of day one

Jee 3: (jasonT1981, DTMaster, McZombie)

jasonT1981 1: (Jee)
McZombie 1: (Nikanor)
DTMaster 1: (Wacky)

Not Voting 6:

Echo, Seven, Neon_Appliances, Jasper, The1fifi, jbernier93

-With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
-Deadline is 2/22/10 @ 10am CTS.
- Neon_Appliances is being replaced.

[Sotty7]

Zachrulez replaces Neon_Appliances! <3 fast replacements.

[Zachrulez]

\confirming replacement

I will have a look at the thread and try to get a post up momentarily.

[Jasper]

jee:

As for my vote, I was only doing it to get a response out of him. And seeing as he is gone... I don't think that is going to happen. Unvote.

I think this can be a scum tactic... I think someone else already brought this up so I won't elaborate, but since jee just explicitly stated that he actually had no reasons for his vote it seems weird.

I have been going back and forth on voting for DTM or jee... but this vote for no reason then unvote for no real reason...

Vote: jee

Welcome to the game Zachrules!

[jasonT1981]

Hey Zach.. welcome to the game.

[Zachrulez]

Not liking DTMaster right now.

Eluding to a post restriction in a mini normal game is just made of all kinds of fail.

Also not liking the way he was so willing to follow Jee's vote without an explanation for the vote, or how quickly he turned on Jee once Jee explained the vote. (Consequently I don't find Jee's play paticularly scummy either.)

Also didn't like his pressure on Jasper for links to games where he encountered all the types of scum. Mainly because I don't see what Jasper has to PROVE he's encountered all different types of scum. It just seems like a pointless, pretending to scum hunt point.

Vote: DTMaster

Also worthy of an

FOS

is fifi.

Vote Jasper for being so well informed on scum methodology ^^

Why is that scummy?

About what i think about Jasper acting. Well, if he is townie, he is just acting like a townie acted in my other game, (which is pretty bad btw..) and who got himself lynched pretty soon. Drawing to much atention, and for that i unvote him

unvote

Wishy Washy. I want a better explanation.

Also noting that Jasper never reacted to fifi's vote.

jee:

As for my vote, I was only doing it to get a response out of him. And seeing as he is gone... I don't think that is going to happen. Unvote.

I think this can be a scum tactic... I think someone else already brought this up so I won't elaborate, but since jee just explicitly stated that he actually had no reasons for his vote it seems weird.

I have been going back and forth on voting for DTM or jee... but this vote for no reason then unvote for no real reason...

Vote: jee

Welcome to the game Zachrules!

First I have heard of you being suspicious of anyone. Why do you find DTMaster scummy?

[jbernier93]

Seven 1: (jbernier93)

Mod, I unvoted during my last post...

[Jasper]

First I have heard of you being suspicious of anyone. Why do you find DTMaster scummy?

His constant "I want examples"... coming down to demanding I give him a link.

His weak daykill explanation.

His seemingly good work at trying to push the attention away from him.[/b]

[jee]

It seems to be a common trend that in peoples' first games, they do not like the RVS.

Is it? Why do you think that is?

Because they don't see a point in it. They might not want to step on anyone's shoes. But now the Jasper has said he has been playing plenty in other games, I don't see that as a valid excuse.

As for my vote, I was only doing it to get a response out of him. And seeing as he is gone... I don't think that is going to happen. Unvote.

I think this can be a scum tactic... I think someone else already brought this up so I won't elaborate, but since jee just explicitly stated that he actually had no reasons for his vote it seems weird.

So apparently I missed where the RVS suddenly stopped. Its still early in the game, I don't see why it is so scummy. If anyone is interested I did the same thing in my last game, Newbie 869, I happen to be the doctor. Was gonna help discussion, but I see that people in Mini Normal's have no problem with discussion.

[Zachrulez]

I do it on occasion as well Jee.

People find the concept of not initially explaining your vote weird and even scummy, but I don't understand why it's strange to want to try to get a reaction out of a player that's piqued your interest early on in the game and explain your vote later.

[Seven]

@jee: With the explanation of you still thinking it was more or less RVS your vote makes more sense but I'm not sure I buy it. You said you would give explanations later on... and didn't.

So let's just pretend this was not a scum tactic for a second, here. What were you hoping for? And by this I mean what would have been the ideal result of that move and not what you were hoping to do. (I'm fumbling to word this properly so if that doesn't make sense I'll try to rephrase)

And why did you choose to use the tactic on inverno over someone else? Was it completely roll of the dice random or..?

[DTMaster]

Lol, since when did I say I have a post restriction. Me bolding and referencing to kill is part of my role, but

@Zach
1. Can you be more specific? You are just echoing scum and pretty much is parroting Jason, Iffy, Nikanor and McZombie. That in itself is quite scummy because it just looks like you aren't contributing to the case against me and is riding on the current bandwagon.

2. I explained why I wanted to voted Jason/Inverno. Why didn't anyone comment on that.

@People on my wagon
1. You said you disliked my Jee vote, but why aren't you even commenting or attacking my reasoning because of this? I explained by the fact that Jee could have had day investigation role and I would rather use an Inverno bandwagon to see if Jee was complacent to let his wagon go forward.

Any townie who was pressure voting would not let this slide (ie. Jee would have stopped the wagon by attacking me). If Jee was scum then he would have loved to have the wagon go forward. If Jee was PR investigation role, we would have lynched scum.

In all scenarios: I would have gotten a good town read off Jee, a scum read off Jee or a dead scum. What the eff is wrong with that?

[DTMaster]

@Jasper
1. Why is it that Jason gave the link but you refused to. When I ask for meta references, I would like them please. The only reason why I stopped hounding you was because of Jason's link and confirmation of your experience.

Isn't it more anti-town to refuse references then to give them? It's like refusing to answer a quesiton.

2.Also your passive, indirect attack on me is noted since you aren't even scum hunting me, nor questioning me. It looks scummy because you are riding passively on this. If you think I'm scummy, say so to my face. This is quite new news to me since You are pretty much parroting Nikanor's argument.

GAIS WE MIGHT HAVE A NIKANOR JASON SCUM LINK HERE. Screw the Jee wagon I rather have a Jasper wagon.

3. Also you parroted Seven, Nikanor, blah blah blah blah blah.

@Jason/Jniper
Actually

my kills

are quite necessary, but only when the time is right.

@Wacky
1. And you can't apply pressure to scum when you are dealing with more then one people at once? We are now talking about game play philosophy which is just as ineffective as scum hunting as not doing anything at all. Less philosophy nao! More scum hunting, like the rest of the post.

2. So you aren't voting me now why? If you agree with Iffy, and you don't think my accusations are sound, you either think I'm scum or you have other suspicions running around.

If it's the former: it just looks like you admitted you didn't want to look bad to join in on this wagon. If it's the latter: I see more DTM attacks then: "Yoh I think Y is more scummier then X".

3. No it's not a post restriction. Yes it's important for me to do this because I made it so.

@Jasper and McZ
LOL You voted Jee: After I voted Jee. Wut?

Unvote

Vote: Jasper

[jee]

@Seven, saying reasons will come later is a lot more acceptable at the time of a vote than no vote at all. Confirm or Deny?

Honestly, I didn't know what to expect, but I was looking for something to further my suspicion on him. Like I said before I specifically I chose inverno because of Post 30. In your post 75 you even point his post out. I found it odd that he specifically pointed out Jasper after other people had already been talking about the scumminess of Jasper. It seemed to me that he was pointing out that he, himself, was against Jasper. Just seemed off.

If Jee was scum then he would have loved to have the wagon go forward. If Jee was PR investigation role, we would have lynched scum.

Was looking for reaction, not a wagon, specifically at inverno. Thats why I unvoted.

[Seven]

@Seven, saying reasons will come later is a lot more acceptable at the time of a vote than no vote at all.

Can you rephrase this please?

I agree inverno was being pretty weird. I'm still waiting on jason to comment on inverno, I'm somewhat unsatisfied with him up until now.

Looking into some of the more recent debate between DTM and... everyone. Will post notes on that in a bit.

@fifi: Could you respond to my question post 75 please.

[The1fifi]

@ Seven : As to my eyes, he might tend to town. But that is just because that in the incident i refered, the guy who got lynched for pretty bad and similar playing, turned out to be town. Ofc, meta'ing two diferent people often gives no results, so i decide no thing from it. Null or townie tending, i unvoted

Unlike Jee says :

saying reasons will come later is a lot more acceptable at the time of a vote than no vote at all. Confirm or Deny?

Totally deny! Is much better to not vote than vote and possible lynch an innocent townie, or worst.. a power role pro-town.

Oh, but wait.. That is from townie perspective..

From the scum perspective.. Well, its one more vote, so more chance at someone innocent get lynched.

Jee, if you really are town, you are doing a really bad job at proving it.

Vote Jee.

[Wacky]

@Jason/Jniper
Actually

my kills

are quite necessary, but only when the time is right.

3. No it's not a post restriction. Yes it's important for me to do this because I made it so.

....huh? It's necessary but it isn't?

You said you disliked my Jee vote, but why aren't you even commenting or attacking my reasoning because of this? I explained by the fact that Jee could have had day investigation role and I would rather use an Inverno bandwagon to see if Jee was complacent to let his wagon go forward.

Let me spell it out for you then. Spelling it out probably benefits mafia but since we seem to have newbies it's probably necessary.

Going by the opening post which reveals the standard PM for a vanilla townie. The implication is that this is a vanilla game. Very simple vanilla game, with vanilla cops, vanilla docs, vanilla non-daykilling vigilantes, vanilla deputies, and vanilla mafia.

Except it's not obvious to vanilla mafia that this is a vanilla game. So they make up some stuff about

Kill: people

for whatever reason, and assume that jee must be a day investigation cop (Because, you know.... what else could he be, voting for someone like that on day 1?) and hey look! A flying pumpkin with a one-shot tracker ability and a two shot LASER ability!

It's just very improbable. A day investigation cop is improbable. A post-restricted-vig is similarly improbable. A mafia that messed up a fakeclaim.... not so improbable.

Finally:

@Wacky

2. So you aren't voting me now why? If you agree with Iffy, and you don't think my accusations are sound, you either think I'm scum or you have other suspicions running around.

If it's the former: it just looks like you admitted you didn't want to look bad to join in on this wagon. If it's the latter: I see more DTM attacks then: "Yoh I think Y is more scummier then X".

I

am

voting you. Please check earlier vote count.

DTMaster 1: (Wacky)

In case there was any doubt, here is where I'm at:

Confirm vote DTMaster

Current

FOS

List:

- The1fifi, wishy washy voting and then late to the jee bandwagon.
- jbernier93, although I'm not sure why myself. Maybe not then.