Newbie 827 - Store Katana (Scum Win!)

[Wysp]

In addition, I'd like to point at Tenchi's last game, Katana Village. Page Two, a player known as Wickedswami says no lynch, and they immediately jump all over him. While he does get later replaced, his replacement is revealed to have been a townie. It is, obviously, a common fallacy made by new players. I hope you will understand.

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VOTE COUNT

(2) Wysp - julienvonwolfe, Messiah

(1) n107yuh - XScorpion
(1) NewAgeWarrior - purple princess
(1) Messiah - Wysp

Not Voting: n107yuh, Sarcyn, NewAgeWarrior, oramiuri

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
DEADLINE: September 7, 2009 12:01 PM PST

[XScorpion]

@XScorpion: I'll ask my question again since you ignored it. Considering your firm "lurkers are scum" stance do you believe that both of our scum are in the three people who haven't posted yet? Why sergio instead of the other two?

I think that it wouldn't be a bad mafia tactic to lurk as long as possible...if there are other lurkers, that makes it even easier to blend in. If I was mafia, I definitely would consider posting as little as possible to divert attention, and since there are several lurkers already, it's harder to pinpoint who is actually unable to post and who isn't posting deliberately.
Sergio was picked since of the lurkers, he was the most "lurky" (hadn't even confirmed yet) to me. I'll change my vote to Sarcyn as soon as n107 offers some of his thoughts.

[Messiah]

I don't recall saying I was confused, although admittedly I was. I also never said anything about scum not doing what I was doing, to the best of my recollection.

*is confused*

Dangit, now you have me confused.

Point 3--Would a Mafian be making this much noise this early in the game?

Okay, now I'm confused.

I'll also proffer this argument as to my innocence: if I was Mafia, I'd <snip>

What's with the WIFOM?

Quick question-- Messiah, you seem to be experienced here. How many games here have you played?

This is my first game ever, this site or otherwise.

It is, obviously, a common fallacy made by new players. I hope you will understand.

You aren't a new player though, correct?

But anyway, I think Wysp is scum. If some of you want me to I'll make a wall-of-text post stating the entire case against him, but I feel that's unnecessary this early in the game(and walls of text are annoying).

I'm very interested in hearing the other players view on this whole thing between Wysp and I that haven't given it lately.

[Wysp]

Mm. You're taking those out of context. Those weren't meant by a defense, it was just an idle comment.

Let me rephrase the "New Player" comment: It is a common fallacy made by players unfamiliar with the tactic. We don't use those, we're more used to talking to each other via PM behind each other's backs, XD.

You think I'm scum...

I'll let you vote for me, if you're that determined. I know that I'll be vindicated in the end, live or die.

[Wysp]

As they say, the bet's only good if your life is the ante. *grin*

[julienvonwolfe]

Welcome, n107

Wysp hasn't answered my vote on him directly, but this seems to be his reply to the general accusations.

I'm gonna anwer the quick-lynch question once and for all:

Point 1--Like I said, I'm from a place which goes a lot faster at our lynches. I apologize if this makes me seem suspicious. Sadly, the forums which I play on are down for upgrades (and have been so for...two, three weeks, at least?), but once they come up, I can link to the pages for proof.

Point 2--I picked the guy who isn't playing. The one who would be the least advantage to the town. If anything, people who want to lynch players who are actually participating are the supicious ones. Sadly, I don't (like I have bemoaned many times before) have any evidence for finger-pointing at this time.

Point 3--Would a Mafian be making this much noise this early in the game? I've played Mafia before, on both sides, and I know the best way for the Mafian to win is to stay low and influence opinion, not stand out and speak up. What do I look like I'm doing?

1) There's no problem with a bit of aggression. However, playing in a fast style when there's no need to is unnecessary.

2) Do you prefer to lynch lurkers, or replace them?

3) As has been pointed out, this is a WIFOM defence.

*facepalm*

Wow, I feel stupid.

Okay, I just reread the rules and noticed that this site permits null votes. Ergo...

Null Vote

Rather than killing a lurker (Townie, Mafia, or whatever) or an active member, IMO it makes more sense to just not lynch.

How do you propose to kill mafia in this game if we never lynch?


@ Purple Princess

Princess - what do you think of his statement that he didn't expect anybody to believe his claim?

Well I guess he had to say that after S23181208 bought it up, I'm not sure what he thought he would gain from saying "I am town" maybe he thought people would leave him alone as he must obvioulsy must be town.

So, in effect, you are saying that you don't believe him when he says that he didn't expect anybody to believe him. Fair enough.

Also, why does not confirming not equal lurking if the game has already started?

I could compleatly understand if he had confirmed his role that not posting anything could been seen as lurking, but as I see it he hasn't confirmed so isn't really part of this game, sure he could have a scum role but how can you tell without him confirming or even posting in this game.

But the game has started. If he did have a scum role, he could deliberately confirm late in order to try and lurk a bit and maybe stay under the radar. Is that not plausible?

Princess, I am curious - what do you think of Wysp?

@ XScorpion

@XScorpion: I'll ask my question again since you ignored it. Considering your firm "lurkers are scum" stance do you believe that both of our scum are in the three people who haven't posted yet? Why sergio instead of the other two?

I think that it wouldn't be a bad mafia tactic to lurk as long as possible...if there are other lurkers, that makes it even easier to blend in. If I was mafia, I definitely would consider posting as little as possible to divert attention, and since there are several lurkers already, it's harder to pinpoint who is actually unable to post and who isn't posting deliberately.
Sergio was picked since of the lurkers, he was the most "lurky" (hadn't even confirmed yet) to me. I'll change my vote to Sarcyn as soon as n107 offers some of his thoughts.

What do you think of the active players?

[Wysp]

1) There's no problem with a bit of aggression. However, playing in a fast style when there's no need to is unnecessary.

2) Do you prefer to lynch lurkers, or replace them?

3) As has been pointed out, this is a WIFOM defence.

1) Yes, I have realized that. Accept my apologies.

2) I am not familiar with the replacing piece. Where I came from, we usually either lynched them or left them alone, and they never showed up or bothered us.

3) That doesn't decrease its validity.

How do you propose to kill mafia in this game if we never lynch?

I never said never lynch. I said don't lynch now and get more evidence.

Of course, I've since renounced that thought, since more experinced members have corrected me.

[XScorpion]

What do you think of the active players?

Messiah: I get a town feeling from Messiah. He's pressured everyone suspicious so far in this game, and hasn't actually made any anti-town actions or comments yet. Considering the amount of evidence that incriminates the other active players, he's probably one of my less likely choices for scum.

Wysp: At this point, due to both his hammer mistake and his suggestion to no-lynch, I think Wysp is somewhere between newbie-town and newbie-mafia. A good mafia would be keeping his head down at the moment, rather than drawing lots of attention like Wysp is...if Wysp was mafia, he's taking an awfully big risk by exposing himself so much already. I thought Wysp was scummy earlier, but after he suggested the no-lynch, I think it's more likely that he is just making a lot of mistakes. If Wysp is a newbie-mafia, then he's more likely to slip up later on and make it more obvious. On the other hand, his potential partner could very well be one of the lurkers who hasn't posted yet.

pp: Hard to get a good vibe since she hasn't posted as much as Wysp or Messiah. I would say town, but I don't like her suggestion that we leave sergie (now n107) alone just because he hadn't confirmed yet. Possible mafia partnership? Highly, highly doubtful, but it could be.

NAW: Town, or foolish mafia. I'm actually thinking he might be the doctor, as the cop shouldn't claim townie if he wants people (or me at least) to believe him, the townie should not make comments like that since it could lead mafia to think he's not the doctor/cop (we want a townie to get night killed, not a power role) and mafia just threw away the ability to fake-claim a power role later. Either way, claiming so early was a huge mistake, and if NAW is mafia, then I expect him to make more mistakes later on.

You: Too passive for me to tell at this point. Speaking of which, I think you should answer the same question as I. What do YOU think of ALL the players at this point?

My vote is staying where it is. If we end up lynching townies unintentionally, I would prefer that we lynch the lurkers than the ones who have actually offered insight, since it's a lot harder to get a read on people who don't post.

[oramiuri]

My vote is staying where it is. If we end up lynching townies unintentionally, I would prefer that we lynch the lurkers than the ones who have actually offered insight, since it's a lot harder to get a read on people who don't post.

I respectfully disagree. From what I've seen, the kind of revelations which are useful as evidence tend come come out of emotional outbursts, which in turn usually result to being very close to being lynched. Clearly, one can not put pressure on a lurker.

[XScorpion]

While I doubt it would be as effective, I don't think it's impossible to pressure lurkers. If we start voting out lurkers, then when another lurker gets to L-1, he might be inclined to stop lurking and start trying to defend himself.

[julienvonwolfe]

NAW: Town, or foolish mafia. I'm actually thinking he might be the doctor, as the cop shouldn't claim townie if he wants people (or me at least) to believe him, the townie should not make comments like that since it could lead mafia to think he's not the doctor/cop (we want a townie to get night killed, not a power role) and mafia just threw away the ability to fake-claim a power role later. Either way, claiming so early was a huge mistake, and if NAW is mafia, then I expect him to make more mistakes later on.

You rolefish too much.

You: Too passive for me to tell at this point. Speaking of which, I think you should answer the same question as I. What do YOU think of ALL the players at this point?

I'm certainly not going to say who I think is the most town of us, as that's a good way of telling the scum who to kill tonight. The people I'm focussing on at the moment, though:

- Wysp, for wanting to end the day early, for seemingly not being focussed on lynching scum, for no voting, for being confused all the time.

- You, for speculating so much about who may be what power role and being so aggressive towards lurkers.

- Purple Princess, just a gut feeling more than anything else right now. Her defense of s3r9i032123, who looked like he was nearly lynched on page two, raises my eyebrows.

I think that asking the mod to prod and possibly replace lurkers is far better than lynching them, as lurking doesn't always equal scummy.

My vote is staying where it is. If we end up lynching townies unintentionally, I would prefer that we lynch the lurkers than the ones who have actually offered insight, since it's a lot harder to get a read on people who don't post.

What do you think about replacing lurkers?

[NewAgeWarrior]

This is quite an active game, and I like it.

I don't think that Wysp is scum, if for nothing more I believe that scum would not have drawn as much attention to themselves of made such drastic action so early. This doesn't abstain him from the possibility that he is scum, he simply doesn't give me that feeling.

@ wysp
You seem to be far too concerned withy lynching or not lynching. IMO, a no lynch is fine on day 1, but only if we really can't decide on any one person. Getting as much information as possible is the most important thing we can do with day 1.

[Messiah]

NAW: Town, or foolish mafia. I'm actually thinking he might be the doctor, as the cop shouldn't claim townie if he wants people (or me at least) to believe him, the townie should not make comments like that since it could lead mafia to think he's not the doctor/cop (we want a townie to get night killed, not a power role) and mafia just threw away the ability to fake-claim a power role later. Either way, claiming so early was a huge mistake, and if NAW is mafia, then I expect him to make more mistakes later on.

This doesn't sit well with me. Early game speculation of possible power roles is distinctly anti-town.

@NewAgeWarrior: We shouldn't even be discussing the no-lynch anymore, we aren't going to no-lynch on day 1.

Eagerly awaiting n107yuh/Sacryn/PurplePrincess' thoughts.

[Messiah]

EBWODP:

That last line should be "Eagerly awaiting n107yuh/Sarcyn/PurplePrincess' thoughts."

@mod:Can we get a prod on Sarcyn?

[XScorpion]

Assuming the replacements don't lurk as well, I'm all for it. In fact, it's a good idea just to wait for replacements or lurkers to stop hiding before we lynch anyone.

[Wysp]

Yeah. I'm gonna apologize for the hammer/lynch/nolynch stuff. That was an honest mistake, and you'll find the same true even if you lynch me. XD

On second thought, I'm seeing it from Messiah's POV. I can understand how I looked suspicious. I'll withdraw my vote for Messiah. I don't know who to vote for at the moment, though.

[Sarcyn]

Okay, so I've been kinda busy in the last few days, started a new job and also signed up to a new roleplaying site in the last week, so apologies for my lack of postage.

I've tried to catch up, and although I agree that Wysp does seem pretty scummy, I'm hesistant to put hi, at l-2, especially relatively early. I'm still a bit new to all this, but I don't think anyone else seems to be quite such a good candidate to me...

I'm gonna withold my vote for now, and see how Wysp responds to added pressure...

[Messiah]

@Sarcyn: I don't know how much pressure you're putting on him by saying "Yeah, you're kind of suspicious." Also, is that all you have to say about the entire thread so far?

@Everyone: Anything I manage to post in the next 48 hours or so will be done using my phone so my apologies if there's less content in my posts during this period.

[XScorpion]

FOS Sarcyn: "Wysp seems suspicious" is very shallow and uninformative. And the "I'm a little new at this" is hardly an excuse...I've never played mafia before either, yet I've still told everyone exactly what I think at this point. I'm very interested in hearing more specifics what you think about everything so far. I probably would have voted for you now if n107 wasn't still absent...

[Wysp]

Hahaha...Wysp is suspicious.

Maybe I'm a Townie who's made a deal with a Mafian to act suspicious and then get hanged and then look innocent, casting suspicion on whoever lynched me.

...What? It's happened before.

[XScorpion]

Not here. One of the site rules is "play to win". Townies can't try to get the town to lose, and the same goes for mafia.

[purple princess]

But the game has started. If he did have a scum role, he could deliberately confirm late in order to try and lurk a bit and maybe stay under the radar. Is that not plausible?

Very true, I just felt that we should have waited for him to confirm before votes were fired at him, I do uunderstand that he may have a scum role, but we should have given him a bit of a chance to defend himself before eveyone decided to vote for him. Say for instance he was quick lynched by some enthusiastic newbie players before he had even confirmed and he was actually town, we would not have much to go on for day 2 and effectivly given mafia a "free pass"

Princess, I am curious - what do you think of Wysp?

Hmmm I am unsure what to make of him at the moment, seems to be a very active player, but his posts don't really say much to be honest, he seems to have drawn quite a lot of attention to himself but I am unsure why, also he seems to be voting all over the place at the moment which I find a little bit odd, he has changed his vote four times and this game is only a few days old.

[NewAgeWarrior]

@NewAgeWarrior: We shouldn't even be discussing the no-lynch anymore, we aren't going to no-lynch on day 1.

Who gave you the authority to decide that? Don't get me wrong, it's not that I want a no-lynch, it's merely that a no lynch > lynching a pro-town member. Lynching just to lynch can be very hazardous.

[XScorpion]

If we no-lynch, we throw away one of our chances to lynch a mafia, and we only get so many chances. The longer we wait, the harder it will be later on to lynch mafia, since the ratio of pro-town to mafia will tilt in their favour.

[Sarcyn]

Well in fairness I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread... I guess that makes me a bad player. But I have better things to do.

So I'm going to request to be replaced:

@MOD: Please replace me in this game.

Sorry to be so unhelpful...