Mini 698 - Georgetown Mafia - Game over

[Huntress]

Vote Count

OhGodMyLife 2 - (Cephrir, Corvuus)
Cephrir 1 - (OhGodMyLife)
Apothecary 1 - (MacavityLock)

Not voting 5 - (Apothecary, Elmo, Jazzmyn, LLamaFluff, Qwints)

With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

[Elmo]

Dead:

StrangerCoug

(Mafia Roleblocker)

lynched Day One

If there was more than one mafia group, they would have a family identifier, like "Russian Mafia Roleblocker" or something. I'd take this as pretty much confirming we only have a single mafia group. Not sure how more than that is going to work in a mini normal of 11 players, anyway.

[OhGodMyLife]

Elmo makes a good point about the lack of a qualifier in the mafia role reveal. And I totally forgot that this game started with 11 players, not 12. I really doubt there's a second scumgroup, but SC's paranoid setup speculation about the possibilities of two scumgroups makes me think there's a good chance that only one scummo is left alive.

Cephrir, in due course I will detail why you are the last scumbag. In the meantime, please do try to carry on the farce that I could conceivably be SC's partner.

[Cephrir]

You're hilarious.

[qwints]

vote: Cephrir

You're not helpful.

[Cephrir]

Explaining your votes, however,

is

helpful.

[Elmo]

Explaining your votes, however,

is

helpful.

I found a scum! All aboard!

Reasoning please!

Later!

In the words of primate,

[OhGodMyLife]

Unvote, FoS StrangerCoug

for flipping out. Although he did play scummily as town in the other game I've played with him.

You couldn't make yourself more obvious.

I've obviously succeeded in getting the game rolling but evidently only in the sense that I'm now on everyone's scumlist. I'd like to at least put some pressure somewhere, and from what I've seen so far, I think a

Vote: SrangerCoug

can only do good.

What better way to get suspicion off of yourself than to ramp up the bussing of your partner.

Unvote, Vote: Primate

because stop.

But only until you find a reason to vote for someone else. A reason, I might add, which doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with actually thinking Primate was scum.

...................

I don't agree with anyone ever posting simply to avoid a prod.

You have nothing new to add? You could clarify what you think about Primate, SC, me, etc. instead of saying nothing. Go on record with an actual 'stance'.

Saying nothing is horribly anti-town and no townie should actively try to say nothing since it doesn't let others see if you are town or scum and by actually posting and taking a stand, people could see if you were town based on your actions.

With none existent posting, no input, etc. then yeah, I am going to FoS you just for discussion alone.

FoS: MacavityLock

Corvuus

Saying nothing =/= intentionally saying nothing. Not having a lot to contribute for a brief period is not a scumtell. If he continues to say nothing fell free to attack him, but this is quite overzealous.

Just noting this defense of Mac for when Cephrir flips scum.

*happy dance*

Based on recent posts by MM and Macavity, I think Macavity wins the argument, but I haven't been following that back-and-forth too attentively.

Just noting this support of Mac for when Cephrir flips scum.

Cephrir is my #2 for reasons already stated, mainly his withholding his reason for voting Evilgorillaz and finally answering by saying he was trying to get us out of the random voting stage (which I don't buy—there are more pro-town ways to go about it).

Number two on a scumlist is a wonderfully safe way to distance your partner, eh?

That SC wagon looks better every minute. Actually, Vote: SC. His most recent few posts have really sealed it for me, and now he's backing off Ythill which seems to me like a total cop-out to the accusation of his rapidly changing suspicions (which, incidentally, is not a bad tell IMO). Note that this is a L-1 vote.

Uh ohs, SC is crashing and burning at an alarming rate, better get back on that wagon quick! But remember everyone, this is the L-1 vote, don't lynch him before he has time to fakeclaim something.

You know, the whole I'm-not-scummy-look-at-him thing in your last post. I don't know that I feel it's a scumtell, but I certainly don't think it helps the town.

Meh. The two things really weren't connected. I see where you're coming from though.

Ythill makes a great point against Cephrir, and all he can really do is acknowledge that Y is right on and hope it gets forgotten about.

Unvote

, and dammit. I don't believe SC at all but it's still not a good plan to lynch him.

Sweet, my scum power role partner gets to live another day! But he'll obviously be dead sooner rather than later, so better remind everyone that I still think he's scum.

FoS MM

for being SC's scumbuddy.

Setting up the fall guy

Cephrir, you FoS'd MiteyMouse specifically for being my scumbuddy. How can you accuse player X of being player Y's scumbuddy when player Y's alignment is not confirmed?

SC helps set up the fall guy

Overdefensiveness if not a scumtell, it's a natural reaction. And yes, we do have an all but confirmed scum. His name is StrangerCoug.

Remember guys, I never stopped thinking he was scum!!!

@Apoc, Ceph, Jazz - Who is your top suspect, and what is preventing a vote?

Assuming you mean top non-SC suspect, that'd be MM. I'm not voting her because it looks like it's pointless. I'd vote Apoth if I knew how many votes he had.

Eh, Apoth is my second suspect so he's OK with me honestly.

Thats strange.

I went away this weekend and nothing happened. Yay, I guess.

Is that L-1? I'm willing to hammer, I'm done with both Apoth and this day.

I'm trying to figure out where you started thinking Apoth was likely to be scum, but all I can find is your comment that he's "imploding." Yays, stupid townies are easy mislynches!

Seeing as I'm voting MM I think it's obvious I think MM is scummier than Apoth, but I'm fine with lynching Apoth too as I've stated a lot of times.

All you've said up to this point about MM is that she's obviously got to be SC's scumpartner, and yes you've stated lots of times you'd be willing to lynch Apoth, but thats literally

all

you've said about him.

I wouldn't call SC the easy lynch, its actually proving difficult to convince enough people to vote for him.

Hey, Cephrir, you're theoretically convinced enough that SC is scum to be voting me because I'm supposed to be his scumbuddy. Shouldn't you be helping lynch him before you try to lead a lynch based on positively knowing his alignment?

I've said quite a few times now that that's not my reason for voting MM/you. It's just a comment I made based on my belief that both of you are scum, it has nothing to do with links between the two of you. Well, there are some links, but that was not a huge factor.

That said, SC is a good lynch today as well. I'd like to know tomorrow why you think I'm scum, OGML, but I'll go with it. SC's more likely scum IMO than Apoth, and lynching you doesn't seem like it's going to happen. I still think you and SC are both scum. Let's face it, that would be a pretty good bus right now.

But it's not like the scum would ever kill a hypothetically town SC anyway.

Unvote, Vote SC

With all the parading around declaring SC obvscum after the doc claim you could hardly get away with NOT bussing him here, but I like how you try to paint my entry as a brilliant bus strategy.

Now, go go Cephrir wagon.

[OhGodMyLife]

Explaining your votes, however,

is

helpful.

I found a scum! All aboard!

Reasoning please!

Later!

In the words of primate,

Zing!

[Jazzmyn]

If there was more than one mafia group, they would have a family identifier, like "Russian Mafia Roleblocker" or something. I'd take this as pretty much confirming we only have a single mafia group. Not sure how more than that is going to work in a mini normal of 11 players, anyway.

Those are good points, Elmo, and when taken as a whole along with what happened overnight and along with SC's odd posts about possible setups, possible factions and such, I am inclined to think that there is just one mafia group.

I really doubt there's a second scumgroup, but SC's paranoid setup speculation about the possibilities of two scumgroups makes me think there's a good chance that only one scummo is left alive.

This is a good point, too, and it makes eminent sense to me. Now, the trick, of course, is to determine who that remaining scum is.

I came back last night after Christmas shopping and wrapping presents, and started to re-read the thread very carefully from the beginning. I got through the first 17 pages and then, literally, fell asleep at my desk exhausted, only to wake up in the middle of the night to toddle off to bed before continuing my shopping and wrapping today. So, I still have pages 18-29 to re-read, and I hope to find something previously overlooked that might shed some light on the identity of SC's scum partner, but so far, I haven't found a whole lot of substantive evidence, but lots in the way of "gut" reactions to a couple of players in particular. *Sigh* Oh well, I'll continue my re-read and my notes tomorrow and then see what patterns emerge that might be helpful.

Regards,
Jazz

[OhGodMyLife]

If its a two person mafia team, Cephrir-scum lynch will be game over, new high score. If it isn't, everybody remember tomorrow to look back at the multitude of linkages between Ceph-Mac and Coug-Mac. I'm pretty much convinced now that is where the answer lies.

[Jazzmyn]

Something else just twigged (but it won't make any sense to anyone who wasn't personally involved in a specific previous game, and it would take far too long to explain to anyone who wasn't) so I'm just going to go ahead and:

Vote: Cephrir

Regards,
Jazz

[Corvuus]

eh, I think I am out of my depth here.

I need to re-read and try to make sense of everything... or maybe I am just obsessing with what SC was doing/saying and thinking it has to be logical/make sense.

I did re-read a bit of Cephrir and while I originally thought (back during Primate) that he was more town-leaning, I do see what you guys mean and I had considered MM to be town earlier as well and was thinking of various motives/reasonings going on. I attributed them mostly to Ythill trying to pull something but oh well.

Unvote, Vote Cephrir

There are a few things that rub me the wrong way. Some is what OGML mentioned in setting up MM and various wording, some is just the style of declaring players town and such and then shifting it. Whether Apoth, Primate(ythill) or other, it just seems hard to stick anything.

So maybe my concepts are crazy but it's where I am at right now.

Corvuus

[Cephrir]

Explaining your votes, however,

is

helpful.

I found a scum! All aboard!

Reasoning please!

Later!

In the words of primate,

Yeah, but I had a reason.

Unvote, FoS StrangerCoug

for flipping out. Although he did play scummily as town in the other game I've played with him.

You couldn't make yourself more obvious.

Well, it's true. I always think he's scum.

I've obviously succeeded in getting the game rolling but evidently only in the sense that I'm now on everyone's scumlist. I'd like to at least put some pressure somewhere, and from what I've seen so far, I think a

Vote: SrangerCoug

can only do good.

What better way to get suspicion off of yourself than to ramp up the bussing of your partner.

This can easily be taken as bussing or not and you've apparently decided that I'm scum so of course you'd think so.

Unvote, Vote: Primate

because stop.

But only until you find a reason to vote for someone else. A reason, I might add, which doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with actually thinking Primate was scum.

No, it had a lot to do with gettinig him to stop the fake PR though.

Cephrir is my #2 for reasons already stated, mainly his withholding his reason for voting Evilgorillaz and finally answering by saying he was trying to get us out of the random voting stage (which I don't buy—there are more pro-town ways to go about it).

Number two on a scumlist is a wonderfully safe way to distance your partner, eh?

So are numbers 1 and 3.

That SC wagon looks better every minute. Actually, Vote: SC. His most recent few posts have really sealed it for me, and now he's backing off Ythill which seems to me like a total cop-out to the accusation of his rapidly changing suspicions (which, incidentally, is not a bad tell IMO). Note that this is a L-1 vote.

Uh ohs, SC is crashing and burning at an alarming rate, better get back on that wagon quick! But remember everyone, this is the L-1 vote, don't lynch him before he has time to fakeclaim something.

You're right, it's much better not to say anything so that he might be quicklynched

You know, the whole I'm-not-scummy-look-at-him thing in your last post. I don't know that I feel it's a scumtell, but I certainly don't think it helps the town.

Meh. The two things really weren't connected. I see where you're coming from though.

Ythill makes a great point against Cephrir, and all he can really do is acknowledge that Y is right on and hope it gets forgotten about.

There was nothing to defend from.

Unvote

, and dammit. I don't believe SC at all but it's still not a good plan to lynch him.

Sweet, my scum power role partner gets to live another day! But he'll obviously be dead sooner rather than later, so better remind everyone that I still think he's scum.

Or alternatively, lynching claimed docs is usually not a good play. Why aren't you suspicious of everyone else who did this?

FoS MM

for being SC's scumbuddy.

Setting up the fall guy

Are you kidding me? It's called having a suspect. If anything that's exactly what you did to me yesterday.

Cephrir, you FoS'd MiteyMouse specifically for being my scumbuddy. How can you accuse player X of being player Y's scumbuddy when player Y's alignment is not confirmed?

SC helps set up the fall guy

I don't see how this quote from SC has much of anything to do with what I said.

Overdefensiveness if not a scumtell, it's a natural reaction. And yes, we do have an all but confirmed scum. His name is StrangerCoug.

Remember guys, I never stopped thinking he was scum!!!

Neither did anyone!

@Apoc, Ceph, Jazz - Who is your top suspect, and what is preventing a vote?

Assuming you mean top non-SC suspect, that'd be MM. I'm not voting her because it looks like it's pointless. I'd vote Apoth if I knew how many votes he had.

Eh, Apoth is my second suspect so he's OK with me honestly.

Thats strange.

The latter quote discounts SC as a possible lynch for the day.

I went away this weekend and nothing happened. Yay, I guess.

Is that L-1? I'm willing to hammer, I'm done with both Apoth and this day.

I'm trying to figure out where you started thinking Apoth was likely to be scum, but all I can find is your comment that he's "imploding." Yays, stupid townies are easy mislynches!

I think I stated several times that he was either my 2nd/3rd suspect, which changed a few times. Also, imploding means imploding scum.

Seeing as I'm voting MM I think it's obvious I think MM is scummier than Apoth, but I'm fine with lynching Apoth too as I've stated a lot of times.

All you've said up to this point about MM is that she's obviously got to be SC's scumpartner, and yes you've stated lots of times you'd be willing to lynch Apoth, but thats literally

all

you've said about him.

Are you saying that agreeing with cases is a scumtell?

I wouldn't call SC the easy lynch, its actually proving difficult to convince enough people to vote for him.

Hey, Cephrir, you're theoretically convinced enough that SC is scum to be voting me because I'm supposed to be his scumbuddy. Shouldn't you be helping lynch him before you try to lead a lynch based on positively knowing his alignment?

I've said quite a few times now that that's not my reason for voting MM/you. It's just a comment I made based on my belief that both of you are scum, it has nothing to do with links between the two of you. Well, there are some links, but that was not a huge factor.

That said, SC is a good lynch today as well. I'd like to know tomorrow why you think I'm scum, OGML, but I'll go with it. SC's more likely scum IMO than Apoth, and lynching you doesn't seem like it's going to happen. I still think you and SC are both scum. Let's face it, that would be a pretty good bus right now.

But it's not like the scum would ever kill a hypothetically town SC anyway.

Unvote, Vote SC

With all the parading around declaring SC obvscum after the doc claim you could hardly get away with NOT bussing him here, but I like how you try to paint my entry as a brilliant bus strategy.

Now, go go Cephrir wagon.

Wel that's probably what it was.

So judging by the fact that others are voting me, I take it quoting a whole bunch of posts by someone and then putting fake scummy motives behind them constitutes a case now. It looks to me like OGML came into this game knowing he was a likely target for the following day and decided to find someone to push ridiculously hard in order to avoid his own lynch. I don't recall you always being this overconfident in your suspects in other games I've played/modded that involved you and I think you know that you need that element to get someone other than yourself lynched today. That way when I turn up town you can make it out as though I was so scummy that I deserved to be lynched anyway... I can see it now.

[OhGodMyLife]

I don't recall you always being this overconfident in your suspects in other games I've played/modded that involved you and I think you know that you need that element to get someone other than yourself lynched today.

Please refer to my play in your own modded game, Mafia 76, in particular the wall-o-text style attacks wherein I nitpick quotes and assign motives to the player in question in a way very, very similar to what I've done here with you. I've played like this for a long time, and seeing as it was a game you were modding so you knew the entire time that I was town, I would think you would remember that instead of trying to make the very manner in which I've attacked you seem scummy.

But then again, I don't blame you, you're just scum in this game.

[Elmo]

Yeah, but I had a reason.

And why do you assume that qwints does not? It looks like when you do it, it's helpful because you have a reason; when someone does it to you, it's unhelpful. That's roughly what you've said. Yes?

Ceph, what do you think are the strongest reasons to believe Apoth is scum?

[Cephrir]

Please refer to my play in your own modded game, Mafia 76, in particular the wall-o-text style attacks wherein I nitpick quotes and assign motives to the player in question in a way very, very similar to what I've done here with you. I've played like this for a long time, and seeing as it was a game you were modding so you knew the entire time that I was town, I would think you would remember that instead of trying to make the very manner in which I've attacked you seem scummy.

Yeah, but even then you didn't seem as sure as you are now, with one exception (Serous).

And why do you assume that qwints does not? It looks like when you do it, it's helpful because you have a reason; when someone does it to you, it's unhelpful. That's roughly what you've said. Yes?

If he can give me a good reason then I'll be OK with it.

Ceph, what do you think are the strongest reasons to believe Apoth is scum?

I really don't think he is anymore.

[OhGodMyLife]

Please refer to my play in your own modded game, Mafia 76, in particular the wall-o-text style attacks wherein I nitpick quotes and assign motives to the player in question in a way very, very similar to what I've done here with you. I've played like this for a long time, and seeing as it was a game you were modding so you knew the entire time that I was town, I would think you would remember that instead of trying to make the very manner in which I've attacked you seem scummy.

Yeah, but even then you didn't seem as sure as you are now, with one exception (Serous).

I am as sure of your alignment in this game as I was of Serous' in Mafia 76.

Ceph, what do you think are the strongest reasons to believe Apoth is scum?

I really don't think he is anymore.

What changed to cause your opinion of Apothecary to change? As far as I can tell, you were happily willing to see Apoth lynched yesterday, while at the same time insisting that you were 100% sure SC was scum. Now SC is dead and confirmed to be scum, and you suddenly back off of Apoth altogether?

[OhGodMyLife]

Oh hey Cephrir is at L-1. Time to claim.

[Cephrir]

What changed to cause your opinion of Apothecary to change? As far as I can tell, you were happily willing to see Apoth lynched yesterday, while at the same time insisting that you were 100% sure SC was scum. Now SC is dead and confirmed to be scum, and you suddenly back off of Apoth altogether?

Well, I doubt all 3 of my suspects were actually scum, and I suspect you (more because of MM than you) more than Apoth. Besides, his giving-up thing strikes me as genuine now. I suppose it's still a possibility that he's scum, but I doubt it.

Wow, L-1 already. Unfortunately, I'm a townie.

[Corvuus]

hm.

I would like to hear from Macavitylock about all of this. Especially since he is being painted as being tomorrow's potential lynch so he needs to speak up 'now'.

Corvuus

[qwints]

happy scumday cephrir.

Why'd you push the ogml case so hard if you didn't find his actions suspicious? MM's only crime was lurking.

[MacavityLock]

hm.

I would like to hear from Macavitylock about all of this. Especially since he is being painted as being tomorrow's potential lynch so he needs to speak up 'now'.

Corvuus

Yeah, I know. I've been busy. I promise a substantive post by Thursday.

Quick hits: I'm going to go through everything that Apoth has said again, but right now there's very little that strikes me as something that couldn't come from SC's scumbuddy, especially given that SC was a RB.

I'm very worried about OGML setting me up for tomorrow. As far as I can tell, he has nothing against me except for some links to Ceph, and we still don't know whether he's scum or not. So, unless you have some evidence against me OGML, you're making the same case against me that some people made against MM/you.

My feelings on Ceph: I was completely on board with pretty much all of his play yesterday until the end of the day, when he was so hesitant with his vote and all. I need to re-read him in light of SC-scum.

[Apothecary]

It seems that we're pushing the Cephrir case along very quickly. Shouldn't we give him alittle more time to try and defend himself.

[Cephrir]

happy scumday cephrir.

Why'd you push the ogml case so hard if you didn't find his actions suspicious? MM's only crime was lurking.

I beg to differ. MM was significantly scummier than your average lurker.

It seems that we're pushing the Cephrir case along very quickly. Shouldn't we give him alittle more time to try and defend himself.

I'd agree, but I've done pretty much everything I can.