All right, let's go through this point-by-point. Sorry about the length, it takes a wall to rebut a wall.
So, Umlaut is scum.
This is false!
Look at his posts between 53 and 94. Just look at them. They are expert distancing and trying to appear town.
Yes, please go look at them. Since they're so damning you'd think Aristo would quote or at least link them, but nope!
In
58 I ask Lycan to explain his vote on ASP
In
61 I explictly say why I think ASP is scum (and why I'm not voting him)
In
72 and
74 I say why 0x40 is also a good wagon
In
76 I ask GL for links to past games where ASP was lynchbait
In
79 and
94 I actually look at those games and say what I've found.
I assume it's 76 and 79 Aristo is talking about here, so why not just say "posts 76 and 79" instead of asking you to go through two pages?
He went back to read old ASP games, which is something I've seen get townread in the past, especially when it turns out the one he did it on is scum. [But] what did he gain from this reread? Not a hell of a lot. Just that he could vote there, but could also vote 0x40. Like, he is trying to apply pressure to the wagon without voting it, and while softly pushing people onto another.
The first sentence of this accusation is hilarious. It's basically saying I'm scum for doing something that's usually a towntell.
Reread those posts and you'll see I was arguing that ASP's meta is
not
exonerating evidence as GL suggested. That is:
- I say ASP would be a good lynch
- GL says "We should be cautious because he's lynchbait"
- I
reject
his evidence for that and argue that no, we don't
need to be especially cautious
That series of posts could just as well be used to make a case that I'm town and trying to use them to prove I'm scum smacks of motivated reasoning.
In post 105, Ümläüt wrote:Hi, Mav.
I'd like to know who if anyone is townreading ASP right now and why. Obviously if you think he's town you should be trying to keep us from mislynching; but just as importantly, if his wagon goes to a lynch unchallenged, it will be hard for town to draw much associational data from it regardless of the flip.
This is hard posturing. He is saying "ASP is scummy" without saying it, and trying to goad people into townreading the slot (either so he can scumread them on "associatives" or to avoid the lynch). It appears that Umlaut had little faith in ASP and decided to set their distance up early to avoid complications.
How does saying "Does anyone townread ASP?" goad people into townreading ASP? I was trying to get a sense because no one had actually said they thought ASP was probably town at that point, which makes it hard to do much analysis of the wagon if he flips. You're damn right I wanted to form reads based on ASP associatives, just without the quotation marks.
107 follows as another subtle defense. He doesn't shoot down main reasons for ASP scumreads (probably because he already knew his alignment) and instead is picking at all the small things to keep damage to a minimum.
This is a major misrep. I notice once again you chose not to quote this post.
People were
townreading
ASP for his
100 (specifically "Guilty, please don't defend me") because it didn't make sense for scum. I responded that it doesn't make sense for town
or
scum. Therefore it's not a reason to change reads on him. This is maybe not obvious when reading the post in isolation because the last sentence is sort of dissonant with that, but it should be clear when reading what I was responding to. Once again the effect of this post was (ideally) to prevent ASP from getting undue town cred.
This progression makes no sense to me:
[stuff]
He totally disregards the mention of ASP and focuses, once again, on 0x40, who is probably the easiest counterwagon to push at this point.
Which, might I add, is exactly what he does. His reads list in
155 has Scum!ASP and 0x40 in the bottom tier, but 0x40, who has done nothing of value yet, if the one he wants to lynch. This is pushed hard through the next posts, and all of this just happens to directly follow the VC where ASP is at L-1. Probably set him into panic mode where a final push against the ASP lynch couldn't hurt, especially since he's been deemed scum anyway by Umlaut at this point. The push is continued on DLA for consistency's sake I imagine.
The mention of ASP you're talking about is GL telling us to stop talking so much about ASP and talk more about our other reads. Which I did. How is this hard to follow? You've even quoted me saying that "too easy"
is not
a good reason not to lynch ASP.
I love the misleadingly true statement "happens to directly follow the VC where ASP is at L-1." The VC he refers to is
150. ASP had been at L-1 since
70. There was a votecount posted in
77, almost immediately after which I said it was a good wagon and I was happy with a lynch on it. Then, three pages and three IRL days later, I panicked? Cool story, bro.
[post=Upon the "vagueclaim" by DLA, he votes me, then ASP immediately after. I find this weird. Like, very much so. He was distancing from him with this vote, as I mentioned before, and didn't push for the lynch. If he'd really wanted it, he'd have brought up his prior case again and tried to make happen. Instead, we get nothing of the sort.]Upon the "vagueclaim" by DLA, he votes me, then ASP immediately after. I find this weird. Like, very much so. He was distancing from him with this vote, as I mentioned before, and didn't push for the lynch. If he'd really wanted it, he'd have brought up his prior case again and tried to make happen. Instead, we get nothing of the sort.[/post]
We were under extreme deadline pressure. The last few hours of the day are not a time to try and change people's hearts, they're a time to negotiate based on their existing reads. Everyone who has played more than two games of Mafia knows this.
After the BTD claim, he became very interested in the positions of the PRs (likely to try and figure it out in relation to ASP's) as seen in 540. This directly follows a fake town-slip in
538 where he tries to pull a third PR claim out (knowing it would never happen).
I don't know what you're accusing me of here. I said one thing about the position of the PRs and it was "Answer DarkLight's question." Re. the "fake town-slip," let's take away the presumption that I'm faking and see what's left: "This directly follows a town-slip where he tries to pull a third PR claim out." How is this even an accusation?
Uh-oh! Let's see what it is then.
He throws shade at our claimed PR DLA making a vanity vote on ASP. This sets him up to go with the flow the next day when ASP set up to counterclaim. This was obviously premeditated and organized here.
So you thought Darklight's post there was good? Or that I shouldn't have voted ASP? Which of the two things is scummy, calling bad posts bad or voting for scum?
In post 627, Ümläüt wrote:ASP, this is why you DON'T DISAPPEAR IN THE LAST FEW HOURS OF THE DAY
This is either an extremely badly faked reaction or scum frustration at their partner being let out. Or both. Probably both.
This is just an assertion so I can just respond with an assertion. No, it's not.
Post-claim,
629 is also quite fake. He "knows which claim he likes better" but waits until he knows which way everyone is going before he actually makes the vote. Because of this he can still get townpoints for "trying to get info out of him before making it obvious" while actually playing it slow so he can gauge the town and possibly hailmary save his partner.
Yes, this was a pretty clever plan. The cleverest part was how I then went and slipped that I liked DLA's claim better and voted ASP, before anyone actually weighed in except Snake (who anyone could have predicted would keep his vote on ASP).
He then thrown shade at DLA for forgetting ASP was counterclaiming RB, and uses his well set up ASP pushes from earlier to clear him of the negative connotations of it! This is really good scumplay, Umlaut. I really am impressed by it. He continues pushing against the lynch slowly in
677 after being shut down for being called out in
669 for exaggerating his earlier push on ASP. This is where he also shifts the blame onto DLA again. This is so scummy it hurts.
He's distancing, trying to avoid the lynch, and trying to get townpoints for the lynch all at once! This is scum caught in a hard spot trying all angles!
I would appreciate your admiration a lot more if you were mistaken town instead of lying scum.
I'm not going to apologize for trying to make sure we lynch the right person in mylo.
Fastforward to today.
I could talk about a couple things, but the main two posts that are the worst things are the following:
In post 739, Ümläüt wrote:I wish I could tell you "Here's a super awesome reason you should just go ahead and hammer Aristo," but I don't have a super awesome reason, just PoE (which is obviously a bit easier from my position with a conftown who isn't me).
I guess if you're 70-80% sure Aristo is scum, you might as well vote
if you don't see any argument changing your confidence by more than 20-30%.
In post 741, Ümläüt wrote:I'm kind of unnerved that Aristo hasn't actually voted me. Either he thinks there's a serious chance that Snake is scum (and I would love to hear that case if so), or he's holding out for a chance to quickhammer whatever wagon pops up.
The first is a call for GL to hammer me and end the game before I can respond. This Is Scum!
Town would want to have me come in here and talk. Town would want to be 100% sure. Scum just want that hammer to fall so they can claim their prize!
You are completely failing to acknowledge that I am (nearly) 100% sure, because I am the only other suspect. I know I'm not scum, I know GL isn't scum, and I'm confident Snake isn't scum. Therefore it's you. I don't need to hear your case to know that.
Good use of bolding by the way. I say "If you don't believe anything will make Aristophanes stop being your top scumread, you should hammer," and you report this as my saying "You should hammer." I can't be mad at you for this, you're just trying to win, but it's a misrep plain and simple.
The second is a hard discredit. He wants me to make a vote so he can call it scum. He is pushing again for the game to end before I can quickhammer, which there is no chance of me even doing. These posts are the nails in his coffin and blatantly agitated scum who wants to end the game!
You want to know why I made that post?
Because no one had posted in over 24 hours and it was the only thing I could think of to discuss.
I would ask you to explain exactly how I'm supposed to discredit you by getting you to vote me, given that you have no one else to vote, but of course the answer would just be bullshit, so there's no need.
