Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I have searched and received a Resuscitation Kit.

Feysal's idea in #718 is not a terrible plan to follow regarding the situation about confirming Benmage. Feysal's plan in where one person should prevent Fate's death by rezzing him while the other rezz a person of their choice, but I would like to add that the person should not reveal his rezz target (At least unless he has a very convincing reason why otherwise) to help minimize the chance of scum WIFOMing the town in the Night Kills. I personally will volunteer to protect Fate if we go through this plan. ReaperCharlie, if town, should protect a player he believes to be town that isn't Fate (Although not MUST protect a player who isn't Fate that he believes to be town, if he's sure that Fate can get targetted for a kill second over.) This can not only confirm Benmage as town, but possibly prevent a Ritual Kill.

That being said, it is not perfect either. We have to remember that the Cult can very well choose to kill Fate as well to ensure that he is dead regardless of the rez protection. If one-third of the cult agrees to kill Fate, then that counts as if Fate will being killed twice, once by Benmage, another by the cult. Add to the fact that if they have two-third of the players participating in the ritual, it can be a kill on Fate three times, acting like two kills attempts by the cult on Fate and once by Benmage. That would make it very difficult for town to save Fate-town if Fate will targetted for a kill three times and if he is targetted for a kill two time, it would still be a difficult challenge as ReaperCharlie would have to decide between protecting another person or Fate.

Positive of plan:

- Can confirm that Benmage did stalk Fate or make him likely cult if Fate does get rezzed but Benmage does not attempt to kill Fate as promised.
- If Fate isn't targetted by the cult, this can possibly prevent a cult kill on another person as well.

Negative of plan:

- Fate is still in danger of being NK'd with the cult riding on Benmage's attempt to kill Fate as well.

Overall:

We have to consider that Fate can still be NK'd by cult's targeting them as well, but I am willing to take the risk and go forward with this plan unless anyone else has any objections. Although I would recommend ReaperCharlie protecting other people due to me planning to rezz Fate, giving him the option to help rezz Fate if he feels it's necessary is good as well.

Regarding Grave Robbing, I agree with Wickedestjr's #642 in that Benmage should be the grave robber after confirming him this upcoming Night, however, I spot a problem with this plan. Night 1, while Benmage is trying to kill Fate and Fate is rezz'd (Protected), who is going to serve as the grave robber Night 1 to rob the grave of the lynched player today? I'm not in favor of supporting Furcolow due to reasons below, yet I don't want a likely townie robbing graves as well. I personally think a selected person that is scummy would be a good choice, although we need to make sure that the person doesn't have equipments that can help town. Based off my suspicions, ReaperCharlie has a rezz kit, so he's not a viable grave robber for the time. Benmage should try to kill Fate tonight and a rezz being used on Fate, so he grave robbing would be a terrible idea. El Goosuki have a very erratic play style and to me, a type of player I would not want to grave rob. So out of my suspicion list, Bowser is the best choice. Although CSL is known to be scummy regardless of alignment, Untrod Tripod is a much better player then CSL so when I think about it, the disadvantage of having CSL in the game is outweighed by a reliable player that I consider to be a decent player on this site.

I am not reading SSBF's #491 wall of scum. The Furcolow vote is horribad though.

You claim that you have not read #491. Then how would you be able to say that my vote on Furcolow is terrible if you haven't read that post, let alone the entire post? You could say that I was voting a VI, but I at least tried to justify my vote to the best of my ability. That being said, I have already unvoted Furcolow, but I would still like to know why my vote for him is more likely to come out of scum.

Bad idea. Having to launder every night that you are bloody means prevents you from performing more beneficial night actions. It's not the worst insanity to take, but there are much better ones. Did you see my list of insanities that would be good to take?

Reading the rules again, I can't really find any good counterargument for this except that we wouldn't be able to use the Resuscitation Kit. Based off what I've seen from your list, I obviously agree with twitchy. I also think that solist and marked are good insanities to take. I don't think Taboo is a great insanity to take, thought. He/she is choosing to give up an action to take which is likely to be beneficial to town if we have equipment for them (I can only find this good for grave robbing). Should be pushed on for later when the better insanities have already been take {Twitchy, solist, marked are my personal choices}.

Do you think it means he is town?

In terms of that event, I am taking it with a grain of salt. I believe that the event mostly confirms Furcolow (After some explanation from The Lost Butterfly/AurorusVox/Trilobite, I found my vote on him to serve no purpose due to being mostly confirmed town), but it is not signficant evidence pointing toward El Goosuki town. It's a good thing that it mostly confirmed Furcolow, but it is possible that even if Furcolow is town, El Goosuki-scum could be fake claim on hearing noise to gain town creds and if lynched/NK'd and flipped cult, can use it to turn against Furcolow-town (Although as another person has mentioned, it's possible that they're both cult if El Goosuki is cult as well, so a El Goosuki's cult flip is a double-edge sword on Furcolow's alignment).

Essentially, we're arguing the same thing but on different players. I see Furc's claim as practically watertight, but I see a lot of wiggle room for Benmage to fakeclaim. You see Benmage's claim as practically watertight and wiggle room on Furc to fakeclaim.

Furcolow's claim does have a little of wiggling room in it. See response to Wickedestjr's second quote on me for explanation.

Furcolow, think you'd be up for the job? We'd of course plan out additional graverobs for the other graves, but I only want one necrophiliac. The catch is that you obviously wouldn't want solist, but we could probably give you special permission to grab voting-based insanities since you have nothing to prove.

Not really agreeing with Furcolow being a grave robber. From what we've seen, he seems like a decent grave robber, but I object to Furcolow grave robbing because if he is Investigator and forgets to rob a grave of a likely dead scum, it's more likely out of his VIness then scum intentions. While with Benmage, he is a lot better at Mafia and if he fails to grave rob, it's easier to assume that he's a Muderer/Cult who wants to keep information hidden. If he is Investigators, he is more reliable then Furcolow despite his scummy behavior today.

Are you fucking kidding me......points conceded.....you must be fucking joking....what did I claim stalk on PG 2,3?? You two .....hilarious.

You already claimed to have stalked Fate Night Zero, you saying that they are wrong is false. It isn't a main discussion topic for no reasons either.

Since BM has stalked Fate, we can hold his ass accountable if Fate does not die. If fate gets ressed, we lynch fate, and if he's town we have BM as a caught scum. Hell, we might lynch BM instead of Fate if Fate doesnt die. If Fate doesn't die, and someone openly ressed, then we either lynch fate/the resser. This is our D2 plan imo.

What's wrong with this plan you proposed:

1. Why should we hold Benmage responsible for not killing Fate successfully if Benmage targets him anyway and I and/or ReaperCharlie rezz Fate? The purpose of Benmage attempting a kill on Fate with me and/or ReaperCharlie rezzing Fate is to confirm Benmage as an investigator, not to lynch him if the proposed plan I agree with the most goes accordingly.

2. When does Fate being rezzed mean he has to be lynched Day 2? It doesn't confirm Fate to be scum or town, we will still have to watch him due to his behavior in-game.

3. If we do lynch Fate Day 2 and he flips investigator, I don't see how that makes Benmage caught cult. All it proves is that we mislynched the wrong person

4. Your plan contradicts itself. You say that we should hold Benmage accountable if Fate doesn't die, yet we should lynch Fate Day 2 if Fate is rezzed. Too much cognitive dissonance for me to agree with your plan here.

Or; we could lynch Benmage, hope to find a cult member, and let Fate live happily ever after like the townie he is?

Giving Benmage a night to basically confirm himself as not-cult is a much, much better idea. Lynching him today in hopes that he will flip cult will be a waste of time if Benmage is actually an investigator. I'm not following your logic here.

[ReaperCharlie]

@ SSBF:

Did you play SAII? Cause I didn't. There must be something I'm missing here, but I'm preeeetty sure I want Fate to live for now, sooo please point out to me where my logic is screwy because I'm not gonna go through and read the whole ruleset again in addition to your post.

So, with that being said:

Your plan

gives the Cult a chance to kill Fate, right? But only if they've crafted a fetish for him already? Or can the Cult participate in a Ritual on anyone they want, regardless of fetishes crafted? If they can, then wasting Fate AND a Res kit just to confirm Benmage (who would then be 1 murder away from Psychopathy anyway) seems like a PRETTY bad plan to me.

On the other hand:

My plan

gets rid of the stupid half of a very LOUD combination of people, saves Fate's life, and we've still got our Res kit. However, the Cult may still try to kill Fate (I'd rather Fate than a number of other people, though. sorry Fate ); that we don't really have any 'confirmed townies' (something I'd be willing to forgo to get Benmage out of the way, and free Fate up to scumhunt without worrying about some idiot killing him that night based on a childish vendetta).

Still though, I think there's a better plan out there.

As in chess:

When you think you see a good move, wait; there may be a better one. - Emanuel Lasker

[Furpants_Tom]

We're only missing

Furpants

claim for the final list.

Sorry, thought I had.

Didn't ward.

Mom the other kids were chucking bricks at cars on the highway … what did you expect me to do not join in?

Oh man, we're playing car-brick and no-one told me?

I can't believe that I am saying this, but I think letting the kill go through would be good for the town, even if Fate is town. This early in the game a confirmed non-cultist would be very beneficial to the town, as it is one less person that is possibly scum (yes I realize that was very repetitive). After that, I think we should put BenMage on Grave Robbing duty, which there is a limit to the number that you can do in one night, last game it was 2. If anything BenMage should be warded tonight to prevent the scum from killing our possible confirmed town.

Our of curiousity; do you think it'd be more beneficial to have a confirmed townie; or one less scum skill in the game? Because if we rez Fate tonight and the cult decides to cover for him by using their ritual to fake a murder, then instead of two dead townies, we have none. Seems to me like this would be the ideal outcome...

[hitogoroshi]

I haven't finished my Seacore v. Babyspice and Spyrex v. AV things yet - and likely won't for a few more hours - but I have something I need to say right away.

Bad: Scummy player selected to rob grave, scum get corpse dust and equipment if we're

right

for the cheap cost of one insanity.
Good: Two townies players rob grave, no one gets anything as long as we're right on one of the two, two insanities.
Great: Townie we're sure of robs grave. Cultists not only get nothing, they have to take an insanity on the chin or else we get equipment, one insanity.

The problem with "Great" is that it's terrible if we're wrong on the townie. Furcolow doesn't want to do it, so I guess the question is, is there anyone besides him we feel safe calling "town" and making our graverobber? If not, it's not a huge deal, we can just have two people bounce the grave.

---

I still don't want Benmage to go through with the murder. If he and Fate were both under intense suspicion, it might be worth it. But they're both pretty likely town. Risking the death of one pretty likely town (with losing a Rez kit being our BEST case scenario) just to make another pretty likely town a confirmed town? I don't buy it. It's not worth either losing a townie or blowing a protect just to get the equivalent of a single investigation on a likely town slot.

[Fate]

Reaper did you just call me obvown but there are better people to rez?

....

[ReaperCharlie]

Reaper did you just call me obvown but there are better people to rez?

....

No, read my post again. And try to use your SUPERBRAIN this time.
What I said was that I wanted to keep you alive, and kill Benmage.



It doesn't GET any better than that, from your normal RAGEFATE perspective.
If suddenly you don't like that plan, my only conclusion is... you must be cult.

Have a nice day.

[Fate]

I don't like the plan that lynches Benmage today, as much satisfaction as it would bring, so sure-I must be cult.

[ReaperCharlie]

*beats Fate over the head with his own RAGEPOST PROPAGANDA booklet*

[VP Baltar]

AusVox feels like he's sucking up to Lost Butterfly in 219. Basically agrees with anything and everything they say. Meh.

First of all, what was the point of mentioning this if you have nothing to say about it?
Secondly, couldn't the same thing be said of you? You pretty much did the same thing to Furcolow:

First of all, I pointed out his sucking up...how is that having nothing to say? You think I approve of his sucking up and I wanted to give him kudos for it? Second(ly), no. Just because I think Furcolow can play well at times does not mean I am sucking up to him by agreeing with him, which is what AV did. In fact, I think he's said some pretty dumb things in this game (shocker). I don't even see how you are equating my assessment of Furc's general skill level to AV following Lost Butterfly around.

Why would furc claim to have warded somebody not in the game, unless he thought they were in the game?

You guys need to use your gorram brains.

Hey this guy gets it! I think use of any brains at all would be good. I don't know why so many people are insisting that Furc is scum when essentially everything he's done this game MAKES NO SENSE AS SCUM. Why in the hell would he volunteer information that would only make him look silly when he could easily lie and have no attention on him? Because he's town, that's why.

~~~

I've come up with an awesome new rule for this game. From now on, everyone stops saying "SHUT THE EFF UP, I'M CONFIRMED TOWN." It is quite clear to me that you folks don't understand the set up. Like, at all. Try the rules again. And then read them again after that. If you make it to like Day 5 and beyond with several things triangulating your town status, then you can start calling yourself confirmed town. Until then, you're not. No sign up thread disproves this. /rant

Still reading, still catching up. This is my personal hell. I hope in the next 9 pages, the arguments get much better.

[Fate]

*beats Fate over the head with his own RAGEPOST PROPAGANDA booklet*

THE FUCK DID YOU DO THAT FOR YOU WORTHLESS, SPINELESS, ANTI-TOWN SON...

Yeah just kidding. Yeah I ragepost, the hell does that have to do with me being anti-town just for the fucking fun of it? Benmage isn't the lynch today, even if he kills me he isn't the lynch tomorrow, there are better ways to spend a D1. Seacore vs. AV vs. Baby Spice will be very interesting after a few more flips.

[Fate]

The posts VP chooses to post "whislt catchin up" leave me underwhelmed. Throw him in the "scum who claimed noise" category of players.

*taps foot*

[VP Baltar]

99.7% of the shit in this thread is not worth commenting on at all. You're lucky you're getting anything.

I voted Bowser on like page three and I think that is a better case than pretty much anything you've said all game.

*plays banjo*

[Fate]

As far as I'm aware the shit that Bowser has crapped onto this game has been CSL, and there's been 80% OF AWESOMENESS PAGES (if you have 9 pages left, then you really have no excuse. The first 10

i might give you

)

And, oh is that rage I feel boiling? Let me go fucking check

[Fate]

Nevermind I didn't give a better reason for voting Bowser, BUT I HAVE MADE SOLID CASES/POINTS.

If you think a page 3 vote is still worthy than...

Nah, you're town play is good Baltar. Your scum play is apparently very lacking though. Were you scum in mafia at the 11th hour? Remind me.

[totallynotmafia]

So, do you have any reads on anybody other than me? Also, what do you think of xvart posting the noise and ward lists?

No, not yet, well not scummy reads anyway, certain things people have done/said lead me to believe they are more likely to be town, but I'm not big on stating these in the thread, not unless they are in danger of being lynched anyway. The noise list is obviously good because it shows the people who are possibly in danger and thus narrows the list of potential protects for those with rez kits. As I said in my first post I wasn't too keen on everyone claiming wards/no wards as it basically shows scum who the "PRs" are...although I guess some of the investigator no wards could be stalks. I guess also if everybody claims their target for their wards that should narrow the list of potential protects as well.

So, we are 26 pages into the game and you have one scumread. WOW!

Yeah, 26 pages in like 2 days, and 2 weekdays at that, i don't know about everyone else but so far I've been forced to mainly skim to stay on top of things, the main reason I picked up on your thing was that you mentioned my name.

Concerning xvart, I don't believe that you wouldn't have any problem with him. You suspect players that try to act pro-town. xvart gives a noise and ward list and you don't suspect it at all. I'm starting to get the impression that there are very few things a player could say to raise your suspicions.

There's a difference, that list will actually benefit town, so while it's possible that xvart may be cult trying to look town by doing it, it's just as likely he is town genuinely trying to help out, so basically it's a null tell. However, if it was the only thing he was posting...

Let me highlight the difference:
- Person A berates the town for poor activity, saying it will hurt their chances
- Person B berates the town for poor activity, saying it will hurt their chances, while not actually contributing anything themself

While both could be opportunistic scum, it can be seen that Person B is more likely to not be genuine about helping the town. This is why your statement "but I would love to hear more from El Goosuki, Furpants_Tom (I noticed he posted, but I haven't read any of his posts yet), Plum, Seacore, SSBF, totallynotmafia, and Triglav in particular" piqued my interest. My first thought was "wait a minute...I've posted like three times already...and it hasn't even been 24 hours since the thread opened...and there's already like 10+ pages.....and he wants to hear (best old guy from Oliver Twist impression) MORE????? And he wants to hear more from somebody who he hasn't even read their posts yet? That doesn't make sense! This reminds me of when I was scum in random mafia and stated I wanted to hear more from 4 people before the day was out to try and look town...but at least it made sense there because they hadn't posted any content at all...here it is just ridiculous!"

So, like I said, your explanation is plausible because it could just be semantics, but I'm not sure yet. Perhaps I'll go through and look at some of your other games.

And why do you have to have a read on everyone and sort out everyone into scum and town so early in the game?

Why not? I think I made that post after reading at least 15 pages. That's enough to have plenty of reads.

Yet you're clearly not happy with those plenty of reads, because you then go on to ask for more from those you don't yet have a read on...why do you need to have a read on everyone in your first post? And why bother stating everybody you don't have a read on? Seems kind of redundant.

And like I said, I'm thinking now that the whole rezzing Fate plan is a bad idea, it's not worth risking all the town rez kits being wasted on Fate just to clear BM.

I may be missing something, but why can't we just have one person rez Fate?

Ah yeah whoops I read resuscitation wrong, I thought it was the other way round like warding where your rez would fail if someone rezzed you, so cult could just potentially use rezzes as roleblocks. In that case like I said before it's probably worth it to use one rez kit to not only save someone who may end up being murdered anyway but also potentially either clear BM or catch him out in the lie. I'm surprised nobody else picked me up on that mistake.

I must admit, I'm starting to get the impression it's not just a rez kit or an insanity Fate is so worried about.

[Fate]

^a good example of an ACTUAL townie struggling to keep up

[VP Baltar]

Nevermind I didn't give a better reason for voting Bowser, BUT I HAVE MADE SOLID CASES/POINTS.

If you think a page 3 vote is still worthy than...

Nah, you're town play is good Baltar. Your scum play is apparently very lacking though. Were you scum in mafia at the 11th hour? Remind me.

I was.

What do you think has been your best case made this game? You can just point me to the post number and the player you feel you've singled out.

[Fate]

*goes to do what you just asked*

HEY WAIT A SECOND.

IS THIS SOME EXCUSE TO NOT CATCHUP ON THE THREAD AND HAVING ME SPOONFEED YOU POSTS THAT YOU CAN MAKE DIRECT COMMENTS ON?

NOT FALLIN FOR THAT BUSTER. THERES NO NEED:
1. get in a quibblin fight over whether your Bowser vote > entirety of my scumhunting
2. You said yourself you've been IGNORING MINE AND BENMAGE'S POSTS, so how the fuck could you even KNOW your Bowser vote was better than all the content I've provided?

+
You ignoring Ben+Fate's posts
+
"all the posts this game are shit"
=
Every non-Fate+Ben post being contentless and not worth commenting
=
BULLSHIT
=
VPScum

[SpyreX]

Every time I sit down this thread crushes my will.

Actually, I had formulated a plan for keeping him alive via resuscitation whilst still testing the validity of the kill even in the event of scumFate. AFAIK Fate would still receive the death PM and then the "revival" PM and so we could test the stalk claim AND keep Fate alive; if he's town, he tells the truth, and if he's scum and says he received no PM, we can test Benmage for blood. Did you skim over that bit?

... is this how this works?

If so, maybe MAAAYBBE I'll need to readjust.

That doesn't change that this:

Well, we probably have more than one Res. Kit and we can prevent the kill even if he tries. vOv

So, why do you want to lynch the person who can confirm that they are not affiliated with the cult?

Still bothers me. Why waste the Res Kits on a bad action?

What is the larger dealio with Stalks? I mean all this talk of stalk = town = profit suuree

isn't

seems like a bad idea and come wagon time if another stalk claim comes through?

"I have a problem. I NEED Benmage to carry out his kill tonight otherwise he drowns us in WIFOM stew. Do not want. On the other hand, am very much leaning Town on Fate. HALP."

There is no WIFOM. There is no stew.

Benmage, period, can not be left to endgame unless its a flat sweep. That's just how it is.

----

I can't believe that I am saying this, but I think letting the kill go through would be good for the town,

even if Fate is town.

This early in the game a confirmed non-cultist would be very beneficial to the town, as it is one less person that is possibly scum (yes I realize that was very repetitive). After that, I think we should put BenMage on Grave Robbing duty, which there is a limit to the number that you can do in one night, last game it was 2. If anything BenMage should be warded tonight to prevent the scum from killing our possible confirmed town.

No. NO.

Hmmm... Furcolow not playing with the town's best interest in mind, nor caring about town opinions. Also scheming his own plan. Furc - you should be our gravrobber, then you get the added bonus of getting to nine insanities faster to double stalk, and your grave robbing will tell you when you find any other murderers (pending you are the only one to rob grave) so you know who to target next.

Alright, have I missed something amazing? Because, if not, after a few things are cleared up, ohhh snap. Because I'm pretty sure the idea is Fur is the right bro for brobbing because

he is pretty clearly town and isn't already prepping down failure road.

My plan gets rid of the stupid half of a very LOUD combination of people, saves Fate's life, and we've still got our Res kit. However, the Cult may still try to kill Fate (I'd rather Fate than a number of other people, though. sorry Fate ); that we don't really have any 'confirmed townies' (something I'd be willing to forgo to get Benmage out of the way, and free Fate up to scumhunt without worrying about some idiot killing him that night based on a childish vendetta).

Still though, I think there's a better plan out there.

<3

I'll admit I had some worries reaper (which I'll get to) but they're gone now. GOD.

---

Now, ASIDE FROM ALL THAT.

Will someone please, please,

please

explain to me what in the hell this Seacore business is about? I'm flat missing it.

[Percy]

Vote Count

*whisper whisper*

Seacore - 5

(

ReaperCharlie

, hitorogoshi,

Furcolow

, Plum, ReaperCharlie, VasudeVa, AurorusVox)

AurorusVox - 3

(SpyreX,

Wickedestjr

, MagnaofIllusion, Fate)

Baby Spice - 2

(

AurorusVox

,

ReaperCharlie

, Benmage, Wickedestjr)

Furcolow - 1

(

kunkstar7

,

xvart

, Baby Spice,

Lost Butterfly

,

Seacore

,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

)

Bowser - 1

(VP Baltar,

VasudeVa

,

Fate

,

Plum

)

MagnaofIllusion - 1

(Trilobite,

AurorusVox

)

kunkstar7 - 1

(

Wingless

manho)

VasudeVa - 1

(Andrius)

xvart - 1

(Triglav)

SpyreX - 1

(Furpants_Tom)

Lost Butterfly - 1

(

Furcolow

, Furcolow)

Wickedestjr - 1

(totallynotmafia)
Fate - 0 (

Benmage

)

Not Voting - 9 (Bowser, El Goosuki, Feysal, kunkstar7, Lost Butterfly,

MagnaofIllusion

, rewq455, Seacore, Super Smash Bros. Fan,

Wickedestjr

, xvart)

@Mod: Will sociopath scum still have access to daytalk(but can't talk in it anymore?)

Correct.

@Mod: Are delayed Denial insanities gained during the night (as in the selectors insanity count goes up during the night) but selected in the morning? When does the persons insanity count go up in the order of action chart?

Insanities gained via Denial occur at the end of the

Night

, so after

the Ritual

resolves. I have edited the rules post to make this more explicit.

Do the side effects of actions, such as gaining an insanity for laundering when not bloody, resolve at the same time as the action or at the end of night?

When the action resolves; the order the

Night Actions

are presented in gives you the resolution order, and therefore the order that

Side Effects

manifest. For example, if a player is

Bloody

at the beginning of the

Night

and selects

Launder

, they will show up clean to

Investigate

actions that target them that

Night

.

Thank you to everyone who posts when they're going V/LA. I really appreciate it!

The deadline for

Day 1

is 5:00pm, Wednesday November 3rd default site time.

With 28 alive, 15 votes secures a Lynch.

[ReaperCharlie]

@ mod: Can you kindly fix SpyreX's tags in #743? ty

Done!

[Lost Butterfly]

AAAAAAAAAAH!

Sorry for this useless rant, but it's three-thirty in the morning right now, I can't think straight anymore and have to wake up in a few hours, and I've basically wasted my evening writing ginormous cases on people...only to realize halfway in the middle of writing them that I no longer believed that my target was guilty.

This is so demoralizing. I hate my slow and scattered brain. Every time I try to make a point on someone, my mind jumps to a completely unrelated thought about another player.

So my catch up post has devolved from "comment on everything of note in the game and analyze everyone's shift of opinions on Furcolow" to "ask a few relevant questions and comment on the major wagons as well as answer posts directed your way" to "only make cases on kunkstar, xvart, and VP Baltar" to "just get your damn vote on someone already." And now I don't even know who to vote any more!

Aaaaah. Should I even post my case on kunkstar, in which I expressed confidence that he was totally guilty and the difference in play between SAII and here was soooo obvious, but that I now no longer believe in that much because I realize I'd mentally exaggerated the shift in his opinions?

Um...as far as opinions I'm somewhat confident of, Faraday had a town read on SSBF earlier, and now I agree with him. Also, I think Benmage shouldn't go through with his Stalk (because what's the point of killing one player widely read as town just to confirm that another player read as town is really town), and SSBF should probably use his kit on Fate just in case Ben goes rogue, so that the rest of the town can coordinate their own resurrection targets.

Fuck it. I'll post some of what I've got because I'll be pissed if I wrote all that for nothing, but from now on, I'll leave the votes and opinions to Faraday and just stick to asking questions and trying to draw reads.

[AurorusVox]

... is this how this works?

According to SAII, that's how it works. The target receives different flavour depending on whether they're targeted by a murder or a ritual, and also is notified if they were resuscitated. Therefore if Fate is town and lives til tomorrow, he can tell us whether he was murdered or ritualised. If he's scum and lies, we can still check Benmage with the "Investigate" action N2 to see if he did in fact try to murder Fate (so long as he doesn't launder); and then we can prevent him from going murderer as others have suggested. The only place where this plan fails is if they're both scum.

Why waste the Res Kits on a bad action?

Because I once believed Fate was town. I'm not so sure now.* But I think keeping him alive and seeing what he tells us can get him cleared/caught either way.

*Furc's Scum (S)Quad is looking pretty interesting, so I'm starting to wonder if Fate might be cult after all. If he is cult, then he has to choose whether to tell the truth and give us a confirmed not-cult; or lie about it and get caught out. If enough people are FOR shooting but AGAINST res'ing, then I can let it go, but I'd prefer to err on the side of caution when it comes to killing...

What is the larger dealio with Stalks? I mean all this talk of stalk = town = profit suuree

isn't

seems like a bad idea and come wagon time if another stalk claim comes through?

I don't think any more people should stalk to confirm themselves; from now on, I'd treat stalk claims as cult trying to get a clear, especially after the trouble we're having with this one. Unless town sanctions a stalk/kill, I don't think people should set out of their own accord to do it. That way, if someone DOES stalk, we know they're trying to secretly go the murderer route.

"I have a problem. I NEED Benmage to carry out his kill tonight otherwise he drowns us in WIFOM stew. Do not want. On the other hand, am very much leaning Town on Fate. HALP."

There is no WIFOM. There is no stew.

Benmage, period, can not be left to endgame unless its a flat sweep. That's just how it is.

That was Plum's quote, so she might want to respond to this too.

Of course Benmage can't make it to endgame. But if we prevent his kill tonight, there is no way he can win as murderer until N8. We have PLENTY of time to lynch him before that.

[Wickedestjr]

Andrius, I asked for your scum games because there's reasons why I think your town here and I want to make sure these reasons don't apply to your behavior in your scum games.

Wicked, wtf are you smoking?
Post 377 (iso 65):

Hito, there is too much wine for me to not kill fate. Plus I don't have a town read on her. And it still confirms me.....

Post 496 (iso 66):

From PG 16 I am killing fate because there's too much wine not too and apparently to many idiots who can honestly believe this some sort of scum ploy..gg fail town.

Post 508(iso 69):

All that said. I am still killing fate.

I could ask you the same question. You weren't always supportive of the plan that involved you killing Fate. Several examples:

Could people please read the rules before they post. Wingless and Fate, I'm looking in your directions.

Why are you not

voting

Fate?

unvote

lets let benmage confirm himself imo

Why waste a confirmed town kill, on a confirmed cult.

This is where you need to stop being a constant VI and so people will stop advocating your policy lynch. Now revote.

I am confirming myself town. You know if you weren't scum(cult) this game you would've done the same. But I will enjoy the flailing until I either, kill you tonight...or moreover

hopefully lynch you.

The bolded parts are the important bits.

Also two people claimed to have Warded the same person. Guess what this could mean?

If you are saying what I think you are saying, then this is a very good point. xvart claimed to have warded MagnaofIllusion after Baby Spice did (if I remember correctly). In addition, despite having quite a few posts, it wasn't until page 25 or 26 that he actually claimed his ward target. Could be an indicator that he was waiting to see who other people had warded.

The whatcya talkin about willis...was me claiming

...not not understanding him..i than spelt it out. and Yeah Pg 3 like I said.

Explain how that was a claim.

[Wickedestjr]

We don't know if the reason Fate heard noise was because of stalk, fetish or both. If there is a fetish and the cult decides to use it, one res kit won't be enough. It might even be good play for the cult to do so, to mess with the whole plan of confirming Benmage.

However, if we do decide to resuscitate Fate, I don't see a problem in one or more players claiming to have res kits and declaring their intent to do it, so that other players with res kits can pick different targets. There is nothing that could stop their actions from having the desired effect.

But of course, the whole idea of wasting res kits to curb what is likely town-on-town violence is insane, as other players have said. We really should come up with a better plan.

This reasoning can apply to any player. I think we should have one person rez Fate because we know that Benmage is going to attack him if he isn't cult. Once we have Benmage's murder taken care of, Fate is just as likely to die from the ritual as anybody else that heard noise so it doesn't matter what the other players with rez kits choose to do.