NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Empire]

Day 5, Votecount 13

Ser Arthur Dayne (5)

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pieguyn, Casso the King of Seals, Sakura Hana, Ser Arthur Dayne, goodmorning

Titus (4)

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Ms Marangal, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Prophylaxis, KoreanBBQ

Prophylaxis (2)

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zMuffinMan, Titus

Not Voting (2)

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geists, Norlkaz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch! Deadline is on February 12th at 7:35 AM EST or in (expired on 2014-02-12 08:35:22).

Mod Notes

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N/A

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Welp, the Generic-Muffin interactions are practically non-existent, Generic basically ignores mufifn the whole game, asks Bert about his read on muffin once, and puts him in his lower tier of suspicions

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So, what point did you want to make about Geists? And why is Titus town?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

So, what point did you want to make about Geists?

That I'm paranoid as fuck about them.

[quote="In post 7202And why is Titus town?[/quote]
Well I already had a town-read on Cephrir, I think Generic's play there at the end points to Titus being town (yes you can argue through the layers of WIFOM), and I basically haven't seen Titus do anything scummy. Weird, yes, but not particularly scummy.

Here, I guess we'll do this for now

Pie
Proph, muffin
Geists, Norlkaz, Casso
F-16, KBBQ, Sakura
FM, Mara

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Ugh. My OCD compels me to fix this.

So, what point did you want to make about Geists?

That I'm paranoid as fuck about them.

And why is Titus town?

Well I already had a town-read on Cephrir, I think Generic's play there at the end points to Titus being town (yes you can argue through the layers of WIFOM), and I basically haven't seen Titus do anything scummy. Weird, yes, but not particularly scummy.

Here, I guess we'll do this for now

Pie
Proph, muffin
Geists, Norlkaz, Casso
F-16, KBBQ, Sakura
FM, Mara

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I knew I was forgetting something important >_>

Er... put Titus somewhere in the third tier?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

How did you develop a townread on Cephrir? All you said after your mega-argument with Cephrir is that he is "sadly" town. I don't get it. And I am completely discounting what Generic did after he got caught - it is null to me and WIFOM.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

How did you develop a townread on Cephrir? All you said after your mega-argument with Cephrir is that he is "sadly" town. I don't get it.

Well to be fair that was like half-faked just to get a reaction out of him, and the way he responded rubs me as town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay. I agree that scum would likely have let it go instead of going "you don't get to do that" but it is a small point and he really didn't push you much after the wagon dissipated and you called him town. I think if he was town and actually believed you were scum, he would be more persistent.

[geists]

Town, but I'd be a little more paranoid. I'd be wary that ffery and Nat are good players and keep an eye on them just in case.

My play would likely have been a lot different without DOMO targeting me night 1. I'm usually not an early investigative target at MS for some reason. I play differently when I'm coming under or expect to come under legitimate non-paranoia-based suspicion. I think getting investigated harmed my game, paradoxically. I play better when I make a reasonable target of suspicion, and I wind up being read solidly town because I earn it.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Norl mentioned it. I think most of us don't mind flipping BOTH Titus and Sad. What order they go is irrelevant. I just don't understand your need to stop the wagon.

If most of you are fine flipping BOTH then what does it matter that I, who am not, would rather do it starting with Ser Arthur? This isn't even an actual issue, it's like you're saying 'You want to eat an apple then a pear, and most of the rest of us don't care either way, so why can't you support eating the pear first and then the apple?' It literally makes no sense and has nothing to do with my stance.

I partly want to get Titus lynched over SAD because Casso doesn't want it, partly because SAD's frustration about the wagon on him feels town. I want to see where this goes, i.e. if Titus flips scum, I'd keep more of an eye on Casso. This also seems to be the first time this game Thor cared so much about who is lynched.

This is wrong on so many levels.

Also, not impressed that Nacho is posting elsewhere but not here. He is just allowing Thor to clown around and create chaos.

I am annoyed by that too - but I am specifically not clowning around (well, moreso than my usual baseline) what is your issue with me having a preference to the lynch order? You seem really frustrated that I'm not indifferent - shouldn't that please you because, depending on the flips, it's actually more info about me? I'm not even clowning, I'm stating specific goals and desires and trying to make them happen.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Well it's always to be expected that when people calm down their read will generally get weaker as they begin to question if they truly thought you were scum or just raging. In fact if anything I would expect scum's reads to be more static just because it would be much easier to keep going "SAD is scum" because you've already had a large argument that half the people didn't bother reading and assumed that your argument lead you to believe that way, rather than having to change reads and begin pushing elsewhere.

Pedit: @F-16

[Casso the King of Seals]

My play would likely have been a lot different without DOMO targeting me night 1. I'm usually not an early investigative target at MS for some reason. I play differently when I'm coming under or expect to come under legitimate non-paranoia-based suspicion. I think getting investigated harmed my game, paradoxically. I play better when I make a reasonable target of suspicion, and I wind up being read solidly town because I earn it.

You see this all the time whenever almost anyone is cop/gunsmith/et al cleared. They actually become town slugs more often than not.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah, I agree that being investigated or confirmed can change one's game. I think most people tend to keep their reads closer to their chest because there is less responsibility to look town and show everyone that you are town if you are confirmed. That lets them evaluate the game state while keeping their own thoughts secret and you certainly strike me as that type of player.

[geists]

Well, I hope I haven't been a slug, but yeah, I'm sure it's not uncommon to lose some of one's edge.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Fun fact - it's been well over a week since the last time Nacho posted in the QT, then it's just a stream of Thor posts, and then it's Thor talking about how he's posting now.
It's a pretty useless QT for that period.
Nacho is helluva bored or indifferent with the gamestate right now.

Oh...hey, look, we're a 289 page game, and unlike all of you a Hydra player who gets worn down has the ability to step away.
Shock.

We should have done more speed lynching when Thor was requesting it, then we'd have less lurka-derping now.

True story.

[geists]

Yeah, I agree that being investigated or confirmed can change one's game. I think most people tend to keep their reads closer to their chest because there is less responsibility to look town and show everyone that you are town if you are confirmed. That lets them evaluate the game state while keeping their own thoughts secret and you certainly strike me as that type of player.

Knowing the priority of my death should probably increase, I like all my cards on the table before a game day ends.

Speaking of which, I'm liking SAD better based on recent posts.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So am I. It just makes me want to lynch Titus more.

Although I have a theory that they could both be scum. Neither votes the other. The people on the wagon are flexible and don't mind voting either. While others like zMuffin try to pull away from both and vote Proph instead while both Titus and Arthur are suspicious of Proph. It could be tinfoil hat but Titus/Arthur/Muffin actually make sense. Thoughts?

[geists]

I dunno. I always feel a little cautious about ascribing scum strategy to what could very well be town brownian movement.

[Ms Marangal]

Nacho is helluva bored or indifferent with the gamestate right now.

yeah, I can't imagine why

If you've read the thread, you would see that my lynch on Titus is a mix between a scum-read and a policy lynch

[Ms Marangal]

These didn't just come out of nowhere

and, along with these cases (which I never, ever do) I've been pretty clearly been defending them even when Cabd and GM had both disagreed. How did you miss these, muffin?

i am aware you've been defending them, i just don't recall ever reading a case outlining why they're town. the first and third quote walls you just posted, for example, are

not

reasons to think they're town. the second quote wall is about as close to a town case on them as i've seen (i don't even remember you writing it, and it was apparently written 160+ pages ago so that could have something to do with it). i'm looking at it now and wondering how you came to the conclusions you seem to have come to based on the stuff you were actually quoting. it's probably a huge waste of time, but if you want me to break it down and explain exactly why i disagree with your assessment there i can

I'll give you the first, but the third is more a case to get everyone else thinking

and yeah, it's probably a waste of time and better used if/when nacho/thor ever gets on the chopping block, I'm still alive for whatever reason, and stuff of the like

[pieguyn]

Knowing the priority of my death should probably increase, I like all my cards on the table before a game day ends.

Speaking of which, I'm liking SAD better based on recent posts.

which posts? also, his push on me sucks and is intended to throw dirt as opposed to actually scumhunting

Well it's always to be expected that when people calm down their read will generally get weaker as they begin to question if they truly thought you were scum or just raging. In fact if anything I would expect scum's reads to be more static

just because it would be much easier to keep going "SAD is scum" because you've already had a large argument that half the people didn't bother reading and assumed that your argument lead you to believe that way, rather than having to change reads and begin pushing elsewhere.

Pedit: @F-16

this is so fucking sketchy I want to cry like can someone give me a dayvig shot or smth like that to shoot this fucker already?

he's indirectly opposing a behavior I'm doing to paint me as scummy. this shows the true motivation of his push on me. after i ignored him, he saw addressing me directly wouldn't work so now he's using indirect methods like this to subtly throw dirt at me and reinforce the idea I'm scum. it also includes a dichotomy he set up that is intended to be town behavior (rather than having to change reads and begin pushing elsewhere) vs. scum behavior (keep going "SAD is scum" because you've already had a large argument that half the people didn't bother reading and assumed that your argument lead you to believe that way) when this is first of all a completely false dichotomy and second, the "scum behavior" half misrep'd the fuck out of what I was doing. again he's being subtle and indirectly reinforcing the idea that I'm scum instead of doing it directly. this is a manipulative tactic as opposed to being direct about it and is scum behavior

So am I. It just makes me want to lynch Titus more.

Although I have a theory that they could both be scum. Neither votes the other. The people on the wagon are flexible and don't mind voting either. While others like zMuffin try to pull away from both and vote Proph instead while both Titus and Arthur are suspicious of Proph. It could be tinfoil hat but Titus/Arthur/Muffin actually make sense. Thoughts?

I saw smth supporting this but I didn't post it bc I wanted to see SAD flail more

And then there's me wondering why you have me as a scumread, yet you're not voting me.

Oh I'm sorry, does it make a huge difference to you?

See this is the thing I mean. You keep spewing things right and left that literally serve no purpose other than to look like you're trying.

Name one scum motivation for me "thinking you're scum" but not voting you. Go ahead. Enlighten me.

Titus (2) - Prophylaxis, Norlkaz
Ser Arthur Dayne (2) - Sakura Hana, pieguyn
Prophylaxis (2) - zMuffinMan, Titus

Not Voting (7) - geists, Casso the King of Seals, Ms Marangal, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, KoreanBBQ, goodmorning, Ser Arthur Dayne

afaik not wanting to jump on a wagon right at the same time as both of your scumbuddies is a p good scum motivation

[geists]

Knowing the priority of my death should probably increase, I like all my cards on the table before a game day ends.

Speaking of which, I'm liking SAD better based on recent posts.

which posts? also, his push on me sucks and is intended to throw dirt as opposed to actually scumhunting

Well it's always to be expected that when people calm down their read will generally get weaker as they begin to question if they truly thought you were scum or just raging. In fact if anything I would expect scum's reads to be more static

just because it would be much easier to keep going "SAD is scum" because you've already had a large argument that half the people didn't bother reading and assumed that your argument lead you to believe that way, rather than having to change reads and begin pushing elsewhere.

Pedit: @F-16

this is so fucking sketchy I want to cry like can someone give me a dayvig shot or smth like that to shoot this fucker already?

he's indirectly opposing a behavior I'm doing to paint me as scummy. this shows the true motivation of his push on me. after i ignored him, he saw addressing me directly wouldn't work so now he's using indirect methods like this to subtly throw dirt at me and reinforce the idea I'm scum. it also includes a dichotomy he set up that is intended to be town behavior (rather than having to change reads and begin pushing elsewhere) vs. scum behavior (keep going "SAD is scum" because you've already had a large argument that half the people didn't bother reading and assumed that your argument lead you to believe that way) when this is first of all a completely false dichotomy and second, the "scum behavior" half misrep'd the fuck out of what I was doing. again he's being subtle and indirectly reinforcing the idea that I'm scum instead of doing it directly. this is a manipulative tactic as opposed to being direct about it and is scum behavior

So am I. It just makes me want to lynch Titus more.

Although I have a theory that they could both be scum. Neither votes the other. The people on the wagon are flexible and don't mind voting either. While others like zMuffin try to pull away from both and vote Proph instead while both Titus and Arthur are suspicious of Proph. It could be tinfoil hat but Titus/Arthur/Muffin actually make sense. Thoughts?

I saw smth supporting this but I didn't post it bc I wanted to see SAD flail more

And then there's me wondering why you have me as a scumread, yet you're not voting me.

Oh I'm sorry, does it make a huge difference to you?

See this is the thing I mean. You keep spewing things right and left that literally serve no purpose other than to look like you're trying.

Name one scum motivation for me "thinking you're scum" but not voting you. Go ahead. Enlighten me.

Titus (2) - Prophylaxis, Norlkaz
Ser Arthur Dayne (2) - Sakura Hana, pieguyn
Prophylaxis (2) - zMuffinMan, Titus

Not Voting (7) - geists, Casso the King of Seals, Ms Marangal, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, KoreanBBQ, goodmorning, Ser Arthur Dayne

afaik not wanting to jump on a wagon right at the same time as both of your scumbuddies is a p good scum motivation

If you're town take a deep breath and stop assuming that any suspicion of you has to come from scum.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

he's indirectly opposing a behavior I'm doing to paint me as scummy.

I'm gonna stop you right there and tell you (if you actually decide to read the WHOLE game) me and F-16 were talking about Cephrir.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Pie how stupid do you feel right now.