Mini 520 - Triumvirate Mafia - ABANDONED

[Phate]

For what, exactly?

Actually, after having done a quick re-read, I find most of the posts you've made since way back to when the FL wagon was ending have been empty...what little there is in them feels scummy but there's so damned little that I don't want to vote just yet.

Most notably, I find these scummy:

Unfortunately, I don't think the FL lynch is going to happen today. So in light of that, and in light of reanalysing that post, and in light of not caring enough to do a decent reread, I officially

Unvote
Vote: Miztef

Hanging onto what I consider a BS wagon and finally letting go begrudgingly.

I was hanging onto a wagon that I considered to be viable. It's a Day 1 lynch, we don't have much to go on, and I was sick of Day 1 even then.

Vote: MoS because after a reread, I think I was correct in my initial suspicion of him, and if he turns out to be a townie after all, he will be decreasingly active in his games. I don't really want to be part of an endgame with a lurker.

Scum love lynching lurkers, yes they do! Easy kills.

Yeah, they do like lynching lurkers. That's not actually what I was proposing, though. Read what you're quoting and see what I wrote: 1) I think he's scum and my initial suspicions were correct, and 2) as an afterthought, his potential for being an endgame lurker is icing on his lynch's cake.

My vote stands on Miztef. I'm getting a very strong town read from TrustGossip.

You never actually voted Miztef. Your vote was on MoS.

Fixed that.

Asking someone what's up with someone else's post is at least as good as pointing it out yourself. If there's nothing to be found in a post, they'll tell you so - it won't send them on a "wild goose chase".

No, having someone else do your scumhunting for you is not really part of the game. It is a good way, as it was already said, of getting the info out there without catching blame yourself.

Pointing out someone's post and asking someone else what's up with it != having someone else do your scumhunting for you. I honestly can't see that as a viable scumtactic

at all

.

Incidently, that one one of the meatiest posts you've written in ages. You have "I'm active-lurking!" written all kindsa over you.

Do a recent meta of me. Watch my post count drop sharply in the last few months, then gradually begin to recuperate, with my 'meaty' post located almost exclusively on or near weekends. Things are going on in my life that takes precedence over mafia, but they're coming to an end, and I will have more time soon.

[Rishi]

No one is putting their money with their mouth is though, which is indicative of the general wave of wishy-washiness that is in this thread. That's why you can't lynch anyone.

I am waiting for him to respond (or not) with something...

anything

other than a vote fix. Ugh. If he doesn't respond by tomorrow, he gets my vote right between the eyes.

Here's what I don't like about this post. YOUR VOTE IS NOT A BULLET. This is why you can't lynch anyone in this thread.

Phate has two measly votes on him. Your third vote isn't going to make any difference for now. In fact, with only two little votes on Phate, you could argue that any pressure on him is meaningless. He can sit there thinking, "What do I care if I get a third vote? This group is too wishy-washy to lynch anyone."

Which is true. Everyone stop dilly-dallying and lynch someone. I have volunteered on several occasions if you want a safe lynch.

You all had 28 pages already. What information do you hope to uncover in the next week that'll suddenly make you see the light?

[Mizzy]

@Phate:

Thanks for replying, I was really worried you wouldn't.

I was hanging onto a wagon that I considered to be viable. It's a Day 1 lynch, we don't have much to go on, and I was sick of Day 1 even then.

Yes, but it's important to let go of things when they don't seem like they will work...dragging your feet works against you if you want the day to end.

Yeah, they do like lynching lurkers. That's not actually what I was proposing, though. Read what you're quoting and see what I wrote: 1) I think he's scum and my initial suspicions were correct, and 2) as an afterthought, his potential for being an endgame lurker is icing on his lynch's cake.

Right, but it felt to me like you were wanting to vote MoS for being a lurker but knew that wouldn't fly so kind of tossed in some suspicion. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it came off.

Pointing out someone's post and asking someone else what's up with it != having someone else do your scumhunting for you. I honestly can't see that as a viable scumtactic at all.

I'm not saying it's a scumtell persay (I actually believe very, very little in scumtells) but it did stick out in my mind that you seem more than okay with the idea.

It's also interesting that no one else has gone back and analyzed those posts that I wouldn't...not even Elmo. (That's just a thought there. Not towards anyone particular.)

Do a recent meta of me. Watch my post count drop sharply in the last few months, then gradually begin to recuperate, with my 'meaty' post located almost exclusively on or near weekends. Things are going on in my life that takes precedence over mafia, but they're coming to an end, and I will have more time soon.

Already did, and what I dislike is that you were busy and yet stayed in the game when you could have been replaced with an active player. You posted just enough to get by, no more, and no less. Real life does come first, but it's not good or okay for busy players to active-lurk and bitch about the length of the game at the same time.

[Mizzy]

Here's what I don't like about this post. YOUR VOTE IS NOT A BULLET. This is why you can't lynch anyone in this thread.

Phate has two measly votes on him. Your third vote isn't going to make any difference for now. In fact, with only two little votes on Phate, you could argue that any pressure on him is meaningless. He can sit there thinking, "What do I care if I get a third vote? This group is too wishy-washy to lynch anyone."

Which is true. Everyone stop dilly-dallying and lynch someone. I have volunteered on several occasions if you want a safe lynch.

You all had 28 pages already. What information do you hope to uncover in the next week that'll suddenly make you see the light?

I don't think my vote IS a bullet, but I am not going to toss votes around just because you have a cute avatar and want me to. I will vote when I am damned good and ready...try bitching at some of the inactive players instead of one who is trying to be active and scumhunt.

[Phate]

Mizzy, I would not inflict this game on either the mod or the replacement unless I really, really hated them. In fact, the only players I hate so much that I'd inflict this game on them wouldn't be valid choices anyway because I wouldn't inflict them on you guys.

I am okay with Elmo's method. I can't fathom what you mean by "more than okay".

[Mizzy]

I am okay with Elmo's method. I can't fathom what you mean by "more than okay".

It felt, and this is probably just me being hormonal, like I was getting flack for not doing it, when I know I'd have gotten flack for doing it. Rock + hard place.

[TrustGossip]

Even though I am a replacement, I too am getting weary.

Unfortunately, my conscience is too annoying.

Unvote: Miztef

I have to do a full re-re-read before I decide if I believe a lurker lynch is viable or if the scum is clearly visible on the surface.

I am sorry, but I would rather be agonizing than wrong.

[Phate]

@mizzy: flak from me? Where?

[Mizzy]

@mizzy: flak from me? Where?

Just in general...I felt like I had been asked to stick myself in the rabbit hole again by Elmo and when I wouldn't, I dunno. Hormones.

[Rishi]

Here's what I don't like about this post. YOUR VOTE IS NOT A BULLET. This is why you can't lynch anyone in this thread.

Phate has two measly votes on him. Your third vote isn't going to make any difference for now. In fact, with only two little votes on Phate, you could argue that any pressure on him is meaningless. He can sit there thinking, "What do I care if I get a third vote? This group is too wishy-washy to lynch anyone."

Which is true. Everyone stop dilly-dallying and lynch someone. I have volunteered on several occasions if you want a safe lynch.

You all had 28 pages already. What information do you hope to uncover in the next week that'll suddenly make you see the light?

I don't think my vote IS a bullet, but I am not going to toss votes around just because you have a cute avatar and want me to. I will vote when I am damned good and ready...try bitching at some of the inactive players instead of one who is trying to be active and scumhunt.

I do have a cute avatar. Thank you.

My point is, and I should have said it in a calmer manner, is that you shouldn't be afraid to vote. Voting is one of the only weapons that we have against players - and it's a good way to probe for information. If you want players to actually feel pressured, then an actual vote is more threatening than the threat to vote.

[somestrangeflea]

I spend two or three hours reading this thread, trying to get some sort of case on someone, and, AFAICT, only

TWO PEOPLE READ THE DAMN THING

.

I'd like to thank MoS and TG for trying.

Unvote, Vote: Miztef

[Mizzy]

I do have a cute avatar. Thank you.

My point is, and I should have said it in a calmer manner, is that you shouldn't be afraid to vote. Voting is one of the only weapons that we have against players - and it's a good way to probe for information. If you want players to actually feel pressured, then an actual vote is more threatening than the threat to vote.

Welcome!

Anyway, yes, I do feel a bit afraid to vote and I can't put my finger on why. In an attempt to help that out, I've narrowed the ones I would vote for right now to Miztef and Phate for actual lynches (preferred) and Thin_Man for a lurker lynch (not preferred.)

I'm going to

Unvote. Vote: Miztef

.

These are the two posts that pushed me over the edge:

I'll be honest about mine MoS, I only voted you first because I'm close to being picked and your also close, so even though I'm fairly neutral about you, I decided that it would be better you then me.

If people were really adamant about going after phate or some others, I would have voted that candidate first in an instant.

The above post I didn't like then and I really don't like it now. I also wasn't satisfied with his response when Rishi poked him about it.

not against the rules, I just think your being a little overdramatic. I'm not implying you are scum because of it, just think your being a bit hypocritical of the fact you voted me for being melodramatic.

Why does it matter if you mentioned phate or not. I think thin_man is the worst of the actual horrible lurkers, where as phate does post, but he is more guilty to me nevertheless, so I voted him.

The more I read on Miztef, the more he comes off as being someone who yes-mans and someone who posts little content but tries to pass it off as more than that. He seems to do very little actual scumhunting and just floats by. Phate's done a good job of answering me, so I will go with Miztef.

[Miztef]

you know, you guys make me want to pull my hair out.

so, I got voted by ssf... great.

Chapter 3 - Vote: No Lynch

If Phate = mafia, then spur and/or SSF could be trying to get heat off of him, in a townie looking way.

So, Too Townie then?

For someone that just made a massive speech, that seems very odd. I will accept it for now and continue playing as normal though.

"I do not believe that Elmo's argument is a good one against me. Moving on..."

Spurgistan and Miztef stand out as potentially scummy, as does Phate to a lesser extent.

to my knowledge, this is the only stuff your using as evidence against me. Somehow, this makes me much worse then any other lynch out there. great.


Mizzy: I'm not sure how I just popped in your plans and got a vote in 1 post, but whatever the reason you didn't even mention me as a lynch candidate (lately) until that post, I don't like that post nevertheless.

The MoS "vote": As MoS stated, I got myself into a false dilemma. If we had definitely done that voting (the assumption I was going on), I would have died had I not voted MoS (most likely).

and how in the world is that last quote make me scummy? cause I reiterated some posts and clarified that I don't actually think he's scum. Ok then, do you want me to go through and name the last 20 of your posts that do the same thing? I'd probably only have to look about 50 posts back of yours to get 20. This is not even mentioning the fact that you accused phate of the same thing, yet he throws a measly explanation, and oh, now your on my bandwagon.

On top of this, you keep changing your position on lurkerlynching, at first you said it was the way to go, then you decided to pressure phate saying that scum like to lurkerlynch to get easy lynches. I don't understand what went through your mind here at all.

Anyway, since I'm near lynch, I'm gonna

claim triumvirate

. So, yeah, take it as you will. Also, I realize I said claims were irrelevant, but that only applied to my opinion, which is actually now changed a bit on that subject. I know others said they thought claims were valuable, so I decided it best to say mine.

[Phate]

I don't believe you.

[Elmo]

Mizzy: I wouldn't have given you flack for doing it or not doing it, and would probably have yelled at anyone who did. In fact, I much prefer people do whatever they feel is best; I'm far from always right, and it's always a good idea to question what other people are advocating.

Flea: I read it.

Rishi: Please marry me immediately for post 701.

Miztif: Oh, my.

Unvote

for now, at least.. Hmm.

[Elmo]

Hm.

Phate: Why do you not believe him? Do you think we should lynch Miztif today?

[Mizzy]

Mizzy: I'm not sure how I just popped in your plans and got a vote in 1 post, but whatever the reason you didn't even mention me as a lynch candidate (lately) until that post, I don't like that post nevertheless.

There were some posts of mine that looked at you with interest as a lynch candidate, and like I said, I re-read a lot of your posts and came to the conclusion.

Anyway, since I'm near lynch, I'm gonna claim triumvirate. So, yeah, take it as you will. Also, I realize I said claims were irrelevant, but that only applied to my opinion, which is actually now changed a bit on that subject. I know others said they thought claims were valuable, so I decided it best to say mine.

I

told

you guys...however, I don't believe him either because that was the most insincere claim I have ever seen.

"Anyway, since I'm near lynch, I'm gonna claim triumvirate."?

What the hell. My vote stays for the moment.

[Miztef]

well, I claimed like that cause I was again just upset by the end of the post.

Looking back, it does sound quite scummy, but yeah, I'm triumvirate. I think anyone could notice my wish for protection of triums in most of my previous plans.

The massclaim for example, was because I was quite fearful of being lynched early, and wanted to have the protection of saying my role.

what do you mean by "I told you guys"? I don't find it at all surprising that mizzy and phate are 2 that wish me lynched still.

Imo, Mizzy's latest jump from phate to me seems like a scum jumping from a bussing vote to an actual attack vote. As you should know, I've wanted phate lynched for a long time now, so it's not at all shocking that he wishes me lynched. Does anyone agree/disagree with this theory?

So, since I'm feeling talkative today, I'll bring up some other points as well:

Elmo has been looking pretty good throughout the game. so, yeah, don't lynch him.

Trustgossip, as much as he was opposing me, I see as fairly pro-town.

MoS, for the most part, is neutral for me. I understand he can't be online as often anymore, and I haven't seen much scum activity from him.

Thin_man and Sir Tornado are horribly lurking... I'm not sure why they haven't been replaced. before thin_man stopped posting, I was finding him somewhat scummy.

Cephrir is the next heaviest lurker, and I must say I think many of his posts lack explanation and usefulness. Overall, I just don't like the way he plays and wish for more activity.

Skitzer has been fairly off the radar, I see him as mostly neutral.

SSF has been all over the place, So even though at times I've found him scum, and other times town, it's really a toss-up at this time.

Rishi has been pretty good overall. He's the most "genuinely" townie player right now for me. Pushes hard, but not too much, and is sometimes emotional, understands the situation, and plays fairly. I would find it hard to believe if rishi is scum.

Phate and Mizzy have become my 2 top suspects. Both for their "active lurking" type play, phate much more so in that category. Mizzy I find guilty of bussing phate, flipflopping opinions, too agreeable at times, contradicting approaches to playing (let's lynch lurkers, oh wait, only scum lynch lurkers), and way too much fluff posting. Phate has a ridiculous amount of active lurking, does next to no scumhunting, and tends to join bandwagons with little input.

[Mizzy]

well, I claimed like that cause I was again just upset by the end of the post.

I'm starting to wonder if you panicked at a possible lynch...but you weren't a -1L, I checked before I voted. So why claim now?

Looking back, it does sound quite scummy, but yeah, I'm triumvirate. I think anyone could notice my wish for protection of triums in most of my previous plans.

Yes, it is extremely scummy, and if you are really a Trium, then you claimed in the worst possible way ever.

The massclaim for example, was because I was quite fearful of being lynched early, and wanted to have the protection of saying my role.

Or you wanted to know who the real Triums were/are. There's no way to prove it either way.

what do you mean by "I told you guys"? I don't find it at all surprising that mizzy and phate are 2 that wish me lynched still.

I mean that I was hesitant to vote/lynch because I knew whoever it was would claim to save their own asses. I said so many, many times.

Imo, Mizzy's latest jump from phate to me seems like a scum jumping from a bussing vote to an actual attack vote. As you should know, I've wanted phate lynched for a long time now, so it's not at all shocking that he wishes me lynched. Does anyone agree/disagree with this theory?

Phate's still #2 on my list for a lynch...the reason I voted you now instead of him was because of your posts, especially the two I quoted when I did vote. I went back and re-read, you see.

Not to mention that he answered my questions and allegations well enough for the moment.

So, since I'm feeling talkative today, I'll bring up some other points as well:

Phate and Mizzy have become my 2 top suspects. Both for their "active lurking" type play, phate much more so in that category. Mizzy I find guilty of bussing phate, flipflopping opinions, too agreeable at times, contradicting approaches to playing (let's lynch lurkers, oh wait, only scum lynch lurkers), and way too much fluff posting. Phate has a ridiculous amount of active lurking, does next to no scumhunting, and tends to join bandwagons with little input.

Firstly, up until now, I haven't flip-flopped...you all know how cautious a player I've been so I think that attack is an attempt to pull a defense straight out of your arse.

I'd also like to mention that my vote wasn't on Phate...remember I said I was waiting to see if he would answer? He did. His answers seemed good enough. I'm not going to vote someone who responds appropriately.

About lurkers, I have been quite adamant that a pure lurker lynch is NOT what I want, but I thought people should know who I'd choose for it, anyway. Information is important. My sentiments on the subject have not changed.

In fact, this whole post of yours doesn't one quote, post number, or any bit of concrete proof in it. Is it all from recollection? Did you BOTHER looking back at anything?

If you thought I'm scummy, you'd have put your finger where your mouth is and done SOMETHING. IGMEOY, FoS, vote, anything. But you didn't. That whole post was a load of hot air.

If you ARE a PR, then get off your ass and act like a townie.

[Phate]

I don't believe him because every single aspect of his play so far has been indicative of scum hunting the triums rather than triums trying to blend in with the townies.

Why the

HELL

would a Trium member advocate a massclaim? Come on, people. I would have believed a vanilla claim out of Miztef much faster than a trium claim. Not too long ago he was talking about how claims are irrelevant - that was because he found it more likely that he was going to get a trium lynched than to be close to lynch himself. Now, naturally, he's changed his mind.

Nothing in Miztef's prior play has suggested trium at all. No breadcrumbs, nothing.

Someone has already mentioned that we can't just go "oh, ok" and meekly unvote every time anyone claims triumvirate. Because, you know, scum lie sometimes.

[Elmo]

Hmm. Phate:

He didn't strongly advocate the mass claim, he just agreed with it when it was brought up; even at that point, everyone (including the triumvirates) thought it was a good idea, so I can't see how that's an indication of anything. Nothing in Miztif's play indicating triumvirate is at worst null; mafia are looking for them, yes? (I would like to reiterate that speculating over what triumvirates will do or how they will act seems unwise.)

How has "every single aspect of his play so far has been indicative of scum hunting the triums"?
How have you distinguished between triums trying to blend in with the townies and scum trying to blend in with the townies?
What makes you sure enough that Miztif is scum that you are willing to risk turning the game mountainous if you're wrong?

[Mizzy]

What makes you sure enough that Miztif is scum that you are willing to risk turning the game mountainous if you're wrong?

I know this isn't directed at me, but I wanted to say my piece anyway. His claim isn't heart-felt, sincere, or in any way, shape or form a claim that I feel a real trium would have made. He basically did it as a last ditch effort and basically admitted as much.

Give a quick re-read to his posts, both in and out of context. I can't imagine that his claim is legit.

[TrustGossip]

He didn't strongly advocate the mass claim, he just agreed with it when it was brought up

Are you absolutely sure of this? I seem to recall Miztef being the progenitor of the idea. I'm pretty wiped from Chinese New Years so I don't really have the energy to file through and find the exact post, but I seem to recall that he was the one who suggested it.

If I'm wrong smack me with a rolled up newspaper.

[somestrangeflea]

He didn't strongly advocate the mass claim, he just agreed with it when it was brought up

Are you absolutely sure of this? I seem to recall Miztef being the progenitor of the idea. I'm pretty wiped from Chinese New Years so I don't really have the energy to file through and find the exact post, but I seem to recall that he was the one who suggested it.

If I'm wrong smack me with a rolled up newspaper.

*smacks

Actually now that I'm looking at it, I support a mass claim.

Look at it this way, people that claim vanilla won't be scared of being lynched, which decreases the possibility that mafia claim vanilla. If during the night we see triumvates being killed, we'll find it easier to deduct. Mean while during the day we lynch those that claim vanilla. We will lose townies, but for the mafia its a lose / lose scenario.

The first post which related to massclaiming.

Intriguing that he said "I agree with..." when nobody had actually initially suggested it.

Miztef was the last person (other than FL) to be convinced that it was a

bad

idea, so maybe that's where your confusion is.

Also, I realize I said claims were irrelevant, but that only applied to my opinion, which is actually now

changed a bit

on that subject.

Explain why this change happened.

I told you guys...however, I don't believe him either because that was the most insincere claim I have ever seen. "Anyway, since I'm near lynch, I'm gonna claim triumvirate."? What the hell.

Keffed.

[Miztef]

So yeah, fun mess I've started up here.

Mizzy said I didn't place any real evidence in my posts... that's true, I was kind of in a rush and was rambling for the most part. I wasn't trying to be too serious, just thought I'd bring up my views on a few things in case I was lynched quickly. There was also an accusation that my post "did nothing" which is true, but as I said, it's just an opinion piece in case I'm lynched quickly, with my latest views. I didn't FoS or anything mostly because I wasn't really thinking about it. I already have my vote on phate, which is where I want it to be.

To be honest about the massclaim thing, I actually believed I had initiated it as well. Guess I was just thinking it in my head early on or something.

Phate's logic concerning how I handled claims seems fair, but here's what I was thinking: I said claims were irrelevant to me because I knew scum would try to claim trium, and I am definitely at a point where I am sick of the day, so listening to this claim would only extend our day, which I didn't prefer. On top of that, since I am Trium, I decided that it was more likely a person claiming trium was trium, and more likely that they are scum (2 triums / 3 scum for me in the game). Of course, this sounds like an awful defense, but I think everyone can at least admit I have been antsy to end the day, and my actions may reflect that.

My mind changed on the subject after replies came to my post, which touched on the importance of information from a claim. At least I'm spurring powerful conversation by claiming, even if it ends in my lynching. My position on claims now is that they shouldn't radically change your mind as to lynching the person or not, but are useful for discussion building and risk assessment. Especially if we get 2 or more claims in the same day, then it becomes quite relevant as calculating what is more likely true and helps root out scum (when they are forced to claim that is).