Final Fantasy 6 Mafia - Game Over

[WrathChild]

"SomeRandomGuy

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Joined: October 14, 2010
Location: England
Gender: Male

Post #???? » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:50 pm

In my opinion nothing has changed regarding Zeek - at least not until we know that Diddins power does not pick up on fake claim names.

Part of Zeeks whole case against him is the speculation on character names, some being obvi town just because of flavour, others being less so etc - with a name like Sabin you could understand why he might push that idea, it's ground work for his fake claim to seem trustable.

I don't like that Diddin presented this as having an Inno on Zeek.

"

Here SRG (SCUM) continues to try to push the Zeek (TOWN DOC) case calling Diddin's claim into doubt. Diddin is town deal with it.

[sword_of_omens]

ok, do we agree that scum boils down to either MB/Kunk and/or MacD?

i am still under the impression that there is only 1 scum left...
if they knew the lynch mechanics at the start of the game, then i don't think having only 4 scum members would be underpowered. If there is a 2 man team then MacD be part of it, but i still think it has to be solo MB/Kunk... i'll post my case again below, along with something else i thought was interesting that Fool caught...

damn, my head is killing me on this shit...
I reread everything…and the NO-kills just to assume town cred does not make sense for The Fool. If that were the case, he would have at least R/B'd Diddin to keep from being discovered. Not just sat back and hoped..
it does however make a little more sense in this scenario:
I have a real bad feeling that MB is last remaining scum and is Godfather...
She originally claims VT, which makes sense if she is GF as she would have passive investigative/namecop immunity.
N7 fiasco- We popcorned MB and she stated that she had rec'd the JK. When asked to relay her targets, she originally did not want to (maybe to stall?) and then gave in and said she could not use it on her first night of receipt and then sent it in too late on the next night. So She did not use it at all both nights. I'm betting she sent in kills those nights instead. Fool ruined her plan on N7 by doc'ing Diddin.
N8- she has to prove she has the JK ability so JK's Diddin. Hence the no-kill. The plus side to this on her end is that she keeps Diddin from confirming another townie.
Curious behavior from Mist Beauty:
Day 2 she had multiple unvote/votes near the end of lynch as if she was trying to hammer on a "hammer day"
On the TS lynch day, MB seemed

overly eager

to prove herself town by distancing herself from TS
she did not vote on TS and did not post until near the end with:

I'm here and not hammering. My vote would be on TS if she weren't at L-1

diddin better get in here before they self hammer...

actually, can someone unvote so that they don't self hammer? when diddin gets on we can vote again then hammer. this could go both ways, but we're lynching scum, right?

honestly, with so many eyes on who would hammer, it would not make any sense for scum to jump in and hammer. This reads as a needles attempt to appear town.
Other times when she seems to try too hard to look town:
Mist Beauty tries to act as frustrated town when she fake replaced out
Mist Beauty fake, fake hammers

Mist thinking Pidgey 'knows' that her role is a fakeclaim for Kefka is still seriously weird.
...her reaction to the nameclaim starts out town-soundy, but becomes both waffley ("nameclaim might be bad, but it's okay if people agree") and a bit fearmongery ("there may be crazy recruitment roles waiting in the wings")
...and then she claims scum again a page later.
...and the disconnect between being Strago and thinking Pidgey knew Strago was a fakeclaim is seriously understated at the time.

i would laugh hard if Pidgey called this before the massclaim..

[WrathChild]

"

ZeekLTK

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Joined: June 14, 2007
Gender: Male

Post #???? » Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:02 am

In post 1630, Mist Beauty wrote:I'm okay with claiming, honestly. Just making sure we have a majority. Right now it's about 40%



8/15 living players have claimed already, so we're already over 50% as far as that's concerned...

3. theamatuer - Terra
5. WrathChild - Wedge
10. MacDougall - Cid
13. pidgey - Cyan
14. Timeater - Gogo
16. ZeekLTK - Sabin
17. diddin - Gau
18. Iecerint - Celes

1. Feysal
4. Twilight Sparkle
9. Mist Beauty
11. SomeRandomGuy
15. TheFool
19. Katsuki
20. sword_of_omens


Plus I have avatars turned off so did someone else just claim something (Mog?) by changing their avatars? Please type it in the thread so I can "see" it too..

."

Now look at this list carefully:

3. theamatuer - Terra (TOWN)
5. WrathChild - Wedge (TOWN)
10. MacDougall - Cid (UNKNOWN)
13. pidgey - Cyan (TOWN)
14. Timeater - Gogo (TOWN)
16. ZeekLTK - Sabin (TOWN)
17. diddin - Gau (TOWN)
18. Iecerint - Celes (TOWN)

1. Feysal-(INACTIVE)
4. Twilight Sparkle-(SCUM)
9. Mist Beauty-(UNKNOWN)
11. SomeRandomGuy -(SCUM)
15. TheFool - (UNKNOWN)
19. Katsuki - (INACTIVE)
20. sword_of_omens - (UNKNOWN)

See any patterns?

Our remaining unconfirmed town, who were active at the time (with the exception of MD, who had claimed earlier), all avoided the initial name claim. They have confirmed scum company.

This confirms that our scum are in the following pool: SoO, TheFool, MB. I stand by the statement that MD is terrible at this game but not scum.

[sword_of_omens]

WC, i had already softclaimed...

[sword_of_omens]

in fact if you read TE's post directly after the Zeek post you put just posted:

swords flail claimed mog via this:

I'm town...i'm a dancer...possibly the best dancer around...but that's cool...waste a lynch on me and get nothing out of it....

Mog's special ability is a bunch of "dances". Really, he's the only major character in the game with a relationship with dancing.

[WrathChild]

I keep going over and over it and if I truly believe Diddin is town, then scum has to be SoO, theFool, or MD. Even playing the worst case scenario, at least one of them is scum. The worst case scenario being two scum, one of which is babyface or the equivalent.

I need to retract my statement above. I think it is still possible for MD to be scum
SoO has his scum-slip point for him in Spyrex-TS-gate.
TheFool has the doc protect going for him.

Arrggh. I know the answer is somewhere in the archives and it's a nightmare trying to find anything there.

[WrathChild]

in fact if you read TE's post directly after the Zeek post you put just posted:

swords flail claimed mog via this:

I'm town...i'm a dancer...possibly the best dancer around...but that's cool...waste a lynch on me and get nothing out of it....

Mog's special ability is a bunch of "dances". Really, he's the only major character in the game with a relationship with dancing.

Ok going with this, you are still in the same boat as MD, who may have been going strong off a fake claim, but I do take your point.

[WrathChild]

SoO, what do you think of lynching theFool?

[sword_of_omens]

honestly, i wouldn't support a Fool lynch..
he could have easily lied about me having items/mag if he was teamed with anyone for an easy win...
and although his claim about his item went from BP to steal (which was abig part of my case on him), he brought up a good point saying that Spy said it had an "active" side to it as well...it's plausible...also, his no kill for town cred doesn't make sense either (as i've explained a page or two ago)...His play has been pretty solid town...
i really do think MB is the way to go here...

[WrathChild]

PS, each scum member so far begun the game with Magicite, MB was confirmed to have no items Day 4 by confirmed town. We should not be discussing MB's lynch. Night 5 theFool was revealed to have AT LEAST 1 Item, but not necessarily ONLY 1 item.

[sword_of_omens]

so then why would The Fool no kill?
especially when Diddin has a chance to hit him with a namecop?
let me re-read the last few nights and see what the correalation is with the JK's, doc's, and namecops again...

this freakin' sucks...

[sword_of_omens]

and WC, you seriously don't find it wierd that MB alluded to passive abilities very early on?
also had the wierd freak-out posts when Pidgey called Strago a fakeclaim for Kefka?
just cause she didn't start with an item doesn't mean she doesn't have an ability...

[WrathChild]

Kunkstar:
What did you say Carbuncle does again?

[WrathChild]

so then why would The Fool no kill?
especially when Diddin has a chance to hit him with a namecop?
let me re-read the last few nights and see what the correalation is with the JK's, doc's, and namecops again...

this freakin' sucks...

All answer this after Kunk answers my question.

[kunkstar7]

Kunkstar:
What did you say Carbuncle does again?

I don't know what Carbuncle does, I don't think I even mentioned Carbuncle...

So you don't think it'd be beneficial for a scum player to go through the archive and post the claims and actions? Especially considering all the night actions of any relevance should be memorized by us by now anyway, I think that is wifom.

Its beneficial for a scumplayer to know all the actions and claims, but not beneficial for scum player to post all these actions in any easy format where it hurts their chances of passing through a fakeclaim. So if they can get away with not doing it, it's a twofold benefit to the scum. Hence why doing so shows town motivation.

[sword_of_omens]

@Kunk
what do you show as MB's N7 action?

[kunkstar7]

My slot didn't perform a N7 action.

[sword_of_omens]

at all right?

[sword_of_omens]

and did MOI forward you the PM's?

[MacDougall]

PS I'm 100% certain Diddin is town. He claimed an investigative role Day 2 and as scum that would be an enormous risk especially after they bussed Funky.

Scum namecop claims to be a town namecop... How is that an enormous risk? The fact that you find this reason to consider him 100% confirmed town is bizarre in the extreme.

How do explain the fact that a fake guilty would have already won the game for Diddin?

You yourself are strongly entertaining the idea that there is a solo scum left, so how can you say that? At this stage of the game (for a solo scum) a fake guilty would get him one lynch and then at night he MAY get a kill (going on recent nights that might not be as simple as it appears) and then he'd be lynched for lying. Though we can deduce that diddin can't be solo scum because one of Mist and TheFool would be privy to it, and scum too in which case your argument then has merit. Despite that, I wasn't calling into question diddin's towniness, I was calling into questioning your reasoning for saying he was 100% confirmed. The reasoning that you seem to have very quickly replaced with something else. Why is it that you only mentioned this easily explained "enormous risk" as your defining statement on his towniness and not the subsequent reason?

I will admit he is the most likely to be town bordering on confirmed, I just don't like the way you are seemingly lying, or at the very least trying to exaggerate the significance of what you are saying. Townies don't play like this WC... You should know, seeing as you are so fantastic at this game compared to me.

"SomeRandomGuy

User avatar
Joined: October 14, 2010
Location: England
Gender: Male

Post #???? » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:50 pm

In my opinion nothing has changed regarding Zeek - at least not until we know that Diddins power does not pick up on fake claim names.

Part of Zeeks whole case against him is the speculation on character names, some being obvi town just because of flavour, others being less so etc - with a name like Sabin you could understand why he might push that idea, it's ground work for his fake claim to seem trustable.

I don't like that Diddin presented this as having an Inno on Zeek.

"

Here SRG (SCUM) continues to try to push the Zeek (TOWN DOC) case calling Diddin's claim into doubt. Diddin is town deal with it.

Meh, means nothing. Diddin could easily have just revealed his real result on Zeek and employed SRG to try to get Zeek lynched for it regardless. And it worked. As unlikely as that may be. The best case for diddin town lies in the fact that he hasn't employed a fake guilty. But even that has holes because even if he is part of a two person scum team that's still active, there is obviously a player out there blocking scum night kills (or the scum have limited kills, something is preventing them) so blatantly faking a guilty and then failing to produce a night kill would not get him a win, it'd get him lynched for lying. So he just votes for me and produces no result... and begs my lynch. All unlikely I admit but your hastiness in overlooking the possibilities plus your manipulative desire to put him out of our minds is certainly cause for concern. Put yourself in my position. Considering my lynch is most likely at the moment and admittedly probably has the best case for it I have to entertain some unlikely scenarios to find the real scum.

unvote
vote Kunk

Simply the most likely.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 9.6 - As of post 720

kunkstar7 (1) - MacDougall
MacDougall (2) - diddin, kunkstar7

Not Voting (3) - WrathChild, TheFool, sword_of_omens

The Current deadline is April 3rd, 2012 at 10:00 am EDT. Countdown is (expired on 2012-04-03 10:00:00).

With 6 active votes - 4 are required to lynch.

Activity Check - TheFool will be prodded if he has not posted by this time tomorrow.

diddn is V/LA until March 31st.

[WrathChild]

@MD: So while you believe Diddin is most likely town, you spend most of that entire post explaining how he could be scum and then vote a player he has an innocent on?

This is making my bowels loose. I can't tell if MD is very bad at this game or scum.

Please quote me where I say "I'm strongly considering there only being one scum left" because I'm pretty sure I've been the one going on and on about how we should play like there are two scum left.

[WrathChild]

I started out without items, TE confirmed that Mist did as well, my steal confirms SoO is currently itemless, and he also claimed VT.

TS had Kise's Magitek And Iec's Queen's Guard. If we assume he did all the killings up to his death, Parama was probably VT. Pidgey didn't claim getting anything from Nexus (I forget if he explicitly claimed getting nothing), so probably VT there as well.

So for the original setup, we've got:

Confirmed Town:
Item Cop
Voyeur
Doctor
Modified Jailkeeper
Vig
1 Neighbor
3 Vanillas
2 Probably Vanillas

Unconfirmed:
Name Cop
2 Neighbors
3 Vanillas

Confirmed Scum:
Item Thief/Bulletproof?
Strongman
"Carbunkle"

Can any one else compile the other night actions?

Doc Protects
Zeek:
N1 Pidgey
N2 Pidgey
Fool:
N3 Diddin
N4 ---
N5 Timeater
N6 ---
N7 Diddin
N8 ---

Did some digging, found Iec's claim.

Jailkeeper:
Iec:
N1 Timeater
N2 Katsuki
N3 Pidgey
N4 ???
TS:
N5 ???
Mist:
N6 couldn't use
N7 didn't use
N8 diddin

Voyeur:
Feysal/KK:
N1 Kise was mafia killed
N2 Iec was not targetted
N3 Mist was item copped
MacD:
N4 MacD was not targetted
(item dissapeared)

Name Cop
diddin:
N1- innocent on redFF
N2- innocent on Zeek
N3- Tried to investigate SoO, no result
N4- Tried to investigate amateur, no result
N5- guilty on TS
N6- innocent on Wrath
N7- innocent on Mist
N8- tried to investigate McD, no result

Don't have the time to brave going through every Timeater post for Item Cop results right now.

welcome Kunkstar!!

Also did the search for the item cop:
using TE's wording on his claims

Item Cop:

RedFF

N1. No Action

Timeater:

N2. Diddin (has at least 1 item/mag)
N3. Mist (No items/relics)
N4. Spyrex (has at least 1 mag/relic)
N5. The Fool (has at least 1 item/relic)
N6. ??? Timeater is NK'd

Consolidated for easy reference

[WrathChild]

Night 2 Actions:

Parama is NKed (Most likely by TS)
Iec was Voyeured by Feysal/KK (Was not targeted)
Pidgey was protected by Zeek
Katsuki was Jailkept by Iec
Zeek was claimed to have been name copped by Diddin (Though there was a bit of confusion between getting the name and an innocent)
Diddin was item copped by TE (Confirmed to have at least 1 item)

No reports of stolen items or roleblocks

Night 3 Actions:

No NK (Most likely NOT by TS)
Diddin is claimed to have been protected by theFool
Pidgey is Jailkept by Iec
Pidgey fails to Vig SoO (Jailkept by Iec)
Mist was Voyeured by Feysal/KK (Was targeted by Item Cop)
TE Item Copped Feysal/KK (Had No Items)
Diddin claimed to have name copped SoO but got no result (Potential Roleblock)

No evidence of item theft

Night 4 Actions:

Iec was NKed by ....

Revelation!!!!!

Caught Scum:

Spyrex (5) - Timeater, Twilight Sparkle, diddin, MacDougall, Mist Beauty

One of these people has carbuncle. We know it wasn't Timeater and TS. Then continuing to believe that Diddin is town, we clear MB and WALLA!

VOTE: MacD

[WrathChild]

UNVOTE

Hold on.