Tarot uPick II - GAME OVER

[zMuffinMan]

only the AJ and the Kuroko ones were at least half serious

yeah im just that much of a genius tbh

[fferyllt]

Dead Threads

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=63599 - spoilered
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=63401 - unspoilered (also pretty dead)

Design Notes

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=63262

Elemental Neighborhoods

Fire - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=63365
Air - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=63367
Water - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=63366
Earth - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=63368

Other Neighborhoods

Prohawk/Medea the Alien - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=63595
Medea the Alien/Wall of Fire - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=63594
Perpetual Nonsense/Klingoncelt - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=64024
Bacde/Perpetual Nonsense (Revenant Neighborhood) http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=63401

Mafia Thread

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=63349

Unsolved Mysteries

Tammy's Heirloom, the Fifth Element was given to Perpetual Nonsense. If they had been element-restricted (they weren't) the Fifth Element would have lifted the restrictions. Tammy didn't know what the Heirloom did, and neither did PN.

The Klingoncelt/Perpetual Nonsense neighborhood automatically activated once PN had activated all four elemental neighborhoods. Neither knew this would happen. Originally I had planned for PN to no longer be able to post in the game thread after the four neighborhoods had been activated, but ruled the idea out because it would be awkward and demotivating in a game with long game days.

The "Wagering" part of Aj's role was based on a role called the Fisherman that xReckonerx designed a few years ago. The abilities weren't supposed to be game-changing, and even if he'd been successful getting the Time Machine (commute for a day and a night) I think using the role would have been pretty incriminating. If I ever use a similar ability again (unlikely) I'd change how the gambling aspect works.

Regarding the Scum Miller, I've wanted to try this for a while, but was saving it for a large theme game. Scum Miller used to be a possibility in normal games. It was blacklisted for Normal purposes last summer. I'm not aware of any normal games that had scum millers at MS, but I saw it brought up in a uPick game a couple years ago.

At MS and on other sites where I've played, the way the Miller role is played by town has become very regularized, and it's essentially treated as a Named Townie unless someone is in the game who has been bitten by a scum player claiming miller right off the bat. I don't really expect this game to result in a lot of caution in the future, but I did (and do) want to see the realm of possibilities considered.

[Aj The Epic]

Well, I guess they'll get him if he straight up claims scum

Fuck. Me.

[Aj The Epic]

On the no-kill nights, I understand I was giving my team hell with it. However, I think my decision was correct (even though fucking vote counts... Btw: I read the vote count first before hammering, but read it backwards. Kami was voting for notscience, not the other way around... I also knew notty hadn't unvoted).

Kami was, even having me as scum, the most for-sure help I had. Notty was the one I had always planned on incriminating and PN... I gave up a long time ago actually trying to mislynch them because apathy and because there really wasn't anything for it. The advantage, as I spelled out, of a lylo situation is less voices. However, Nacho was in this game and I felt his read/grasp of the game was such that he wouldn't take Notty out in any situation and I couldn't afford to kill Notty. So with the town having three town voices in minimum, I felt I held no advantage in a lylo situation over a mylo one. Remember that in both situations for the correct lynch to be achieved, all town must be in consensus. And I banked so hard on Kami not wanting me lynched. However, you can't take Kami to lylo. Just stupid because then I have to kill PN? It didn't make sense. PN/Notty didn't

feel

like they could be baited into believing the miller claim, which I understood was my wincon in staying active.

Had Nacho not been alive, I would've probably taken PN and notty to lylo. In that hypothetical, Nacho no longer has the staunch voiced support for Notscience and maybe I can work with PN. But the other thing was, a town consensus seemed so unlikely (and probably was). Therefore, playing the odds on the larger consensus was my final decision. The innocent read was completely needed to assure it didn't go to night because I wasn't going to allow this game to go HEA in any situation (was the reason I was able to make a second NK knowing I had full control of that). And I didn't think I could justify ME staying alive over a third NK when I was 'rolling for cop'. Therefore, if we went to another Night, PN died and I had reason not to. Only later did I have any inkling that I could play for another night when Kami started talking about wanting a HEA scenario. I really decided though that kami was eventually going to wisen up and thought I had the hammer vote on them.

Only note is next time I hope we make a note a little less than a month in that one player isn't counted in voting unless they're on their original hydra. I figured NotScience was the account we were using.

[Plotinus]

You did the best you could with the resources you had available to you and you almost won. I am sorry for doubting you earlier in the dead thread.

[Kagami]

I'm hoping there's a rhetorical basis for this line of discussion and that you've not gone insane, nacho.

This was the post where I'm wondering if nacho is hounding AJ because he agrees with me that AJ is suspicious, or if he's trying to convince AJ to vote me. It turned out to be the latter.

As soon as this happened, there was exactly 0 chance I could lynch AJ.

[zMuffinMan]

um nacho was hounding you because you weren't considering aj so it's not his fault that you weren't considering aj

[Kagami]

Pretty sure that's not why I was being hounded.

[fferyllt]

What are you doing to your avatar?

[zMuffinMan]

Pretty sure that's not why I was being hounded.

pretty sure it was, actually

or rather the issue was that you were only considering noddy who he felt was pretty likely town, which he obviously thought felt fabricated, ergo the lines of questioning about why you can't even make a scum case on noddy and why your reasoning was shoddy

[Kagami]

That's not at all what happened.

The entire page prior to that quote is OT trying to convince AJ that I'm scum. I was hoping he was needling AJ because AJ's reasoning was weak, but he was just trying to undercut the townread on me.

I was still evaluating at this time. Only a few posts in my iso prior is 6633, in which I'm considering a fairly strong piece of evidence that NS is town. It's only when nacho decides that I'm scum and that he's going to push AJ into voting me that I have to commit to a tenuous NS position for survival.

Even then, I repeatedly say that AJ could be scum and even point out that there's a solid scumcase for AJ, so I'm not sure where you got that notion.

[zMuffinMan]

the entire page prior is him probing AJ about you, yes

i think in his mind the two of you should have been cross-voting because noddy wasn't scum

i don't think he ever had a full-blown scum read on you until after your whole "well noddy is scum for being incredibly protown up to a point"

[zMuffinMan]

and saying AJ could be scum means shit-all when you literally said that much of your reasoning for noddy being scum is that AJ is town

[Kagami]

I think that interpretation is incorrect. The response to 6957 is not consistent with an interest in probing AJ, nor is the manner of his questioning accusatory.

OT believed I was scum prior to any argumentation.

[Aj The Epic]

Also I didn't really want to make a case because that would've lead back to my shitty play in the early days. Kinda just had to accept the needling.

[Kagami]

Well, meh.

If you think I played poorly, muffin, then so be it. I think I played a substantial role in both the "victory" and more importantly, the early game leading up to it.

[zMuffinMan]

whether or not you played "poorly" isn't the issue

you're claiming that nacho shut down AJ as an option when that clearly isn't the case

[Kagami]

It felt like the case to me at the time. Perhaps I was mistaken.

I would have liked to have further investigated the AJ possibility, instead it seemed that I couldn't.

[zMuffinMan]

i don't really see how you thought that to be the case when nachos primary concern seemed to be that you weren't considering AJ and you didn't have good reasons to not consider AJ

*shrug*

even noddy himself was considering AJ before you basically made it a 1v1 between the two of you

[Kagami]

nachos primary concern seemed to be that you weren't considering AJ and you didn't have good reasons to not consider AJ

I must have completely missed this, because that never appeared to be the case to me, and I don't see how he would come up with that possibility at that stage o.o

[zMuffinMan]

um the way i

skimmed

read it is that he was probing anyone who was around about why they were thinking what they were thinking and then when you basically said "noddy is scum coz AJ is town" is when he changed his mind and went full-on kagami scum read

[zMuffinMan]

If you are indeed a scum miller and we lynched you, this would forever be the game that mods point to and say "Hey, scum miller with town rolecops are totally ok. Look how this town won despite triggering it!"

The most recent back and forth with Ceph was pretty much me telling him this, and him telling me not to worry about meta.

This is bad.
You saying "I don't know why Fluff is scum. He's just scum because AJ is town." is worse.

[Kagami]

We might need nacho to clarify here, but what I read was that nacho was spending a page questioning AJ about his kami read. The questioning was not of the investigatory type but rather the persuasive type. I asked for that to be clarified in 6691, and nacho immediately does so by implying strong suspicion on me.

At that stage, I had been openly considering both ns and AJ for scum. NS had been doing the same, but his most recent posts seemed to be positioning for a kagami vote. I was not sufficiently confident about either AJ or NS, but knew that kami wasn't the correct lynch and AJ was supporting me. Even and especially if AJ was scum, I would be hopelessly out of position if I threw away my only supporter given that the kami lynch was a real possibility.

p-edit: that's later. I think nacho was convinced I should be lynched before 6691.

[zMuffinMan]

I don't have a fixed belief that Fluff is town. I thought Fluff was scum coming into this day.
Your posting is making me rethink that read pretty strongly.

[Kagami]

I don't, and never did, believe that.