I don't like how quick Fenhl's wagon has taken off. It just goes completely against the way the last 3 days have went. Fenhl has acted scummily, especially yesterday, but so have the other people who had big wagons in the past few days (emp and corv and even nocmen). Now, fenhl's quick wagon here with people not voting for their earlier reads (emp was deadset on a corv lynch I seem to recall.... and neko seemed pretty set on my lynch or corv's). So a no-lynch and suddenly you want fenhl lynched rather than the person you were voting yesterday? That doesn't make sense.
I believe fenhl just made himself an easy target with his vote hopping (which was probably more attributed to lazy play), and we have scum (possibly 2) on his wagon at this point.
Or he is scum and just played really bad on day 3.
In terms of my reads/feelings on this game, I am strongly of the opinion that with 1 correct scum lynch, the rest of the scum will fall since there are different plays/interactions going on that could imply alignment.
---
The way things are going now, I'd say there are 3 scum (so I do believe it is Mylo) and that EMP and Neko are likely candidates.
vote EMPking
.
I'm also open to massclaim since I do believe it is potentially mylo and I suggest EMP/Fenhl go first. If you guys feel someone else should popcorn first, then go ahead. Will try to be around but most likely won't be able to check in/post until thursday.
DP- I was set on your lynch until you actually started participating. As for Corvuus, he was the best option at the end of the day yesterday. The quickwagon on emp was formed right before deadline, which is a terrible idea unless you know you have enough votes for a lynch (or if you want to deliberately cause a no-lynch). You of all people, if I'm to believe your explanation of your play this game, should understand the use of a quickwagon on fenhl.
Corv- I'm intrigued. Why me and emp? What about Noc? (am I on the right track?)
Are we surprised to see a quick wagon on Fenhl? If so, I think I know why. Can anyone tell me, without rereading, what they remember about Lordwhyt and Grump? No? Well then let's just keep pretending this is a 10-player game. Or 9-player game even -- I can think of another quickwagon that could form and be as useful, but it seems quite less pressing. This is the start of a new day, with 1 mislynch and 2 no-lynches (!!!!). Nobody should get a free pass at this point, and it's imperative that some people join the game.
DP, just seeing your recent post, I was confused at first but I see what you're saying now. Either Corv and Fenhl are scum together or Emp is scum with anyone that's not Corv/Fenhl. Since you're voting emp and you're grieving against the fenhl wagon, why is it you've managed to find a connection between Corv and Fenhl (and list it first) but find it less convincing than emp + ??? as a good vote?
computer crashed and other weird stuff but amusingly enough got a RL extension for a day.
Neko-
I'm intrigued as well. I can, without re-reading but using my notes, point out LordWhyt's iso post #20 where he comments on how (like I have been saying for most of the game) the first day's votes was initially a tie and that EMP and Incognito (neko predecessor) tipped the scale with Adnumber (Scott Brosius) following. I actually liked LordWhyt but don't remember liking anything about Grump.
I've generally given you a pass since there were others more pressingly scummy to me but, as you say, nobody should get a free pass at this point and while I liked some parts of your earlier play [actually, I liked it alot ], I'm less inclined to see you as most likely town right now especially since I'm getting a cognitive dissonance feeling. I'm not willing to lynch you before EMP's flip but I do think it is something worth mentioning depending on where things fall.
This might seem strange for me to say, but can you tell me what you think/remember about Lordwhyt and Grump and what you thought of them? If you do remember, why aren't you saying it, why are you saying that there is another quickwagon that could be formed and useful (without voting or saying anything) and where do you actually stand on things since yesterday, you were ready for a DP/Corv lynch but now you are choosing Fenhl. Do you believe a quick wagon on Corv/DP would be more beneficial or who else could you possibly suspect?
And while I like different parts, I can't help that you strike me as someone smart playing dumb. That, and at this point, I have a feeling it is going to come down to stubborness and 'bullying', especially with regards to forcing people to vote a certain way, especially in regards to connections, and especially since there is a possibility that this is mylo, and especially since you are flip-flopping between trying to say Corv/DP scum, yet trying to convince us on voting Fenhl.
Other than the most recent no lynch fiasco, provide a case on Fenhl/LordWhyt/Grump that isn't inherently trying to rely on town just quickvoting and lynching someone and convince me it is not a weak-scum quickwin attempt.
I'm also still in favor of massclaiming. I'm not 100% satisfied with Rhinox/Noc but I'm currently more favorable towards Rhinox than Noc. I'm reflecting on my reasoning for DP yesterday (which you misrepresented) but.... perhaps ironically, I'm willing to side with DP on this one.
------
Yes, the Corv/FA wagons fell apart (two mislynch attempts) but directly preceding each of those was a fairly realistic attempt on EMP. So yes, you could ask 'why is Corv still alive' or you could consider the whole scapegoat factor and ask why is EMP still alive? Why are the votes playing out this way? Rhinox, didn't you like doing graphical interfaces of voting patterns, etc.? Do you still think EMP is town?
I feel it is also worth mentioning that HF (who was the most adamant on EMP and moderately+ friendly towards me) is town and that, in terms of voting for day 1, etc. less arguable that FA survived because of a conspiracy.
I can remember very little about either of them. Lordwhyt was a lurker who contributed very little when he did post, and I honestly can't remember anything about Grump. They have been largely absent, and we've been happy to ignore them up to now, which we just can't do anymore. A quickwagon (NOT a quicklynch, mind you), I think is appropriate right now, and I don't believe I asked anybody else to join it. The very last thing I want right now is a quicklynch. If someone were to put Fenhl at L-1 right now, however, that would be rather alarming. I think the other potential quickwagon is fairly obvious, but Fenhl really needs to account for his actions asap so that we can keep this game moving with everyone participating. We've talked about you and DP and that's not over, but it's the start of a new day and I don't see the need to tunnel-vision on you two (it would be dangerous to do so).
Incidentally, I don't really think you're the best lynch at the moment. Between yourself and DP yesterday, your lynch would have yielded the most information. At this point, of course, we can't lynch just to get information (whether or not we're in mylo). I said I was intrigued because you're the first person to actually take a critical look at my play, which makes me more inclined to think you're town, even if you've completely misunderstood my intentions (which could be a misrepresentation, but I doubt it).
Corv: How exactly are you siding with DP? I see nothing referring to that that actually relates to DP's recent posts, except for the vote on Emp.
Also, I find it a bit too convenient that you're willing to trust Fenhl when he was the one that saved your ass yesterday.
DP: You say in 673 that Fenhl is scum, and yet you seem willing to write off his mistake and say its just a mistake in 676. I really don't like that.
I would still support a Corvuus lynch at this time, primarily for what I pointed out yesterday and what others have said since. Currently, I think DP is more likely to be town due to Corvuus' buddying of him but more information would be gained from either of their lynches.
I don't mind MCing by the way. Do we know if we're in lylo or mylo yet?
Seriously. Read your role PM before playing.
I am sorry if you have to prod me, I have absolutely no concept of time.
My prefered pronoun set is "cie/cir/cirs[elf]" but they is more than acceptable.
Recent posts include yesterday's posts by DP, not just the 2-3 he has today. Feel free to read them.
---
I feel it is a bit too convenient that a few players have mentioned how this could be mylo, consider massclaim, and if it is mylo, then a 'quickwagon' for information can quickly turn into a quicklynch and loss for town, and yet you are comfortable with keeping your vote on fenhl without anything else... and both you (noc) and Neko aren't trying to argue that I (or DP) are scum, but apparently both of you are trying to convince us to re-consider/vote fenhl....
which is huge amounts of fail since 1. you believed earlier that DP and/or Corv were scum and you presumably think fenhl is scum since you are voting/still voting at potential mylo then why are you trying to convince DP/Corv (who you have stated are scum) to reconsider/vote fenhl when the basis of your argument(s) doesn't make sense in consideration of the game overall. Heck, even DP pointed it out, so what exactly are you guys doing except playing as lazy scum in mylo?
I'm not fully convinced that all 3 of you voting are scum, but I feel EMP is scum and, if you (noc, neko) are town, then I suggest you re-consider YOUR positions (especially in regards to EMP and voting with EMP) instead of asking me to re-consider Fenhl since he may be scum but he isn't certain scum to me and isn't going to get my vote in potential mylo. Probability wise EMP is most likely scum and, as i stated before, 1 scum flip seems to be all we need to break the scum team.
-----
If it isn't obvious, I dislike both of your plays/actions since the day started and I will continue to comment/point it out since you are VOTING in potential mylo and claiming it is for info and not to necessarily lynch scum. There is NO reason for you to believe that you need to vote/wagon in order to get information and to do it now in mylo is just beyond careless/haphazard. Ignoring Fenhl's VLA for a moment, do you honestly believe that by voting him you would get more than just asking him with a FoS? Especially in mylo? You've simply succeeded in making me go "what the heck? voting in potential mylo" and you've done nothing to convince me that this isn't an incredibly lazy scum mylo play that you are hoping to sneak by. Yes, Fenhl has to comment (when he gets internet?), but you guys aren't helping town at all with what you are doing.
Corvuus
p.s. edit note for Haylen. You do realize that Neko/DP both said that they think i am likely town, so I don't know what you could possibly be referring to, especially since you ask whether it is mylo but you also apparently want to lynch for information and not necessarily to hit scum. Stop the lazy play.
Corv, it's like you've never heard of a pressure vote before. He was at L-2, and unless everyone is scum or really dumb, there is no way a quicklynch is happening (it's technically possible I suppose, but I just can't imagine coordinating a quicklynch at L-2 to be in any way feasible). But whatever, he's going to be replaced now, so we can just go back to pretending it's a 10-player game if you'd like. No matter how much you may be convinced Emp is scum, there is no reason to be ignoring another scummy player at the beginning of a new day. Have you considered the possibility that there may only be two scum, and that neither of them have been very present this game? Sure Emp might look scummy to you, but it's easy to look scummier than someone who hasn't been here most the entire game. I will certainly take a look at Emp, as I will everyone else because this game needs a major reanalysis, but it is imperative that everyone be participating from this point on. Can you see where I'm coming from? And I generally don't think FoSs are helpful unless I don't want to move a vote or voting would place someone at L-1/hammer too early
So at the very least, can we stop pretending this is a 9-player game?
vote: Haylen
Haylen wrote:I think DP is more likely to be town due to Corvuus' buddying of him but more information would be gained from either of their lynches.
Why exactly does this make DP more likely to be town, and why on earth do you then say that either of their lynches would yield more information when you're not even sure whether we're in mylo (if we are, we can't just lynch to get info (didn't I just say that?))? And, you say your case is based on what you said yesterday (which was your very first post, 5 pages ago) and what others have said since (over the past 5 pages). Could you be more specific?
I don't have time to look at emp or others now, but we need to hear something substantial from Haylen anyway.
corvuus wrote:Rhinox, didn't you like doing graphical interfaces of voting patterns, etc.? Do you still think EMP is town?
I don't know. I've grown frustrated an exhausted with this game and the town's inability to get anything done. I am to blame as well as others. I have no idea who scum are, but I don't think its you or neko atm. I think there are probably only 2 scum, and haylen + nocmen were my top 2 choices yesterday. So...
Haylen: It isn't hypocrisy for me to vote EMP in mylo since I think he is scum and I do want him lynched. I also, ironically, don't believe another no lynch would help us even in potential mylo so I won't be voting no lynch.
Haylen wrote:
Seriously, though, if I'm lynched. DON'T lynch Neko.
I find your statement strange in saying that if you are lynched, don't lynch neko. It makes zero sense unless you are trying to mindgame and, generally, it is scum who try to mindgame. Heck, Rhinox said something similar in that he wouldn't agree with a neko lynch but his phrasing/statement actually makes sense while yours reaks of scum trying to frame town since why would Haylen-town say that about Neko and in that way?
I'm up for a EMP + Haylen + 1 (noc?) team in that case but I'd still prefer an EMP lynch at the moment.
-----------
Corv: Obviously No Lynch is a horrible play. It's a horrible anti town play yesterday too and Fenhl's vote helped cause that.
I'm still in either way with Emp. I'm not sure whether the people that want to get rid of him are scum trying to get an opportune lynch on him, or bussing an easy partner. That uncertainty is why I've shyed away from voting him. I especially don't want to lynch him in Mylo, if we are there today.
My main suspects are Fenhl, Corv, and DP, in that order. However, going by priorities of who is most likely to be scum as well as produce the most assistance if this is not mylo,
Emp- Not sure yet. I feel pretty confident that at least one of Fenhl and Haylen is scum if not both, but Fenhl seems more likely. In the meantime, Haylen does seem to be posting just enough to get by. We got one very substantial read on two players, which appeared to be the first part of a series, but the rest of it never came. She even stated she would not be revealing the rest of her town reads. I have to wonder what she came across that made her stop her player summaries. If she was going in order of the original playerlist, you would have been next. I can't help but think that she doesn't want to commit to a thorough read on you. Why this should be, I'm not sure yet. It could very well be that you're scumbuddies and she doesn't want to have to say too much about her partner, or it could just be that she doesn't want to say anything about you because you're somewhat of a polarizing figure in this game. It just seems strange to me that she should start reads like that and end rather abruptly.
Haylen wrote:Scum like to buddy townies.
They also like to buddy their scumpartners. The biggest issue here, though, is if you're saying DP is likely town because of this, then why say that DP might be a good lynch to get info when you're not sure if we're in mylo?
I still need to go through and get my own reads updated. I hope to get this done this weekend since this next week will be rather hectic.
I don't feel very confident in a Haylen lynch at this point.
Just from reaidng recent posts. Don't have time to catch up and comment on everything, but I have done a readthrough, I'm still confident in an Emp lynch and to see where that goes. I will be kicking myself if he's town and Corv is scum, but I feel that's not the case.
Holidays with friends+family is making my contributions not as useful as I'd like sorry
Seeing as we are in a "possible" mylo at the moment, the quick wagon on Fenhl was definitely scummy. Sure it's good for some pressure, but really it kicked off way to quick. Even at L-2, I can't believe everyone on the wagon was happy to keep their vote there with a wagon that had got to L-2 so quickly in possible mylo with 8 players.
I think emp is scummy, I don't think neko has been particularly scummy, but given an emp scum-flip he would definitely fall into somewhat more unfavorable position and would have to give his posts a once-over.
I'm saddened that Corv wasn't lynched earlier, ie day 1, but now that he's still alive, i'd rather keep him alive since I do have a town read on him. So my vote stays on Emp.
OK, updating my reads. I think a summary of voting patterns may be helpful (this is mostly for reference):
Note that LGF is not only consistently not voting Corv, but is also consistently voting against a lynch candidate. Also consistently not voting Corv at deadline is DP. DP’s earlier play is really terrible, and I’ve already summarized some reasons for believing there’s a good chance he’s scum. His more recent posts have been much more thought out, but with yet another no-lynch that he could have prevented, I’d consider him a possible lynch candidate again.
Corv, as I’ve said, I find not quite as likely to be scum at this point. In fact, the cases against FA/Corv have seemed fairly weak. His lynch would have been incredibly useful yesterday, and it was the best chance at a lynch, but there are much better options today.
LGF and CAMH are basically in the same category- a series of non-existent players. May we all be blessed with the patience of our mod for dealing with so many replacements in one game. Each of these players has been largely ignored until now, hence my eagerness to vote them and shine some light on them. After all, there is a slight possibility that they are two scum in a two-scum game. The biggest thing separating the two is the fact that at least Haylen wasn’t partly responsible for the latest no-lynch, while Fenhl was part of the last-minute Emp wagon. Suspect posts can be found from each of them recently, and it actually would not be too far out there to think they are both scum considering their voting patterns.
Emp- Early arguments against Emp I found pretty weak. The early MC request is a null-tell, really. I don’t like all of his reactions in that period, but since then he has played fairly level-headedly. Early D3 he put Corv at L-1, saying he didn’t want to delay the lynch, but at the start of D3 he was voting Noc because that’s where the wagon was. This is a bit troubling, but I otherwise don’t see much of a case on him, yet his name, like Corv’s continually comes up for a lynch. HF was probably the biggest proponent from D1, and in the effort to get him lynched at the end of D3, it’s DP and Fenhl. Corv asks me to reconsider voting alongside Emp, but should I really feel compelled to vote with DP and LGF? Of course, there is the possibility that Emp is scum and his partner(s) thought some distancing+no-lynch+not having to commit to a hammer looked rather appealing. I doubt, however, an Emp+LGF combo, unless their strategy has been to try to bus each other. An Emp+DP combo might yet be possible. But I still don’t see where the case on Emp has been laid out very neatly. Corv insists he’s most likely to be scum probability-wise, but what is that based on? Is this going back to one of your first posts, Corv?
Noc- There are some good reasons to think Noc might be scum based on votes. He helped prevent Corv’s lynch on both D1 and D2. But DP is the one that swung the wagon toward Singer D2, and he’s just as much responsible for the D1 no-lynch. Noc’s posts don’t reveal, as far as I can see, anything too troubling except for his D2 vote on Corv, which I think I’ve already talked about.
Rhinox- Also absent from the D3 deadline, but mostly solid posts. I don’t agree with most of his earlier case against Corvuus, but I don’t see anything very scummy by it.
I think that covers everybody, and with that I feel confident in finding scum in one if not all or most of LGF, Haylen, and DP. I’m keeping my vote on Haylen as there are still questions she needs to answer.
DP, we’re not in the stage of lynching people to “see where it goes.” Also, I think a quickwagon only leading to L-2 in possible mylo pales in comparison to a quickwagon leading to a no-lynch and the cause of the possible mylo. Tell me, whose votes were you counting on to make that wagon work?
], I'm less inclined to see you as most likely town right now especially since I'm getting a cognitive dissonance feeling. I'm not willing to lynch you before EMP's flip but I do think it is something worth mentioning depending on where things fall. 
