Micro 629 - The Arena - Game Over

[Accountant]

thats why i said it was a scum claim which he just dodged and pretended like it wasn't there

[Hopkirk]

thats why i said it was a scum claim which he just dodged and pretended like it wasn't there

What respond do you expect to quoting a post and saying 'this is a scumclaim'?

[Hopkirk]

You ignored all of my questions and the most important points. I could respond to what you said but it's a waste of time.
I looked through your post and there was nothing that actually needs responding to.

You know that if you don't vote accountant then you'll be lynched in lylo. No reason for me to respond to anything except what Leon says/asks at this point.

I actually want to here from Leon also - but the bolded is basically claiming everything I've said about you today is correct - buddying up to Leon is your only hope.

Now it's literally 50-50.
I explained why he has to lynch, he chose not to quote that, one of the important points he chose to ignore.
Not lynching as town is a scum claim. Doing so is LITERALLY saying that you think accountant has a higher chance of being town than you yourself have.
The fact accountant doesn't acknowledge this means one of you is scum and one is a VI. Accountant is probably more likely to be the VI.

What likely happens from here:
Magna forces no lynch, kills Leon, game ends. This is what he wants to happen.

[Hopkirk]

Also it's true, no matter what happens here leon either dies or decides.

Accountant lynched= either game win or night. Me/magna crossnominate, Leon lynches.
No lynch 1- I am killed, doesn't happen.
No lynch 2- Accounant killed (Magna scum)- Leon picks.
No lynch 3- Magna killed (Ac scum)- Leon picks.
No lynch 4- Leon killed, Hopkirk lynch. Happens with M/A scum.

If Leon is town and thinks i am town then town wins. That simple.

[Accountant]

thats why i said it was a scum claim which he just dodged and pretended like it wasn't there

What respond do you expect to quoting a post and saying 'this is a scumclaim'?

I was hoping you'd concede tbh

[Hopkirk]

Every word is true and dazzlingly town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Now it's literally 50-50.
I explained why he has to lynch, he chose not to quote that, one of the important points he chose to ignore.
Not lynching as town is a scum claim. Doing so is LITERALLY saying that you think accountant has a higher chance of being town than you yourself have.
The fact accountant doesn't acknowledge this means one of you is scum and one is a VI. Accountant is probably more likely to be the VI.

What likely happens from here:
Magna forces no lynch, kills Leon, game ends. This is what he wants to happen.

Why would I have quoted your post again when it is meaningless from any perspective than yours? Seriously - all that post was predicated from the "Hopkirk will lynch Accountant with no chance of changing" which is pointless for me to address. The fact that you derive from your post that I should lynch if I am Town is meaningless to me given I think you are scum.

The line "not lynching as town is a scum claim" is funny.

I have never said Accountant has a higher chance of being Town than me to me - that's stupid.

I die at Night and you get lynched tomorrow. Simple as that. You are forgetting the most important factor that shows you aren't Town - I know I can win even if we No Lynch and get I get killed tonight because I win when the Town wins. You are not approaching your logic from this point of view when you try to sell the above.

But if we are speaking of not addressing things - everyone should be reminded that Hopkirk has not addressed in any meaningful way the fact that he hammered Town over Scum Day 3.

[Hopkirk]

You are explicitly saying someone whose role pm you have not seen has a 100% chance of being scum. Not taking even a 0.1% chance is scum.

I've responded to your last point. You ignore my response then say I haven't responded.

Not planning to post again until Leon does.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You are explicitly saying someone whose role pm you have not seen has a 100% chance of being scum. Not taking even a 0.1% chance is scum.

Never said that and the misrepresentation is bad.

[Leonshade]

Ah, the rules say that V/LA has no impact on prods. This is going to be a bit of a problem, as I'll be gone 15th-20th. We can't really play around it, either, the deadline being the way it is. I should have limited WIFI, though, so I think I'll at least be able to get a pick in, provided I am gladiated.

@Hopkirk:

I've read everything thus far, except your PBA. Accountant's behavior today looks, to me, very similar to the way Vedith played D3, which led to their lynch. What I'm referring to is their lack of self-defense and the will to spend their time telling people to lynch their scumtell instead of finding reasons to lynch the other gladiate. This has not stopped Accountant from looking like the likely lynch, either, so it's not like they're using it as a weird scum gambit. Hell, it got Vedith lynched, so it would be a bad gambit to begin with.

This is especially concerning since you hammered Vedith after I defended him on the same grounds. Can you explain how you read Accountant's behavior? If scum, why aren't they trying to get me lynched?

[Hopkirk]

You are explicitly saying someone whose role pm you have not seen has a 100% chance of being scum. Not taking even a 0.1% chance is scum.

Never said that and the misrepresentation is bad.

You said that you are not planning to lynch accountant. That means you are saying that, explicitly. How many more times do i have to explain that? You've ignored the explanations repeatedly. What do you not fucking understand, or which fucking part to you not agree with?

Town must prefer to be in lylo them-self above any other player unless they are confirmed at the level of by cop in non bastard game. The only reason to not to lynch is because you either don't understand this or are using accountant for something.

Ah, the rules say that V/LA has no impact on prods. This is going to be a bit of a problem, as I'll be gone 15th-20th. We can't really play around it, either, the deadline being the way it is. I should have limited WIFI, though, so I think I'll at least be able to get a pick in, provided I am gladiated.

@Hopkirk:

I've read everything thus far, except your PBA. Accountant's behavior today looks, to me, very similar to the way Vedith played D3, which led to their lynch. What I'm referring to is their lack of self-defense and the will to spend their time telling people to lynch their scumtell instead of finding reasons to lynch the other gladiate. This has not stopped Accountant from looking like the likely lynch, either, so it's not like they're using it as a weird scum gambit. Hell, it got Vedith lynched, so it would be a bad gambit to begin with.

This is especially concerning since you hammered Vedith after I defended him on the same grounds. Can you explain how you read Accountant's behavior? If scum, why aren't they trying to get me lynched?

Firstly i'm also going to be V/LA from 16th-18th with possibly 0 internet access for all of that. We could pause the game or something.

Regarding accountant the play is explained by him trying to coast by on towncred from nominating then lynching a partner. He doesn't want to say anything that is highly challengable. Also Vedith seemed to have given up, accountant is just... flying low isn't quite the right term but something like that.
Accountant doesn't need to get you lynched if scum, and if town knows that i am not going to switch.
idk what a pba is.

That being said, i now think magna is more likely scum than accountant by a bit.

Either way though there is no reason not to lynch accountant.

[Accountant]

Regarding accountant the play is explained by him trying to coast by on towncred from nominating then lynching a partner. He doesn't want to say anything that is highly challengable.

I started off the day by going hard on a widely townread player who wasn't my gladiate opponent, then offered to lynch myself.

[Leonshade]

So like I said before, I didn't have much time to reassess my reads before making my pick. I wasn't here at all during D5, then I found out that Dunn flipped town, and found out that I was the gladiator shortly before deadline. While Dunn flipping town should've made me re-evaluate all my reads, with the little time I had I decided to stick with whom I had found the next most likely scum beforehand, Accountant. I had started to have suspicions about Hopkirk, but as I had townread him so heavily prior, I decided to go with what I felt in my gut was the "safe" pick instead of going against my prior reads.

But now I'm fairly convinced that Accountant is town. Their play resembles Vedith's D3 game in motivation, and it doesn't feel like a weird scum gambit, either. Even more unlikely is D4 being a scum gambit, especially when it would've been so easy to get Dunn mislynched D4.

What sticks out to me most is that the only player that seems concerned about dying is Hopkirk. Accountant is on the chopping block but doesn't care, while Hopkirk, for all his accusations of everyone else playing for tomorrow, seems to be the most worried about tomorrow. For someone scumreading Accountant, Hopkirk seems really worried about LYLO. Hopkirk is cracking under pressure despite not being the lynch for today, which tells me that he knows that there's going to be another Day.

I read Accountant/frog as almost impossible and Magna/frog as unlikely. I now think that I was correct about the first one, and I'm fairly confident in the latter. I did not even consider Hopkirk for scum while making my reads, which I now know was a mistake. I was really confident in frog/Dunn being the scumteam after frog flipped, so Dunn flipping town threw me for a loop, but now I see the one possibility I refused to consider: frog/Hopkirk.

I will be rereading some stuff, and I would prefer to keep this Day going until I've done so. I have a feeling that if we lynch Accountant, I will be the gladiate again, as picking the V/LA for gladiate worked out so well this Day. It's harder for me to figure out what an NL would cause, so I think a lynch would still be preferable for town.

[Accountant]

Look at how Hop went from scumreading me, and then suddenly it's Magna with me as a second place read - because he was setting up the dominoes since he knows damn well there's going to be another day.

Lynch me and end Hopkirk's life.

[Hopkirk]

Because as town I wouldn't know that if we lynch town there's another day. Despite going through things 3 days ago I apparently don't know that. This game isn't worth wasting any more time on, town is dumb and doesn't respond to posts anyway. No intention to check thread again until lynch or prod being due.

[Hopkirk]

Magna and frog btw. I got it right at least.

[Accountant]

This isnt the tone of someone frustrated at town not getting that magna is obvscum, this is the tone of scum giving a final shot at winning so they don't walk home in shame

[Leonshade]

Scum pretending to lose interest in the game. You played well but kinda blew it today, Hopkirk.

[Hopkirk]

If magna isn't lynching can we just go to deadline?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because as town I wouldn't know that if we lynch town there's another day. Despite going through things 3 days ago I apparently don't know that. This game isn't worth wasting any more time on, town is dumb and doesn't respond to posts anyway. No intention to check thread again until lynch or prod being due.

Why would Town not know that. It's pretty clear given that the role PMs are publicly posted so we that the Mafia's wincon is not different from the standard - when the Mafia numbers equal Town. So there logically has to be a tomorrow unless we eliminate the Mafia today.

Frankly given all the times you've said "MoI is playing for tomorrow" it is pretty clear you fully understood that there was a tomorrow if the lynch today is not scum.

--

So now that Leon has weighed in I feel better about today. I'm not particularly interested in lynching either of you today since I don't see you as Mafia but if Accountant is willing to eat the rope I'll go along with it.

[BNL]

Vote Count 6.2

Leonshade (0):
Accountant (0):
Not Voting (2): MagnaofIllusion, Hopkirk

With 2 votes in play it takes 2 to lynch.
The deadline is at 15 September 11:00am EDT (UTC-4), or in (expired on 2016-09-15 11:00:00).

Mod Notes:
Leonshade will be V/LA from 15-20 September.

[Hopkirk]

Because as town I wouldn't know that if we lynch town there's another day. Despite going through things 3 days ago I apparently don't know that. This game isn't worth wasting any more time on, town is dumb and doesn't respond to posts anyway. No intention to check thread again until lynch or prod being due.

Why would Town not know that. It's pretty clear given that the role PMs are publicly posted so we that the Mafia's wincon is not different from the standard - when the Mafia numbers equal Town. So there logically has to be a tomorrow unless we eliminate the Mafia today.

Frankly given all the times you've said "MoI is playing for tomorrow" it is pretty clear you fully understood that there was a tomorrow if the lynch today is not scum.

--

So now that Leon has weighed in I feel better about today. I'm not particularly interested in lynching either of you today since I don't see you as Mafia but if Accountant is willing to eat the rope I'll go along with it.

I said x then demonstrated x was sarcastic by showing I had done the reverse of x multiple times.
You respond to that by saying 'so you about x'
Town cannot be as consistently dumb as that.

Playing for tomorrow- I began day with a vote on the more likely mafia. You began by attacking the person you wanted to lynch tomorrow.
You are the luckiest mafia I can remember considering the town you got.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Playing for tomorrow- I began day with a vote on the more likely mafia. You began by attacking the person you wanted to lynch tomorrow.
You are the luckiest mafia I can remember considering the town you got.

Nice dodge. Again - you can't pretend that you are Town for not knowing there would be a tomorrow when every Town can clearly see in the opening posts and provided RolePMs that with 1 Mafia left that will be a Gladiate with one deciding voter.

As to how I began the day - you are correct I began the Day attacking who I think was the last Mafia. Which has been clearly laid out as to why. The fact that you unfortunately are not in the Gladiate pool for today is irrelevant. I'm have been trying to solve the game.

You started today going after the mislynch that best fit your desired endgame and groom the mislynch for tomorrow in your appeals to Leonshade.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If it wasn't understood I'm waiting on positive confirmation from Accountant and Leon that they both think it is best to lynch Accountant before voting.

[Hopkirk]

@Leon, look at what magna excluded from that quote and tell me he's town.