Mini 1800 - Game Over

[MechaGoomba]

I would like to state for the record that

I do not counterclaim karnos.

[JohnnyFarrar]

You ever seen that role before Karnos?

[karnos]

No, I haven't.

[Wingback]

I'm ambivalent of the claim and on my read of Karnos. On the one hand, there are the two towntells that I've pointed out from him both of which I still believe. But there's also the really blatant mason-fishing which is exactly how scum about to be lynched can benefit their team. Not to mention, nine times out of ten, when scum get run up on D1, I'd expect them to claim a PR to buy themselves another day.

I don't really expect any counterclaims. Neapolitan seems to be a fairly uncommon role. If any has a very similar role (Neapolitan, vanilla cop, or some type of flavor cop), they should counterclaim when they log on. Until I see that, I'll proceed with the assumption that there aren't any.

Regardless, I'm not voting a null/conflicted read that just claimed a PR. Even if he's scum, he has a pretty short shelf life and we did what we could locking him into a claim. If he's town, we'll get useful results leaving him alive for a day or two. Optimal move today is to focus elsewhere.

Mathblade and Johnny are the ones I'm scumreading the most and where I'm willing to vote today.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Ooh let's get a wagon going on me, that'll be fun .

We def shouldn't lynch Karnos probably

[qubixes]

What about the case that he is Neapolitan and scum? Neapolitan seems to be quite a useful role as scum, so I don't see the problem there. Also, don't really see the useful results we would be getting if we're letting him be alive. I mean he obviously shouldn't claim his results outright, since it would have a high chance of outing PR's. So it's useful when someone claims VT/PR when Karnos has a check on him? And then we would still need to believe he is town aligned, because otherwise we're going to be manipulated super badly.

Still disagree about CC'ing. If the wagon falls apart completely, maybe. Also what if there is a Neapolitan+whatever cop (town aligned)? Or is that never going to happen in a normal?

[Persivul]

Ooh let's get a wagon going on me, that'll be fun .

We def shouldn't lynch Karnos probably

Why are you being so useless?

[Masquerade]

I'm inclined to believe Karnos' claim. He's hinted at being PR during his pressure and I think scum would love to claim if they can come up with a good one and since scum have daytalk, if Karnos is scum his buddies could have helped him. I would have expected a claim to happen sooner if he was scum, so to say.
Also, the lack of a counterwagon being pushed tells me scum aren't interested in moving the attention away from Karnos.
I'm not sure about mathblade yet, he should be experienced enough to not assume scum hard-defend each other? If Wingback and I are Karnos' buddies, why would we want to endanger ourselves? For a long time it looked like Karnos was getting lynched no matter what. I'd rather lynch someone who hasn't given an opinion yet. I'll start with Johnny because he suggested it.

VOTE: Johnny
What are your reads on Wingback, Mecha and mathblade atm? Do you believe Karnos' claim?

@Qubixes: My first instinct was 'well that kinda cop is more useful to scum than to town' but that was before I checked the wiki and still thought it was just a fancy name for a vanilla cop. Best case scenario Karnos (if his claim is true and town-aligned) lives until lylo and cleared enough players, or identified scum, to get us a win. But that depends on other factors. I think 2 town cops will make town very strong and I have never seen it happen (tracker/watcher with cop sometimes ye, but not 2 kinds of cops) If there is another cop, I think they should decide for themselves whether to cc or not. I'm not cc'ing Karnos' claim, but if I had a cop-role I wouldn't cc for reasons I don't want to explain rn.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Johnny

Came in with a big splash to get town read but then did nothing.

[MechaGoomba]

since scum have daytalk

Um, what? The rules say nothing about daytalk. In fact, the Normal Game page specifically says that daytalk can only exist if the rules say so, or if there's an Encryptor.
Does anyone else see this as a scumslip or am I just being paranoid?

Came in with a big splash to get town read but then did nothing.

In fact, his big splash isn't actually that contentful in retrospect. He's mainly just pointing out silly/mildly scummy things people have said, buddying active players a lot (count how many times he said "I like you" instead of "this looks town" or "I agree with this"), and complaining about how the karnos wagon hasn't built up to a lynch yet.
A whole ton of stuff that looks sort of townie at first glance because it's, theoretically, discussing reads, but the stuff from it is all stuff the non-replacement players have already taken into account and so it's not actually useful in any way. I don't actually get any sense of his reads from it.

VOTE: JohnnyFarrar

[Kappy]

since scum have daytalk

Um, what? The rules say nothing about daytalk. In fact, the Normal Game page specifically says that daytalk can only exist if the rules say so, or if there's an Encryptor.
Does anyone else see this as a scumslip or am I just being paranoid?

This looks scummy.
VOTE: Masquerade

[Masquerade]

Check the rules ib the OP. ALL factions with pt may talk at any time.

Kappy is opportunistic. I'd vote him if I didn't like the wagon on johnny happening.

[Masquerade]

Can't quote it on phone but it's number 4 in post #2

[Kappy]

Oh... didn't see that. Now I feel stupid. UNVOTE:

[Masquerade]

Actually I think mecha is scummier for asking first.

[Persivul]

buddying active players a lot

Yeah I had that feeling myself when he came in.

[MathBlade]

VLA til Monday evening for Father's Day and work

@mod

I do not believe Karnos's claim in the slightest. That claim is so sketch. He literally claims a PR that should not give town results, yet everyone is like "Okay let's not lynch the scummiest player because they claimed a weird variant of cop." And worse a cop that has very little protown reason to state their results.

Furthermore look at Masquerade's first post after the claim. They try to enshrine the Karnos claim as gospel. And I completely disagree with their argument. I would have expected a town player to claim the first time they were at L-1. A town player does not mason hunt and out. Just no. I can think of a couple ways this went down

1) Karnos is a Neopolitan but is scum so Masquerade doesn't like when they say they believe the claim, but at the same time throws shade on Johnny.
2) Karnos is a Neopolitan but is scum so Masquerade is throwing themselves into the limelight here in order to do scum PR preservation.
3) Karnos is not a Neopolitan and is scum and this is a last ditch effort to mislynch town.

We should be lynching Karnos today. See y'all on Monday

[MathBlade]

Oh and not counter claiming FYI

[MathBlade]

Doesn't lie* phone post

[Masquerade]

mathblade, your idiocy makes it very hard for me to take you seriously. I also think it makes you town because I don't think scum will go where you are going.
How about you respond to my point of an entire scumteam hard-defending a buddy?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Ooh let's get a wagon going on me, that'll be fun .

We def shouldn't lynch Karnos probably

Why are you being so useless?

Been busy

[qubixes]

@Masquerade: Can I sign up for idiot town too?

So, every time someone claims a PR, we're going to build a wagon on someone else? Sounds like a great way to out some PR's and get a VT lynched. Don't see why I should move my vote. Lynch the lurker for the win?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Am I a lurker?

[Wingback]

VOTE: JohnnyFarrar

[JohnnyFarrar]

What are your reads on Wingback, Mecha and mathblade atm? Do you believe Karnos' claim?

Based on what they've done since I subbed in and the first 9 pages:

Wingback seems hard to read because he doesn't seem to be very good at the game. He was Sick, right? So maybe his wordiness is defensiveness comes from people's bad opinion on Sick? I dunno.

I remember liking Mech being decently town looking in the first9, but nothing lately seems remarkable. I won't be voting him any time soon, if that helps.

Literally no opinion of mathblade. Had to double check to make sure he was in this game.