(revO) xudeR aifaM esreveR - 3831 iniM

[Tierce]

It's not only about the stronger Town-voting base.

Look at our 'LyLo' days. Heck, look at the final day. 4:2.

All four Townies

had to agree on a revival or it would not go through. That is why we had to leave the confTowns to the end. Scum can't argue their revivals, that's true, but more importantly: Townies trust confTown are Town, and will revive them without hesitation on the final days. We could not leave margin for error, because if scum refused to vote Town,

all Townies in limbo

had to cooperate on a specific revival. The best way to convince people to vote for someone in specific is making sure they are voting for someone(s) universally known as Town--which were snifit and malpascp. Problem solved, the final days are no longer a concern.


By the by, snifit, the accusation about our reads not being good kind of hurt; it was obvious we were doing well with those we

did

get revived. People get reads wrong, and we had plenty of signs that we were trying to make a Town win as close to inevitable as possible.

[Thor665]

All I know is I've been obv. town in some games and the case presented on me is functionally translatable s "Look at his badges, Thor is tricksy" and nothing else.
And people consider the case valid.

[Tierce]

That is about as good as "they are calling themselves obvTown, Town doesn't do that". Which is

silly

. Of course Town does that. Yes, it can be obnoxious. It's not scummy, though, and this game is a shining example of that.

There are reasons to be wary of competent players, but that only means that one's own scumhunting on them needs to be on a corresponding level of competence. Calling for lynches on Scummies/high scum win rates is nonsensical.

[snifit]

By the by, snifit, the accusation about our reads not being good kind of hurt

Sorry. I was frustrated with you at that point. You're right that your reads weren't out-of-line bad. Pony was a good find, but you were accusing Thor of things you were equally/moreso guilty of. The read on me came out of nowhere as well--and you seemed to think I thought you were scum as well, when I thought my tone was pretty clearly town-talking-to-town-who-is-going-down-the-wrong-path.

Definitely some good town play out of you and Vi this game, but there were also some weird things that I wasn't comfortable with. You were pretty undeniably town by Day5, anyway.

[Thor665]

I thought Sixty looked much better after the Voided thing and even reveiwed the slot at lylo because it was looking better to me - but I'll agree I was content not to bother with the flip after the Day 1 play myself.

[Thor665]

That is about as good as "they are calling themselves obvTown, Town doesn't do that". Which is

silly

. Of course Town does that. Yes, it can be obnoxious. It's not scummy, though, and this game is a shining example of that.

There are reasons to be wary of competent players, but that only means that one's own scumhunting on them needs to be on a corresponding level of competence. Calling for lynches on Scummies/high scum win rates is nonsensical.

Oh, and trust me, I know this and you know this, but not enough people know this

[Tierce]

The read on me came out of nowhere as well

You still don't see it, do you?

Ty: By the by, I don't think lynching snifit at any stage is a good plan. There was something that was nagging me earlier, before he started answering. Let's see if I can find it again.
Ty: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4386641
Ty: This post.
Ty: It rings of scum reading Town.
Ty: And that he didn't even consider this "Counterpoint to that would be he's scum who wants to revive and kill someone he knows is a strong town player, but nah." for Thor, just for Xalxe.
Ty: Because... when you look at that post, I get the impression that that is not how Town would get a read on Xalxe-town. Yes, it might be a towntell, but it's the kind of towntell that is spotted by scum, not by Town.
Six: It reads way too much into Xalxe's motivations

Your read on Xalxe felt like you presenting it from an informed position. No one has information like that on D1 except scum... and Masons. I mentioned it during the game: this is the kind of weird I-know-this-player's-alignment-and-they-know-mine that makes Masons look scummy. Cops suffer from similar cases on smaller games, when they are forced to justify Townreads without claiming. The read was reasonable and I'm actually proud I spotted it; the thing is that the kind of alignment knowledge it was based on was Mason-Mason. That interaction was, in fact, one of the large factors in decreasing my paranoia level about you.

[malpascp]

One idea: scum PRs.

[snifit]

Oh, right. I had a good laugh about that when you made the original post; I'm glad you realized what the hell was going on there before I had to correct you.

I was pretty proud of that Xalxe post, myself.

[saulres]

I realize that everyone keeps saying this game is scum-sided, but I'm just not seeing it with all the conftown. I'll have to analyze it to see why people are saying that.

If scum do need more power, maybe they should be able to take someone from Limbo directly to dead? Or at least make the unrevivable?

[Vi]

I realize that everyone keeps saying this game is scum-sided, but I'm just not seeing it with all the conftown. I'll have to analyze it to see why people are saying that.

The -mechanic- is scum-sided.

[Tierce]

It's the mechanic and the win conditions, saul. They are scumsided. The power roles offset that quite thoroughly, especially with the decision of flipping confTown in the final days.

PEdit: ...Stop doing that.

[Toon Fighter]

Hey, gg town. thought the way the game was set, without anyway for town to check scum's alignment (aka lynching) was scum sided, but in the end the game was pretty balanced. Would like to try another reverse game, but bigger, as it has been suggested.

Oh, and Tierce, I know a fair bit about balanced setups

But the game punishes scum play quite badly too. In other games, obvscum can just be killed and be done with it. Here, they are expected to keep posting and doing something when all town will ignore them/try something stupid like sala did. It's pretty bad for obvscum/someone suspected of being scum.

[Thor665]

@Saulres - simple answer - do you think the player skill level was equally distributed in this game? This particular game using this setup ended up being townsided - the setup is likely still scum sided though. Even if you think it's balanced, recognize that you are saying it is balanced with the ability for town to confirm the alignments of

almost half of the players in the game

.

If you can see that being "balanced" you have to believe that a all goon scum team has some major stuff going for them - focus on how that stuff might have gone with a different set of players in the scum team and then you'll know why the game is scumsided.

Hell, look at me Day 1 - I almost got hammered by simply saying 'yo, I iz town!' imagine me as scum in that setup being a bit more politic about it? Yeah...

[guille2015]

I had plenty of fun in this game. I do not think it was scum sided, maybe a little. Sixty or Thor could have been easily scum. The cop could have confirmed scum and not town. But town hunting is kinda easier than scum hunting.

Thanks for the game ice guy. I will certainly add you as favorite mod.

[Xisiqomelir]

Good job Voided, Whiskers, Tierce and Vi and "oh dear" to Thor.

Oh come on - I called Josh first I believe and also opposed the Konowa wagon at the appropriate spot. My only misread was Piggy and (functionally) Sixty. And though I opposed some town revives I did argue for other town revives and even dropped my Piggy push when I heard the case on her and agreed she as suspect enough not to be pushing for.

I'll admit maybe I always read N bad - he just always looks scummy to me.

Your play in general was quite excellent, but that read in particular was atrocious, and if it had sailed through unopposed it would have taken town halfway to a loss. "Oh dear" I think is the appropriate level of mild censure.

As a spectator of the game I found the #288 which provoked #290 equally as amusing.

[snifit]

Huh? You could say "Oh dear" to everyone who bothered to post reads if that's your threshold for criticism.

[Xisiqomelir]

Huh? You could say "Oh dear" to everyone who bothered to post reads if that's your threshold for criticism.

I don't think "oh dear" is a very negative remark?

[Thor665]

Oh dear.

[Xisiqomelir]

Oh dear.

*mild stinging sensation*

[Whiskers]

If scum do need more power, maybe they should be able to take someone from Limbo directly to dead? Or at least make the unrevivable?

The first of these might be viable. It has to be delayed, though-- otherwise, there's a good enough chance they'll sublimate Vi or Thor first thing Day 1.

The second is NOT a good idea (unless, MAYBE there are a TON more scum and they can sacrifice one). Otherwise it's pretty much clear that the unrevivable is confirmed town.

Oh. OOOh, I get it. So like, in Lylo, they use their lynch-block. That might work. IF it's "Only in LyLo", it guides the scum.

[Voidedmafia]

Was I a good partner, Whisky?

[Whiskers]

Yeah, we'll do it again. Have a win rate of 100%.

Ah... maybe later though. I'm getting that apathetic feel where I give no shits about playing mafia. I'll be back next season, though.

[Equinox]

?eniM