Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[ECMitchell]

there's a difference (a big one) between trying to appear to solve, which is the feeling im getting from you, and not caring at all, which is Gerry. And i don't have a problem with the fact you're scum reading me. But that a big part of why you're scum reading me is w/w with Wheme, is insane in a bad way

Agreed, there's a difference there. But that's not what you accused me of doing in your post. "Doesn't feel drive to solve," is an entirely different statement from "is trying too hard to appear like he's solving."

You're all over the place my man.

[ECMitchell]

And lol at pushing scum on me for trying to understand the powers of a role. If something is pro-scum, it's pro-town for us to know how that works regardless so you're making 0 sense

?

And the converse is just as true. If something is pro-town, it's pro-scum to detail explicitly how its mechanics work.

[Terata]

And lol at pushing scum on me for trying to understand the powers of a role. If something is pro-scum, it's pro-town for us to know how that works regardless so you're making 0 sense

i misread what you said, but i asked how a townrole works once it's outted, and obviously at least 1 member of scum can discuss that in scum chat regardless. So it's already known info to the scum, so why shouldn't town know it too?

[Aj The Epic]

Also I don't see associative things between me and Lowell that AJ was pointing out... like maybe we were on similar wagon's around similar times but that's all?

So the fact that you two both decided to beat a dead sheep was a part of it. The second is that Lowell's posture after I stated this was to say you're scummy but not as scummy as Sheep (as seen by his vote and only FOS on you). Last, you do have a tendency to defend him subtly, specifically in your case vs sheep when you talk about cooperation and shit. And of course you being really into Wheme being town hasn't been that helpful in dissuading my feelings on this. Lowell won't even give a read on Wheme.

Definitely can't say that I understand how committal you are on Lowell. To me, he's pretty cut and dry.

VOTE: Lowell

I will admit though I'm more confident on him being scum. He's blatantly just going for big wagons.

Also, Terata's actions recently are suspect. He actually has Gerry down twice in his reads, null and weak town. He's reading Lowell as town... On the same level of his read on me which is unequivocally garbage. And his Chaos read being scum leans is definitely FOTM rather than actual belief. My belief is he's trying to gauge some reads off of other people and is a bit behind on trends.

I want Fro99er to tell me what about Lowell/Terata's vote switches made him comfortable following that. I know you townread Terata but Lowell looks like a freelancer willing to lynch anyone BUT Wheme at this point.

P-edit: Yeah I don't know if terata is out of his league vs ECMitchell or that's just strong town mitchell but Terata's definitely not winning this argument.

[Terata]

Also I don't see associative things between me and Lowell that AJ was pointing out... like maybe we were on similar wagon's around similar times but that's all?

So the fact that you two both decided to beat a dead sheep was a part of it. The second is that Lowell's posture after I stated this was to say you're scummy but not as scummy as Sheep (as seen by his vote and only FOS on you). Last, you do have a tendency to defend him subtly, specifically in your case vs sheep when you talk about cooperation and shit. And of course you being really into Wheme being town hasn't been that helpful in dissuading my feelings on this. Lowell won't even give a read on Wheme.

Definitely can't say that I understand how committal you are on Lowell. To me, he's pretty cut and dry.

VOTE: Lowell

I will admit though I'm more confident on him being scum. He's blatantly just going for big wagons.

Also, Terata's actions recently are suspect. He actually has Gerry down twice in his reads, null and weak town He's reading Lowell as town... On the same level of his read on me which is unequivocally garbage. And his Chaos read being scum leans is definitely FOTM rather than actual belief. My belief is he's trying to gauge some reads off of other people and is a bit behind on trends.

I want Fro99er to tell me what about Lowell/Terata's vote switches made him comfortable following that. I know you townread Terata but Lowell looks like a freelancer willing to lynch anyone BUT Wheme at this point.

P-edit: Yeah I don't know if terata is out of his league vs ECMitchell or that's just strong town mitchell but Terata's definitely not winning this argument.

lol, shading me for not removing the old placement of Gerry from my list. He's null btw. And why are you putting a "winner" in an argument about bs? he literally shaded me for wanting to understand the claimed role. You wanna talk about why you think my reads are garbage, then go ahead, but blatant shading isn't getting anywhere.

Also, what does FOTM mean?

[Terata]

there's a difference (a big one) between trying to appear to solve, which is the feeling im getting from you, and not caring at all, which is Gerry. And i don't have a problem with the fact you're scum reading me. But that a big part of why you're scum reading me is w/w with Wheme, is insane in a bad way

Agreed, there's a difference there. But that's not what you accused me of doing in your post. "Doesn't feel drive to solve," is an entirely different statement from "is trying too hard to appear like he's solving."

You're all over the place my man.

You made up the "too hard" yourself. You're giving out the image of solving, but i don't get the hunty vibes and the DRIVE TO SOLVE from your posts. While Gerry is simply not giving a fk. Not sure where you're going with this line but it's not a good look for you.

[Aj The Epic]

Flavor of the month/moment.

Funny how everything you disagree with is 'shading'. Stop using a buzzword incorrectly. ECM is making points that you don't have good answers for. Specifically:

there's a difference (a big one) between trying to appear to solve, which is the feeling im getting from you, and not caring at all, which is Gerry. And i don't have a problem with the fact you're scum reading me. But that a big part of why you're scum reading me is w/w with Wheme, is insane in a bad way

Agreed, there's a difference there. But that's not what you accused me of doing in your post. "Doesn't feel drive to solve," is an entirely different statement from "is trying too hard to appear like he's solving."

You're all over the place my man.

In your most recent post, you've still yet to show an example of what you're seeing here.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Hawk's wall on you, combined with his post on Wheme, looks like an attempt to derail the Wheme lynch and drag attention back to you. The case reads as recycled material and having an agenda. He's my top scumread not named WhemeStar.

I don't agree with your take of his motivations, but could see them within a world where Wheme is being a scum read.
He just feels a lot like newb-bait to me, and I get why you're buying the claim sans alignment, but I just have a hard time otherwise taking it as a fake claim considering the newb vibe. So he has to be an odd-night rolestopper, and I don't see that alone as a reason to overlook the newb vibe. It's not like he's looking predicated, he's looking directionless - town newb more likely, yeah?

[gerryoat]

Gonna be honest, this is a prod dodge post.

But, I like the posts of aj, he might be town. And sheep is growing on me

[Fro99er]

Gerry is town

[Fro99er]

I want Fro99er to tell me what about Lowell/Terata's vote switches made him comfortable following that. I know you townread Terata but Lowell looks like a freelancer willing to lynch anyone BUT Wheme at this point.

I have a reason and I've saved it to a draft so that I can reply later.

[WhemeStar]

Gerry is town

May we have your reasons?

[Fro99er]

No

[gerryoat]

he's day cop he checked me day 1

[Fro99er]

Well now you ruined it Gerry

[Lowell]

there's a difference (a big one) between trying to appear to solve, which is the feeling im getting from you, and not caring at all, which is Gerry. And i don't have a problem with the fact you're scum reading me. But that a big part of why you're scum reading me is w/w with Wheme, is insane in a bad way

Agreed, there's a difference there. But that's not what you accused me of doing in your post. "Doesn't feel drive to solve," is an entirely different statement from "is trying too hard to appear like he's solving."

You're all over the place my man.

Okay but this isn't really what the rest of us have been saying. And either way is bad.

[ChaosOmega]

@Chaos - you called him out for a read change with about 100 posts inbetween. I haven't gone back and looked, but I'm pretty sure Frog and I wall war-ed it up during those 100 posts in some level. I would also note that at some point in the game Frog claimed I lacked logic and about 2 players sheeped him off that call (even though later Frog admitted he'd "misunderstood" me in his case). While we're at it, people are still acting like his original case had merit, without comment on how even Frog shifted his case.

So, to be short, I think there was a silly amount of negativity and noise about the case, and I think multiple players (town and scum) kind of hopped on it/weren't reading and just going for the possible mislynch/some combination thereof. So a read change hardly seems shocking to me at that stage.

Wheme, can you cite the posts that gave you pause and caused you to 180 on Sheep?

His ISO #8, #9, #11, he voted Froggy for not answering his questions, which looks like to me he tried to get a wagon on froggy going and get pressure of of him

(for reference, those ISO numbers refer to post 107, 110, and 158)

Sheep, now knowing that the reason for Wheme's 180 are all within the first 7 pages, after which Wheme had previously called your slot town multiple times (307, 329, 332), does that change your thoughts on his flip on your slot?

Wheme, you said, "he voted Froggy for not answering his questions, which looks like to me he tried to get a wagon on froggy going and get pressure of of him". I definitely see pro-town motive in that summary. This is my big problem with all of this. It looks like you're singing along with the melody, but you don't understand the lyrics. Post 110 that you cited has fucking nothing at all to do with Sheep's push on frogger. You said before that your opinions this game are thoughts of others jumbled into what you like. Was your early town read on Sheep gotten in that way?

------

Open question to anyone that scumreads Wheme but doesn't want to lynch them because of the Rolestopper claim: Why? What benefit are you hoping to gain by giving them a night to work? Even if they are town, their power is neutered now because the scum know they have to play around a protection.

[ECMitchell]

there's a difference (a big one) between trying to appear to solve, which is the feeling im getting from you, and not caring at all, which is Gerry. And i don't have a problem with the fact you're scum reading me. But that a big part of why you're scum reading me is w/w with Wheme, is insane in a bad way

Agreed, there's a difference there. But that's not what you accused me of doing in your post. "Doesn't feel drive to solve," is an entirely different statement from "is trying too hard to appear like he's solving."

You're all over the place my man.

Okay but this isn't really what the rest of us have been saying. And either way is bad.

I'm curious why you felt the need to respond on Terata's behalf. Not to mention there's a lot wrong with your response in general:

"This isn't really what the rest of us have been saying." By "rest of us," who exactly do you mean? At the moment there are only three votes against me: Terata, Fro99er, and you. Terata's reasoning is extremely inconsistent, Fro99er hasn't really shared his reasons yet, and your own reasons have been repeatedly refuted and disputed with no follow-up or elaboration from you: Post 371, Post 431, Post 532, Post 621.

"And either way is bad." Yes, that'd be an apt enough statement. Only he's yet to substantiate his original accusation that I "have no drive to solve." My posts are littered with me attempting to find scum reads and scum pairs, yet after I point that out to him, his argument suddenly became, "You're just trying to appear like you're solving." There's no firm line of reasoning from either of you.

So explain to me what the "rest of [you] have been saying," exactly?

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Chaos - I'm very conflicted.

My initial response is - he's clearly misunderstanding your question, because no one is trying to justify a read change around Post #400 with evidence from Posts in the low 100s.
On further consideration I realize it is also a valid argument to suggest he's scum just kind of flailing a bit *because* the answer makes so little sense.

You've successfully abused my read on him, you have not come close to making him feel as scummy as Hawk to me though.
I think I'm still mostly reading it as newb flail over scum flail if you demand a clear opinion.

[Lowell]

@EC- because it's about you, and I'm trying to get you lynched. Ter doesn't speak for everyone on your wagon and I'll respond to what I want. The case is about you, not ter. It doesn't matter who pushes that case forward.

[ChaosOmega]

frogger, why are you voting EC? It looks like you sheeped Lowell, but I'd be inclined to agree with EC in 642 that Lowell's case is pretty awful. What do you see there?

[Fro99er]

I want Fro99er to tell me what about Lowell/Terata's vote switches made him comfortable following that. I know you townread Terata but Lowell looks like a freelancer willing to lynch anyone BUT Wheme at this point.

I have a reason and I've saved it to a draft so that I can reply later.

[ChaosOmega]

Lol, I guess I should have read up 10 posts. Interested to see it.

[ECMitchell]

@EC- because it's about you, and I'm trying to get you lynched. Ter doesn't speak for everyone on your wagon and I'll respond to what I want. The case is about you, not ter. It doesn't matter who pushes that case forward.

You going to just ignore 80% of my post? I get you want me lynched. You have struggled to provide a real reason. I repeat my one and only question to you in my previous post

And you're free to respond to whatever you like, just as I'm free to find you speaking for others incredibly scummy

[PenguinPower]

I'll actually read later on.

I'll actually reread and give my reads in a bit.

Gonna be honest, this is a prod dodge post.

So...you going to do this all game?