Mini 1491: WePick

[Empking]

vote count zach

Not Voting: JasonWazza,, Kdub, Who, StubbsKVM, Architect of Thought

three to lynch
(expired on 2013-09-23 03:59:45)

[Architect of Thought]

D1
TheIrishPope - Mafia Traitor (shot by Generic or TPS)
Guyett - Town Vigilante (shot by Generic or TPS)

N1
Pyrotechnics - Vanilla Townie
Generic - Town Day-JOAT

D2
1baldeagle1 - Vanilla Townie (shot by TPS)
Toomai - Town 2-shot Bulletproof

N2
The Purple Shoe - Town Dayvig
dopog - Vanilla Townie

D3 Claims
JasonWazza - Mason
Kdub - Mason Recruiter (Toomai n1, dopog n2)
Who - NK-Immune Miller Vig (shot Generic, Jason)
StubbsKVM - Tracker (Generic N1, Jason N2)
Architect of Thought - Vanilla

Reading through Kdub's ISO, I think the only way he can be scum is:
- if Empking put a Scum 'Mason Recruiter' and Town Mason in the game, which I will hate him for.
- him and Jason are scum and this was planned from the beginning.

In either of these cases, we're boned anyway because I'm less likely to want to vote Kdub here. I've had a townread on Kdub, and I don't see scum-Kdub lying and risking being scrutinized today. He also can't be scum with Jason being town, because that involves telling scum there's a mason in the game, among other stupid reasons. Kdub dropped hints of knowing Jason's alignment day 1, so the only logical way he can be scum is if this was a front. Unlikely.

So FMPOV, that leaves Who and Stubbs, of course.

Now, since Toomai flipped town, this means scum either have a roleblocker or something like a redirector. I want to think the former is more likely/common.

Redirector would explain the Who scenario, but if Who was telling the truth, that leaves Stubbs and I as scum. Which I slightly disagree with. Also, I'm going to point out that since it's pretty much confirmed scum have a way of messing with town actions, there's no way to confirm/break the setup with the claimed PRs unless we hit the roleblocker/redirector today. Even in that case, Kdub is most likely dying tonight.

I think Stubbs is more likely to be the roleblocker/redirector than Who. Who has been more in the forefront whilst Stubbs has been lurky, which is more likely to come from the more important scum role. So he's still the best lynch today. However, there's a problem. If Who is scum, then scum have an extra kill, which seems... overpowered. A roleblock/misdirect and extra shot, where town has three or more bullets... This is the part messing with me the most, because there's no other role-based explanation for the Generic kill. Who could be an SK after all, but two scum and a SK, with one scum being a Traitor? That doesn't fit either. Three scum plus SK plus 3+ town bullets in a mini is also silly. So that theory's out the window. This brings me back to, "why would Who claim he wanted to be a SK as scum?", too. ARGH.

I honestly have townreads on 3/4 of the other players in LYLO. That's a bit of an issue. I'm going to need some time to work through this. We should lynch Stubbs, but take our time to figure everything else out.

Something of note: Stubbs said he had a townread on Jason D1 and said nothing about changing that read. Then tracked him n2?

[Architect of Thought]

I may be repeating myself here, sorry. Trying to write things out to see if anything sticks out to me or someone else.

Kdub can't be scum with townJason. Jason also can't be scum with Kdub being town, because again, that involves telling scum there's a mason or mason-like role, which seems... off. Also I'm assuming because they're both masons, they got confirmation the other is town.

Both of them claiming they picked "Mason" and "Mason Recruiter", on their own accord, honestly worries me.

So they're either both town or both scum. For sure. Let's assume town.

If they're both town, this leaves Who/me/Stubbs. Who has bullets. He claims he was redirected...

If Who is scum and they can kill twice and we lynch Stubbs (or me, objectively) today, we still lose.
If Who is town and we lynch Stubbs today, we'd both have to be scum for it to successfully go to night. Then Who shoots me, I'm guessing.
If Who is town and we lynch me today, we lose.
If Who is an SK and we lynch me today, goes to night with 1 scum/SK/2 town. It all depends on the NKs from there.
If Who is an SK (or scum role that can kill twice unless he's the last scum alive) and we lynch Stubbs today, goes to night with 3 town+SK. We can break the setup here.
If Who is an SK or scum and we lynch him today, it's me/Stubbs/Jason LYLO?

Who has to be an SK, or scum with an extra kill (what.), there's no other way to explain this. The bad part about this is that the setup seems unbalanced. Town Dayvig, Vig, Dat-JoaT, Scum Roleblock, Traitor, SK. I guess with a 2-shot BP and making the SK bulletproof, it's more balanced, but still...

I'm leaning more towards SK. Which I don't want to make sense, because I don't get why SK would claim he wanted SK... that part bugs me, too.

Who claimed he was redirected. Kdub is still alive. I think scum have a roleblock. Makes more sense to kill Kdub if they have a redirect, rather than risk something coming up, since Kdub was kind of vague in his claim yesterday. Roleblocking him and leaving him alive seems okay. Still worries me, though.

We have two choices today:
- lynch Stubbs, the probable roleblocker/redirector,

and break the setup

* and deal with a me/Who/Kdub lylo.
- lynch Who, guaranteeing one kill tonight, and deal with a me/Stubbs/[Jason/Kdub] lylo.

*I thought we could break the setup if we lynched the roleblocker/redirector. Have Kdub target me and Jason post some sort of codeword or phrase in the QT tonight. But if Kdub can't read the QT, this is kind of useless, because there's no way to prove anything if Jason dies tonight. Which is what will probably happen in this scenario.

That's all I got, sorry if it seems a bit scattered. But when there's two scum/anti-town alive and you're looking at things from my POV, it's kind of confusing.

[JasonWazza]

I had thought I might have been roleblocked, but after hearing Who's claim, I suspect there is some sort of scum redirection/bus-driving role, and I could possibly have been redirected to scum on N1. That would explain Who's kill attempt on Jason going in some other direction on N2.

The 2 are not related trust me.

[Kdub]

Uh, OK.

Jason, what are your thoughts on Who/Architect/Stubbs today?

Who as an actual SK does make some sense here, but that would mean either there were only two mafia to start (with one of them a traitor), or it's now 2/2/1, in which we have to lynch mafia and then hope for a crosskill. If we could somehow be sure that there is only one mafia left, I'd probably advocate a Who lynch just to be safe, even though I don't think he's as likely to be scum as Stubbs/Architect. I'm not sure we can assume that though.

Stubbs picking tracker strikes me as a strange decision, if true. You get to pick any role you want, and you go with a weakish investigative role rather than cop/watcher/role cop/sensor/etc? I wouldn't have expected anyone to pick doc or roleblocker either for the same reason. Odd claim for sure.

[JasonWazza]

JasonWazza - Conf town
Kdub - Conf Town
Who - NK-Immune Miller Vig - possible SK
StubbsKVM - Tracker - Probably scum
Architect of Thought - Vanilla - Probably Scum

I can believe that Who is an SK but here's the thing, we are in a situation where letting him live isn't bad.

We lynch Stubbs/AoT
Who kills the other.

Most likely scum trys to kill me, as i may have held back something from my claim.

I am a 1-shot Cop/Mason, i chose not to use my cop shot, as it was of no benefit to me to do so with so many kills flying around.

Now the only way this doesn't work in out advantage, is if Who is in fact a SK, and the Mafia manage to line kills with him enough that they kill me and SK/Mafia.

So Kdub, who do you want to lynch to end this game?

[Who]

Kdub and Jason are confirmed by each other, they could hypothetically be scumpartners but they have been acting like a mason pair since d1 and if they are scumpartners then it would have been very risky, especially with all the vigs flying around. Thus it's Architect and Stubbs by POE. Also they both had rather convenient claims, though Stubbs' was more convenient than Architect. I think we should lynch Stubbs then if it isn't it must be Kdub and Jason and I can kill one of them tonight, if Stubbs does flip scum then it's him and Architect and I can kill Architect tonight.

Any objections to lynching Stubbs or shall we proceed?

[Kdub]

If Who is an SK and Stubbs+Architect are scum, then we lynch Stubbs or Architect and hope for crosskills.
If Who is an SK and only one of Stubbs/Architect are scum, then it doesn't matter if we lynch Who today or tomorrow, we will still have to decide between Stubbs/Architect at some point. We can actually still mislynch here and win if we get crosskills.
If Who is town and Stubbs+Architect are scum, then we lynch one of them today and have Who kill the other.
If Who is town and only one of Stubbs/Architect are scum, then same deal.

I think that covers the main scenarios from my POV. Objectively, I think Stubbs is scummier than Architect due to his claim, but I'm mostly meh on both of them based on their play. Going to reread some, but I think Stubbs is probably the way to go today.

[JasonWazza]

Kdub and Jason are confirmed by each other, they could hypothetically be scumpartners but they have been acting like a mason pair since d1 and if they are scumpartners then it would have been very risky, especially with all the vigs flying around. Thus it's Architect and Stubbs by POE. Also they both had rather convenient claims, though Stubbs' was more convenient than Architect. I think we should lynch Stubbs then if it isn't it must be Kdub and Jason and I can kill one of them tonight, if Stubbs does flip scum then it's him and Architect and I can kill Architect tonight.

Any objections to lynching Stubbs or shall we proceed?

No, in no case does Me and Kdub become a scum team because one of {Architect, Stubbs} flip town, regardless you shoot the other one of them, even as an SK that's your only hope.

[Kdub]

Yeah, Stubbs is the play today. As unlikely as one remaining mafia is, Stubbs clearly looks worse than Architect based on his claim and the fact that upon rereading, his contribution has been less than even what I had given him credit for in my mind.

Who, if you are town, you kill Architect tonight, no matter what Stubbs flips.

VOTE: Stubbs

[JasonWazza]

VOTE: Stubbs

[StubbsKVM]

JasonWazza - Conf town
Kdub - Conf Town
Who - NK-Immune Miller Vig - possible SK
StubbsKVM - Tracker - Probably scum
Architect of Thought - Vanilla - Probably Scum

I can believe that Who is an SK but here's the thing, we are in a situation where letting him live isn't bad.

We lynch Stubbs/AoT
Who kills the other.

Most likely scum trys to kill me, as i may have held back something from my claim.

I am a 1-shot Cop/Mason, i chose not to use my cop shot, as it was of no benefit to me to do so with so many kills flying around.

Now the only way this doesn't work in out advantage, is if Who is in fact a SK, and the Mafia manage to line kills with him enough that they kill me and SK/Mafia.

So Kdub, who do you want to lynch to end this game?

This does not make sense. If there are a lot of kills, what makes you think you'll be surviving so long?

[JasonWazza]

I didn't think i was kill worthy, plus it's safer to save the cop for when it becomes game winning.

[Architect of Thought]

vote: Stubbs

[StubbsKVM]

Hurray. Another mislynch. *claps*

[Empking]

vote count apple

StubbsKVM (3) - Kdub, JasonWazza, Architect of Thought

Not Voting: Who, StubbsKVM

three to lynch
(expired on 2013-09-23 03:59:45)

[Empking]

"Great another mislynch." Exclaimed StubbsKVM as the noose tightened around his neck.
"The final mislynch." Said Who.
"Who said that?" Went Kdub.
"Indeed I did." Everyone laughed; apart from StubbsKVM who by this time was dead.
"Who, you celebrating our misfortune." Said Jason, "Oh, not wonder Architect of Thought hammered without a word."
"What, no!" Said the good Architect, "I was just so overjoyed at the thought of lynching scum that I couldn't speak. It is you and Kdub who are the scum."
"No!" Retorted JasonWazza, "It is you and - who else? - Who."

Who was right; it was the final misylnch, but Who was the scum. Who with? Kdub.

StubbsKVM was lynched Day Three. He was a Town Tracker.

Who, Mafia Night Kill Immune Miller Vig, and Kdub, Mafia Mason Recruitor, won! (as did TheIrishPope.
Architect of Thought, Vanillqa Townie, and JasonWazza, Mason Nexus were endgamed.

[Empking]

JasonWazza:

You are a Town Nexus Mason.

Any night action that would target you shall instead target a different randomly decided player. You also have a Mason QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/hY7TdtxrErq
You are currently alone and Kdub is responsible for adding new members.

You win if only town is left in the game.

Kdub:

You are a Mafia Mason Recruitor.

You may not post in the Mason Quicktopic, but are responsible for recruiting a player into it night. If you target Mafia your night action shall fail. JasonWazza is currently in the Mason QT and is aware that you are his Mason Recruitor.

As Mafia you have the faction kill which you share with Who, who you also share the following QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/A76sZ2PWF8E
You may not use both your recruit and personally kill at the same time.

TIP:

You are a Mafia Night-Kill Immune Traitor.

You cannot be killed during the night. You do not know who your partners are. If both your partners die you will be given access to the Quicktopic, and will also be able to use the Mafia Night Kill.

You win if only the Mafia are alive.

Guyett:

You are a Town Vigilante.

Each night you may target a player and attempt to kill them.

You win when Mafia are eliminated.

The Purple Shoe:

You are a Town Day Vigilante.

Each Day you may PM me a player you would wish to kill. You shall then attempt to kill them. This kill can cause a lynch if it causes the required votes to lynch to change.

You win if Mafia are eliminated.

Generic:

You are a Town Jack of All Trades

Each day you may PM to use one of the following abilities (1 x lynchproof day, 1 x day vig shot, 1 x double vote day, 1 x silence a player for the day).

You win if only town are left in the game.

Toomai:

You are a 2-shot Bulletproof Townie.

If you are shot then you shall not die. This can only save you twice, and each time it saves you you will be informed of it.

You win if only town are left alive.

StubbsKVM:

You are a Town Tracker.

Each night you may attempt to target a player and learn you they targeted, if any. If Roleblocked you shall receive 'no result' if you target failed to target then you shall get 'no target'.

You win if only town are left.

VT:
You are a Vanilla Townie.

You win when the Mafia have been eliminated.

Actions:
D1:
The Purple Shoe killed The Irish Pope
Generic killed Guyett

N1:
StubbsKVM targeted Generic (who went nowhere)
Scum killed Generic and Pyrotechnics

D2:
The Purple Shoe killed Baldeagle

N2:
StubbsKVM targetted JasonWazza
Scum targeted JasonWazza (deflected to dopog) and The Purple Shoe.

[Guyett]

Well that's shite. Fucking Generic

[TheIrishPope]

Yaaaaaaay I love my scumpartners
Great game everyone
I didn't know who my partners where
Purple Shoe can you tell me who you are pls
You can even PM me

[1baldeagle1]

Hmm, oh well. Good game.

[Who]

Good game.
Kdub, you are a very good partner.

[Tammy]

GG scum.

Our read on kdub was so schizophrenic. The night Syry was talking with Kdub, he left me a message that said "kdub is scum definitely". But then the next day when I asked about it, he was nah, he's town. And I was like erm, but did you see the way he let you talk him into a dopog scum read, that was really scummy. We dropped it, and then thought he was scum again later that day then didn't push it. Then in the qt I thought he might be masons with Jason.

Thanks for running it empking. It was fun playing with you all!

[Kdub]

GG, interesting setup. I thought I was being clever by picking a role that had to be town, but Empking figured out a way to get around that. Having two NKs probably made this a bit scum-sided, but swingy. I suspected a lot of people probably asked for vig roles, so it was going to come down to dodging all those shots. I'm a bit surprised that nobody asked for day-cop or some powerful investigative role (I guess I sort of did, but I wasn't town anyway).

Empking, I still hate the way you handle traitors

Due to RL obligations, this will probably be the last game I play on this site for a while. I'll still be around to review setups, talk in MD a bit, and mod the occasional game, but I'm glad to go out with a win.

(BTW, you should all sign up for my Gundam SEED game, I need to fill it soon!)

[StubbsKVM]

well played.