~~Mini 1216: S.M.H. (A.S.N.P.T.) Mafia GAME OVER!!! WOOO~~

[Empking]

and

vote: jamftw

i hope you guys see now how an early massclaim had the potential to neuter us.

I don't.

[don_johnson]

lol. of course you don't. both investigative roles are double weak(odd/even and not cop). scum would have had a road map to victory. i don't see any way that jam is town here, which means he's either a jk or a rb. early mass claim lets scum block the active power role and kill the protective twice in a row. its basic math i think. but whatevz. live in your bubble. serious question: how old are you?

[don_johnson]

Ah! My apologies. This is what happens when I get too little sleep. Well, I am VT. Anyone else ready to claim?

emp: vt
chris: vt
dj: nurse
lurc: doc
cap: even night track
jam: scum

i think thats it. unless someone wants to change their claim?

[Empking]

lol. of course you don't. both investigative roles are double weak(odd/even and not cop). scum would have had a road map to victory. i don't see any way that jam is town here, which means he's either a jk or a rb. early mass claim lets scum block the active power role and kill the protective twice in a row. its basic math i think. but whatevz. live in your bubble. serious question: how old are you?

Pretend we lynched you instead of Ben yesterday. We would have lost last night in that case. Yes in this particular situation we got lucky and lynched a scumbag. You can't call your way better just because of the base case situation.

If we mass claimed yesterday and presuming everyone claimed the same thing then we'd've lynched the roleblocker yesterday (rather than today) and then be in the same situation we're in now just swapping a goon for the obvious RB. You honestly don't think that's better? Really?

[don_johnson]

Pretend we lynched you instead of Ben yesterday. We would have lost last night in that case. Yes in this particular situation we got lucky and lynched a scumbag. You can't call your way better just because of the base case situation.

i spearheaded a case against scum and prevented what could have been a disastrous mass claim, thus placing us in a no lose scenario today. i feel justified in call ing my way better.

If we mass claimed yesterday and presuming everyone claimed the same thing then we'd've lynched the roleblocker yesterday (rather than today) and then be in the same situation we're in now just swapping a goon for the obvious RB. You honestly don't think that's better? Really?

?? today is not yesterday. no guarantee scum would have claimed the same role at that stage(not mylo/lylo). vig shot would most likely not have occurred, and doc would be dead, leaving nurse exposed to be killed and tracker exposed to be blocked tonight. so yes, i honestly think my play is better than yours. if you're town, which is not guaranteed. you've done nothing this game but defend flipped scum, random vote on day 3, vote to lynch someone who was not your top scumread to avoid voting flipped scum, and advocate massclaim when it was unnecessary, then vote a claimed pr in mylo before a massclaim while attempting to discredit it based on a flip which actually bolstered it while also attempting to discuss a no lynch. that about right? so yeah, the case against you is pretty damn good. the case against chris has some elements of scum defense, but rests more on PoE because the final scum is one of the two of you. you are playing in a bubble, but you can't win as scum. so whatevz...

[Empking]

Let's see an example.

Starting from yesterday.

Jam is lynched.
Doc killed.
Hellhound killed.

Benmage lynched.
Tracker tracks.
You're killed.

We lynch scum.

Basically 100% victory if we had mass claimed yesterday. That's disastorous to you?

Not massclaiming yesterday only gives us odds of winning equal to the odds of not lynching you yesterday.

My way is better.

[don_johnson]

only in a vaccuum. we're in the real world. jam lynch yesterday is not guaranteed, nor is his claim. benmage lynch is also not guaranteed. but if you want to go on thinking that way i don't have an issue with it. pretty much anyone can say "well if everything happened perfectly, then my plan would have worked 100%." i bow to your incredible wisdom.

[Empking]

only in a vaccuum. we're in the real world. jam lynch yesterday is not guaranteed, nor is his claim. benmage lynch is also not guaranteed. but if you want to go on thinking that way i don't have an issue with it. pretty much anyone can say "well if everything happened perfectly, then my plan would have worked 100%." i bow to your incredible wisdom.

Oh please.

I'm presuming
1. JAM claimsd the same thing both days. This is the only valid assumption to make unless Jam says otherwise.
2. That the odds of lynching Ben are 1-[odds of lynching you]
3. That after knowing all the roles the odds of lynching you are around 0.

ASll of them are the only presumptions you can make.

Do you disagree that we would be in a terrible position/already lost if we had lynched you yesterday?

[Captain Haoala]

JAM, who did you JK for the past nights?

[Lurconis]

I feel y'all are right about jam scum but I would like bith ch and him to post their results before we hammer

-phone

[Captain Haoala]

Doctor protected ch n1 and jam n2 and 3

I'm assuming that's us and not Christine..

Why did you protect JAM?

[Captain Haoala]

set-up is as i imagined.

What exactly did you imagine?

[Captain Haoala]

And I see you are online JAM.

[JAMFTW]

@Haoala:

Yes, I am online. I've been going back through the thread and I have to say I'm not too sure who the remaining scum could be. Everyone's been adding content recently to keep the game moving forward. And as to the bit you quoted as my overreaction, I was expressing dismay over the fact that we wound up with two more townies down, whether the NK on HH was justified or not (assuming lew is the one that killed HH. Not sure what other types of possibilities there could be, given that we were on an odd night and all). If you want to read that as an overreaction, knock yourself out (which you have done. The reading bit, not the knocking yourself out bit).

As far as who I've been tossing into jail:

I tossed in gaylord night one. The quickhammer had me thinking scum with a possible power role.

As for nights two and three, Haoala, I tossed you in. For most of the game, you've been one of my strongest town reads, and my tossing you in was an attempt to keep you from getting NKed. Though with you claiming even night Tracker, I should just let you do your thing and toss someone else in. Assuming I make it through the Day, of course. Which currently looks unlikely.

[don_johnson]

emp: i disagree with (1) and (2). the ben lynch went through due to the persistence of the minority who worked to sway the majority. it was not inevitable in any form. and yes, lynching me would have been a terrible play which is why i found my wagon scummy as all get out.

cap: going into night i assumed we had something like doc/cop/nurse, but seeing the flip i imagined the set-up with an opposite night watcher/tracker type role. an outright cop in addittion to odd night vig would have been a bit overpowered imo. in answer to emp's earlier question i was going to post:

doc, nurse, odd night vig, even night tracker/watcher, roleblock/rolecop, gf/goon, goon. i have seen plenty of gf roles in games without cops, as they are often used to merely alert scum to investigative roles(i.e. gf generally stays home at night). in any case, the set-up is near exact to what i imagined. i was slightly worried about my role being a red herring, but like i said before, both other times i have seen it was with a doc in set-up.

[don_johnson]

Assuming I make it through the Day, of course. Which currently looks unlikely.

lolz. if you are town then not making it through the day would be gg. you may need to go back to the noob forums.

[Captain Haoala]

We tracked Benmage N2 and got no result. Consistent with JAM's story. Doesn't prove he's town though. Could very well be a scum JK/RB.

If all claims are believable, the PRs in this game are:
- Odd-night vig
- Even-night tracker
- Doc
- Nurse
- JK

Sounds OP for town.

Lurc protect me tonight, I track player X, I either confirm him as town/scum, and we figure the rest out tmr.

[Captain Haoala]

Assuming I make it through the Day, of course. Which currently looks unlikely.

lolz. if you are town then not making it through the day would be gg. you may need to go back to the noob forums.

Ahahahaha scumslip. Not hammering yet, cos would like more discussion. DJ I suggest you unvote to prevent a self-hammer.

[Empking]

Ch: Don't target Don.

Don: OK, what is reasonable to think Jam would claim?
And other than you and Ben who else was up for the chop?

[Captain Haoala]

I'd appreciate if you could at least type "CH" in caps or call us by our full name. I keep thinking you're referring to Christine, and I'm like, who's she targetting?!?

Will discuss with CC who we're targeting and announce it here.

[don_johnson]

unvote

i thought it was L-2?

emp: even night-something or doc. if its mylo, a 1 v 1 benefits scum. other than me or ben? hound comes to mind. you. christine. cap. mafia is not a static game. you seem to be implying the ben lynch was somehow inevitable here? townie persistence made it happen. my wagon only took off because scum was pushing it. you yourself stated you were "lynching at random". so stating that certain lynches were above others is only true towards the end of the day and post flip. this game could have gone much differently if we hadn't done things the way we did.

cap: i see no reason to announce your target.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Wait a second...My vote count is missing...
Who took it?

EDIT: It looks like I edited the last vote count of D3 >___>

VOTECOUNT 4.1

With 6 players alive, it takes 3 to lynch!

JAMFTW

(1):

Empking,

Yet to vote

(5):

Christine, JAMFTW, Captain Haoala, don_johnson, Lurconis,

[Captain Haoala]

I see no reason not to. In fact, I wouldn't mind discussing with all of you (except JAM) who you'd like us to target tonight.

[haoala]

Mod, Lurc unvoted

[Captain Haoala]

Mod, Lurc unvoted