Mini 1096 - Seinfeld Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #600 (ISO) » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:31 am

Post by Haschel Cedricson »

Jahudo wrote:Wel MacLock knew Magna was Joe Davola. Either he's scum or the scum also have a flavor expert who figured out Magna's breadcrumbs. Either way HC could have known he was in a position where the only one who could counter-claim him was the one ranting about not wanting to massclaim today.
The only relevant breadcrumb Magna made was capitalizing the word Crazy in his second post of the game. Are you seriously arguing that TWO players noticed that and drew the correct conclusion? Also, there was a general consensus that your attitude towards massclaim was wrong but not scummy.

Anyhoo, I see we're voting now.

Vote: Jahudo
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Post Post #601 (ISO) » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:33 am

Post by Untrod Tripod »

MagnaofIllusion wrote: 1. He’s a Town Tracker.
2. He’s a Scum Tracker
3. He’s not a Tracker but made a very good bluff.
4. He’s not a Tracker but you are scum together so he knew it was safe to claim.
1. I find it likely
2. How possibru is a scum tracker? I suppose it's somewhat possibru, but him being scum means that
> a. have both a scum tracker and a town tracker
> b. have HC and Jahudo as scum together
3. Extremely unlikely
4. No.

I guess if he's a scum tracker it means that HC might not be lying? Or HC and Jahudo are scum together. I can see a lot more scenarios where HC is the correct lynch than I can see Jahudo being the correct lynch. But the issue is that it's still quite possible that Jahudo is scum. I'll have to think about it more. That makes my head hurt
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Post Post #602 (ISO) » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:38 am

Post by The Fonz »

MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Fonz wrote:In my experience, when a claim revolves around a dead or scum roleblocker happening to have conveniently roleblocked a specific person on a given day, it's usually a lie. Actually, this is kinda important. Magna, when did you put in your watch on D1?
I’m not sure where you are going here but I thought I was clear about this when I posted my claim –
MoI at 540 wrote:I sent in my choice in the immediately upon getting my role PM so it was active all Day long.
So you did. Haschel, please tell me at precisely what point you attempted to investigate LynchMePls.
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Post Post #603 (ISO) » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:46 am

Post by Haschel Cedricson »

About four minutes after I made this post.
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Post Post #604 (ISO) » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:48 am

Post by Haschel Cedricson »

EBWOP:
Untrod Tripod wrote:2. How possibru is a scum tracker? I suppose it's somewhat possibru, but him being scum means that
> a. have both a scum tracker and a town tracker
What? No. I am not a tracker, I'm a weak cop.

Do you honestly think that the town got four confirmable powerroles and the scum got none?
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Post Post #605 (ISO) » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:21 am

Post by The Fonz »

Haschel Cedricson wrote:About four minutes after I made this post.
Meh. OK. I was kind of thinking that to work, the scum roleblock would have to be submitted before the action it's blocking. Thinking about it, it's probably more likely that it prevents investigative results even when the investigation is submitted before the roleblock, provided the action that would be seen happens after the block.

So it's perfectly possible scum saw the Crazy Joe crumb, and immediately roleblocked MOI.
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Post Post #606 (ISO) » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:07 am

Post by Kdub »

ELAINE: Just tell him that you're my boyfriend and that we're in love, okay? Can you do that?
KRAMER: Yeah, yeah, okay. I'm your boyfriend. Have we been intimate?
ELAINE: Yeah, yeah, we've been intimate.
KRAMER: How often do we do it?
ELAINE: Kramer, how is that important? Honestly, do you really think he's gonna ask you that?
KRAMER: Elaine, he's a psychiatrist. They're interested in stuff like that.
ELAINE: Alright, alright. We do it, uh, five times a week, okay?
KRAMER: Oooh, baby.


Vote Count

charter (0) -
The Fonz (0) -
MagnaofIllusion (0) -
Jahudo (2) - Kmd4390, Haschel Cedricson
Haschel Cedricson (1) - Jahudo
Talitha (0) -
Untrod Tripod (0) - The Fonz
Kmd4390 (0) -
MacavityLock (0) -
Not Voting (5) - charter, MagnaofIllusion, Talitha, Untrod Tripod, MacavityLock

8 votes available, 5 votes needed to lynch.
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Post Post #607 (ISO) » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:23 pm

Post by Talitha »

I'm still inclined to vote Jahudo, but I need to mull it a bit more. Need to decide if i believe MoI's claim and think through what that means about Haschel.
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Post Post #608 (ISO) » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:32 pm

Post by Jahudo »

Maybe I misunderstood UT's claim but why can't he use his double vote tomorrow if we lynch town today? Wouldn't it be 4 town votes, 4 scum votes, and 1 new vote that goes to either town or scum? Wouldn't the lynch threshold be 5 again?
MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Jahudo wrote:KMD has outed himself as lazy scum coasting for an easy win. He's played this way the whole game. If
we lynch HC today and if flips town
, KMD is the most obvious buddy. Not even pretending to consider situations.
Emphasis added. I’d like you to explain exactly what you are intending to say here.
If we lynch HC today and if
he
flips
scum
, ...

I still say "IF" because I've been in too many games where town fakeclaim (I've done it too) so maybe scum are just laughing their asses off at this point.

The typo between town and scum is probably a result of me talking in too many hypothetical scenarios lately. "If he is scum, if he isn't town, he wouldn't as town, he would as scum, etc etc." I also typed that post out fast and didn't spellcheck it.
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Post Post #609 (ISO) » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:12 am

Post by The Fonz »

Yeah, that was fairly obvious.

On the UT subject, not unless we lynch the roleblocker today. And possibly not even then, depending on how the scum WC is worded.
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Post Post #610 (ISO) » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:41 pm

Post by Talitha »

OK, I don't think "if he flips scum" and "possible town fakeclaim" are a very likely town thought process in this situation. You're in endgame and someone else claims your role in mass- claim... and you think there's still a chance they could be town?

Why I have been reluctant to make a decision is because looking at Magna's claim I wondered if it could be a ploy to initially bus Haschel & clear Magna. Then - when the wagon didn't get rolling - to pretend he was being blocked, to clear Haschel. But I'm going to go with that theory being just too convoluted. I hope so, anyway.

vote: Jahudo
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Post Post #611 (ISO) » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:58 pm

Post by charter »

I think I need to go with a
Vote Haschel
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Post Post #612 (ISO) » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:01 pm

Post by Jahudo »

Talitha wrote:OK, I don't think "if he flips scum" and "possible town fakeclaim" are a very likely town thought process in this situation. You're in endgame and someone else claims your role in mass- claim... and you think there's still a chance they could be town?
Its happened in at least three of my games here, so yes I'm always thinking about it with a claim.
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Post Post #613 (ISO) » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:22 pm

Post by Jahudo »

Talitha, I can't tell if you are really looking at all the evidence here or not. How important is Magna's claim in this really?

- Have you even heard of HC's role power before? A cop that can only find 1 member of a mafia? I haven't. Its unique. The rest of the claimed powers in this game are more common (neighborizer, vote manipulator, watcher, tracker). It doesn't fit thematically.

- Who has HC down as a town read? What has he done this game that is pro-town? Where was his scumhunting? It was very under the radar, votes on popular wagons without much reasoning. No questioning. Few reads given. Will someone in this game talk about this? Can someone argue how he looks more pro-town than me without talking about the claim?

- How can you argue that one opinion from UT, without waiting to hear from the group in general, would cause me as hypo-scum to fake counter-claim? Why would I want to put myself in a 1 on 1 situation when I could claim tracker and some other character?

- Why does my role power usage give any doubt to my claim? BV was a lurker so its not a surprise he didn't use the power then, and besides as scum I could have easily lied and said I used the power both day 1 and day 3. If I had another chance I would have saved my day 4 tracker, but at the time I wasn't expecting that I needed to prove my power in order to prove my alignment. I was under no pressure and only thought about finding scum, not creating some safety net for myself.
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Post Post #614 (ISO) » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:45 pm

Post by Talitha »

Talitha, I can't tell if you are really looking at all the evidence here or not. How important is Magna's claim in this really?
The fact that his claimed role is seemingly useless was bugging me a little, so I wanted to think through possible ulterior motives. I'm tending to believe him though, and if he's truthful there's no real info about either of you in it.
Have you even heard of HC's role power before? A cop that can only find 1 member of a mafia? I haven't. Its unique. The rest of the claimed powers in this game are more common (neighborizer, vote manipulator, watcher, tracker). It doesn't fit thematically.
I'm used to oddball roles in theme games but not sure if I've seen this exact role before. I've definitely seen the opposite (a scum role that finds a particular townie). I think Haschel's claim fits thematically very well - the dislike between Newman & Jerry was a recurring part of the show and made a bigger impression on me than Newman being mailman did.
Who has HC down as a town read? What has he done this game that is pro-town? Where was his scumhunting? It was very under the radar, votes on popular wagons without much reasoning. No questioning. Few reads given. Will someone in this game talk about this? Can someone argue how he looks more pro-town than me without talking about the claim?
It's a fair point but it's also a large part of the reason why you counterclaiming as scum makes so much sense, and Hasch fake-claiming to draw a counterclaim makes so little sense.
How can you argue that one opinion from UT, without waiting to hear from the group in general, would cause me as hypo-scum to fake counter-claim? Why would I want to put myself in a 1 on 1 situation when I could claim tracker and some other character?
My guess is you were worried that UT might change his mind about voting for Haschel on the basis of Haschel claiming such a major character as Newman. I mean, in spite of him being a possible scum safe-claim, I really expected Newman to be in the game. He made the show, IMO.
Why does my role power usage give any doubt to my claim? BV was a lurker so its not a surprise he didn't use the power then, and besides as scum I could have easily lied and said I used the power both day 1 and day 3. If I had another chance I would have saved my day 4 tracker, but at the time I wasn't expecting that I needed to prove my power in order to prove my alignment. I was under no pressure and only thought about finding scum, not creating some safety net for myself.
I accept you could've lied about all of your results and it would have looked better, except that lying would have been a risk if (and only if) you considered you had a possible town power role claiming after you. Each lie would've multiplied the risk, so the fewer results you claimed, the better. And I mostly just don't believe your explanation about day 3.
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Post Post #615 (ISO) » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:53 am

Post by charter »

I've been a cop that could only find one member of the mafia before.
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Post Post #616 (ISO) » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:42 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

I think I’ve mulled over my thoughts on Jahudo and Haschel enough. Time to make my vote.

Thoughts on the claims themselves – both flavor and role:


From a flavor standpoint both seem to fit well. Newman being Jerry’s ‘nemesis’ is an intregal part of his character. Newman also being a Mailman is also very often referenced in the series and is the basis for several episodes plot points.

From a role standpoint, on the other hand, I find Haschel’s claim to be overall more convincing than Jahudo.

Haschel is a Cop that can only find 1 of 4 scum. I can see the limited Town usefulness of that role.

Jahudo is a Tracker who basically is a limited PR cop. Given we have VERY limited Scum theorized PRs (Roleblocker) and no Nightkills I don’t see the usefulness of his role to Town at all. It would, however, be a useful Scum PR hunting tool.

Thoughts on the timing of the claims –


The following is all presented from my perspective, so attacking it on the basis that no-one else knows I am Town will not be useful in convincing me I’m incorrect.

I don’t relastically see Haschel making a fake-Newman as Cop claim in the position he did. Even if scum did know I was Crazy Joe and thus only had one other player (Jahudo) who could counterclaim I don’t see much motivation to try to bolster a limited Cop fake-claim by tacking on a fake-name claim. From my perspective Scum have some access to fake-claims and going of personal experience working with Kdub as a Co-Mod I don’t think Kdub would hang them out to dry with less fake-claims than there are scum.

Had he wanted to make a fake-cop claim for Town cred he would have had plenty of time to concoct a Cop claim around whatever fake-claim he had (not hard in the Seinfeld Universe, IMO).

I also don’t see any scum motivation in trying to set himself up in a potential 1 versus 1. Scum would be better served keeping the lynch pool as wide a possible.

Jahudo’s claim on the other hand has all the hallmarks of a gambit to win the game. I’ve already provide the link to Harry Potter Mafia where I did a very similar gambit as scum. Also examine the manner in which he attacks Haschel’s claim in his ISO 24. I don’t see that as Town oriented.

Thoughts on their other play –


Haschel is playing as I‘ve seen him do before as Town. That’s Null for me. He certainly could be coasting Town or coasting scum.

Jahudo on the other hand has taken stances that I don’t see as reasonable from a Town perspective. He modded the first game I ever played here on MS so I know he’s very sharp, but overal his play don’t align with that in my eyes.

In the end I can’t see myself not voting for Jahudo based on all the above.

VOTE: Jahudo
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Post Post #617 (ISO) » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:59 am

Post by MacavityLock »

Sorry, been busy with Super Bowl and such. Will be posting here with content soon.
Yes, my fake claim is Innocent Aligned with the Town win condition as per the mod's first post.
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Post Post #618 (ISO) » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:18 am

Post by Jahudo »

MagnaofIllusion wrote:Jahudo on the other hand has taken stances that I don’t see as reasonable from a Town perspective.
Name 1 besides my opposition to massclaim.
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Post Post #619 (ISO) » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:01 am

Post by Kdub »

Vote Count

charter (0) -
The Fonz (0) -
MagnaofIllusion (0) -
Jahudo (4) - Kmd4390, Haschel Cedricson, Talitha, MagnaofIllusion
Haschel Cedricson (2) - Jahudo, charter
Talitha (0) -
Untrod Tripod (0) - The Fonz
Kmd4390 (0) -
MacavityLock (0) -
Not Voting (2) - Untrod Tripod, MacavityLock

8 votes available, 5 votes needed to lynch.

Mass prod will go out tonight to eligible players.
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Post Post #620 (ISO) » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:19 am

Post by Jahudo »

MacavityLock, what do you think about the overall play of HC, bv and myself this game? Do you know how HC normally plays, or do you think his level of content and scumhunting is an issue? Do you have any concern over how bv got replaced, like it is more or less likely to be tied to his alignment?
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Post Post #621 (ISO) » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:19 pm

Post by charter »

Think it's time to
unvote, vote Jahudo
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Post Post #622 (ISO) » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:20 pm

Post by Untrod Tripod »

We just lost the game didn't we
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Post Post #623 (ISO) » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:23 pm

Post by Jahudo »

You can use your double vote today right? So Mac would be the tiebreaker at this point.
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Post Post #624 (ISO) » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:24 pm

Post by Untrod Tripod »

vote HC
if I can

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