Newbie 580 - Game Over!

[curiouskarmadog]

going to reread...

[Muerrto]

Hm...Well that night kill sucked since Td's main suspect was....BaB =p

Don't like Kitten jumping on BaB as soon as she came in even though Cerebus3 thought BaB was innocent. But then again Kitten seems kind of inexperienced so not sure how much we can get out of that.

Not seeing BaB's case on Sauce, but then again he had a case on almost everyone.

I'll have to re-read later tonight. 24 pages...

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post, except for a brief “Bah!”-type post.[/list]

Bah.

Let's discuss this game after it's over. I would especially like the ICs to comment on my gameplay.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Okay, kinda sucks. I'll try to reread day 1, but I don't know if it'll help much, because it's pretty much a very clogged day which'll make it difficult to filter out useful information.

With a deadline we unfortunately don't have the information of a hammer. I don't know how much help it'll be analyzing the votes on BaB, because there probably is one scum voting him, but I doubt both scum have been voting because it seems it wasn't really necessary with quite some people finding BaB's behavior scummy.

I was suspicious of pinkkitten, but mostly in combination with BaB. Have to see what kind of points pinkkitten brings up today.

I'm still of the same opinion on ckd. That the other side of this back and forth clogging discussion is town, doesn't really help him though.

Jimsauce has risen in my suspicion also. Mainly because leaving before the deadline. Have to reread BaB's case on him to see if it has merit.

RI. I still really think he is town. Calm, to the point. Not to get in a NK-WIFOM discussion, but I'd really thought he would be nightkilled tonight, because I felt he was generally considered as most townie.

Amor is also town in my view. Looking for scum, not too wishy washy.

As for Muerrto, I really don't know. His late day 1 behavior rubbed me the wrong way. Him saying 'not seeing BaB's case on JS' makes me feel he could be scumpartners with JS.

[Muerrto]

As for Muerrto, I really don't know. His late day 1 behavior rubbed me the wrong way. Him saying 'not seeing BaB's case on JS' makes me feel he could be scumpartners with JS.

Lol I'm insulted you think I'd make it that blatant.

I made it quite clear how much I thought of BaB's 'cases' on everyone, including YOU, CKD, Sauce, Me, Amor, Black, etc. In almost all his cases he was 100% sure he'd found the scum. Since we don't have 6 scum...

How is the case against Sauce any different?

[pinkkitten90]

Don't like Kitten jumping on BaB as soon as she came in even though Cerebus3 thought BaB was innocent. But then again Kitten seems kind of inexperienced so not sure how much we can get out of that.

er, it could also just be that i see things differantly you know mental differances and stimulations and all that jazz

[pinkkitten90]

I made it quite clear how much I thought of BaB's 'cases' on everyone, including YOU, CKD, Sauce, Me, Amor, Black, etc. In almost all his cases he was 100% sure he'd found the scum. Since we don't have 6 scum...

How is the case against Sauce any different?
_________________

so your telling me that at no point in any game you have played that you have not thought someone was scum 100% because of something that they have said and then changed that opinion because of either their own defensive argument or because of what someone else has said?

[Muerrto]

6 times?

[Amor]

Hm, this changes things considerably... at this point I think that CKD is looking the scummiest out of the surviving players, but I'm not particularly sure on him either. I don't like how he spent so much time arguing with BaB, while at the same time saying he was town... it seems like a way scum might attack someone while keeping their hands clean.

I'm thinking of doing a reread and post-by-post analysis for each player remaining, if I have time.

[pinkkitten90]

6 times?

yesturday did go for 23 pages. so susspisions could jump around and people do say stuff that could be scummy.

[curiouskarmadog]

post coming today...

[curiouskarmadog]

still rereading....today is going to be interesting in regards to who they attack next and how they defend their action yesterday.

[pinkkitten90]

Muerrto still hasn't answered my question.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

RI has been prodded and JimSauce is being replaced.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Great, another replacement...

I really wish the replacing player good luck with getting through day 1. But maybe a fresh look could do wonders, who knows.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Macavenger replaces JimSauce.

[Macavenger]

Hey guys, starting my read now. Should have something meaningful to post tonight or tomorrow.

[Muerrto]

Muerrto still hasn't answered my question.

Um...I thought it was rhetorical. It was a bad question.

Has my mind ever changed about who was scummy? Yes. Of course.

That many times with that much confidence I'm right? No.

[pinkkitten90]

I think it was a perfectly fine question.
now here another one. Have you played a game before that has gone on this long for only one day?

[Macavenger]

Eesh, that was a freaking monster read. To think I told VRK I slightly preferred taking this game over his other replacement slot because I thought this one might be a slightly easier read...

I'll confess that I haven't read the last few pages of Day 1 as carefully as I would have liked, but I'm pretty burnt out on reading this thread right now. I'll look over them again more carefully tomorrow.

Day 1 seems to have been pretty dominated by back and forth about BaB. Honestly, I think the entire wagon on him was crap - I suppose that's easy for me to say now that I know he's town, but I never got a strong scumvibe reading him. His newb flag waving yesterday was a bit excessive, but also in my opinion pretty justified; there was a very clear progression from his first few wild posts into thoughtful ones. Towards the end of the day I felt like he was trying to get as much analysis in as he could to help the town, and was getting attacked by scum and/or people just tunneling on him who'd prejudged him for his bad play early Day 1.

Unfortunately because of the deadline lynch, there isn't a proper wagon on BaB for me to analyze looking for scum. However, I feel like it's likely BaB was lynched by scum just hopping on and riding it to a deadline lynch. He was the easy lynch that no one was really willing to argue against - a great wagon for scum to hop on to try to avoid heat later. Also, as I've said, I never really felt like he was a good lynch in the first place, and some of the arguments against him seem fairly contrived to me.

I'm going to post a sketch of my thoughts so far about everyone here; I know there's been a debate about this in this game, and in general I agree that listing all players can be bad. However, I feel it's more important as a replacement to get my thoughts out to the town, and really there's only one person who sticks out as town to me anyway.

Top suspects:

Amor

I think is probably scum. His initial attack on BaB is a response to people thinking he has a scummy playstyle. For a while during the big CKD/BaB fight, he seems to be sitting on the fence, waiting to see which way town opinion is going to run. Could be waiting to jump on to the winning bandwagon. I feel his case against BaB was reaching at several points, trying to stretch things out as far scummier than they were. At one point he implies BaB is a good lynch even if he's town, which I don't like at all.

Muerrto

also strikes me as likely scum. He comes in swinging against the "easy target" BaB early on, and never really lets up. He uses at least a couple WIFOM arguments that he tries to justify as reasonable, but come off as very self serving. An argument against CKD and most of them against BaB seem really stretched. Every attempt BaB makes to get the town some useful analysis in the run up to his lynch is just more evidence that he's scum. Even today he still seems to be trying to discredit anything BaB ever said and make his vote look more reasonable than it was (which wasn't very).

Second Tier suspects:

CKD

replaces Boggzie, who was somewhat scummy. Some of his emotional play and personal attacks don't really sit right. I could also see his move away from attacking BaB as scum trying to distance from a townie lynch they think they've sold to the town. I find his overall play more townish than Amor and Muerrto, though.

PinkKitten

has seemed a bit unhelpful since replacing in, continuing a trend from her predecessor cerebus. Seems more interested in going off others thoughts than forming her own. cerebus also didn't scumhunt much and talked about theory more than I like, as well as having a couple attacks that struck me as pretty random. However, cerebus is one of the very few players on the site that I feel like I have much of a meta read on, and it suggests he was probably town here, despite behaviors I don't much care for. I'm going with that as my best read on kitten currently, but will continue watching.

WeyounsLastClone

needs to post more. My read on him is not very good. I haven't really seen anythign actively scummy from him, but don't have enough data to make a really firm judgement on that. While I want to see more from him and will pay attention very carefully, it seems more useful to focus on those I find actively scummy for now.

RadioInterference

I think is probably town. Has been contributing useful thoughts and questions, and I haven't seen him do anything I particularly didn't like.

---

I'll post a more complete case on Muerrto and Amor later tomorrow, this is just a quick overview of my notes here. Too tired to get much more than that up right now.

[Amor]

Ugh, I was like 65% through my analysis of CKD's posts when my computer ate it. I may go back and do it again, or I may just abandon it... nevertheless, I've noticed a couple of contradictions that I will bring up soon either way.

Macavenger, welcome to the game! I've responded on the thing about changing my playstyle, as well as the "safe lynch" idea, but I'll take a look at your case and try and argue against it. You say that BaB's bandwagon was going after an easy lynch, but at the time I voted BaB no one else was doing so and nobody else did so until Muertto replaced in. In fact, a couple people had commented that they thought BaB was town. How is that the easy target?

[Muerrto]

I think it was a perfectly fine question.
now here another one. Have you played a game before that has gone on this long for only one day?

Many times. Yes. I've been at page 30 over a span of 3 months on day 1 and the mod was in the game.

Have you?

[Muerrto]

Macavenger, welcome to the game! I've responded on the thing about changing my playstyle, as well as the "safe lynch" idea, but I'll take a look at your case and try and argue against it. You say that BaB's bandwagon was going after an easy lynch, but at the time I voted BaB no one else was doing so and nobody else did so until Muertto replaced in. In fact, a couple people had commented that they thought BaB was town. How is that the easy target?

QFT if I'd wanted an easy target I would've joined the others on CKD. He never got alot of actual votes but he had quite a few people saying they would vote him. People fought me on BaB all day and honestly, I'm still glad we picked him because he has to learn that scum tells can't be excused just because you're new. It also greatly lessened the clutter.

[curiouskarmadog]

Muerrto, I was an easier target than Bab? And other than WLC who else was on my wagon?

Mac, RI has done exact jack to help this town, again, why do you feel like he is town?

Nothing has changed my view of Amor, but WLC silly attack on me for "Clogging" the thread yesterday seeped of scum trying to set up a lynch today but not wanting to be associated with the leading wagon that he knew would flip town. WLC, why must I have been scummy for "clogging" the thread but Bab (who was the worst offender) not scummy?

Amor, I said numerous times that I thought Bab was the VI and that there were far scummier people in this game. Now that you have hung a townie, you are trying to say I am scummy for not being on the wagon..it doesnt work that way. Why are you trying to avoid your responsiblity.

Now, I am not placing a vote right now, because the td kill I find interesting...and need to reread more.

[Muerrto]

Muerrto, I was an easier target than Bab? And other than WLC who else was on my wagon?

Well, BaB for one...

My point was if I was scum I wouldn't have tunnelled one person, there's no point to it.