Open 554 - omg, like, jungle republic!! + game over~~

[Majiffy]

Thor;

I have NotMafia, Jon and Kat as lean-town from their interactions with the Finglove wagon.

Shattered and Ninja lean scum for their empty, wagon-jumping votes.

Looks like the two slots that had the most to gain from an Enomis death were Ninja and mnemonic (particularly mnemonic).

I say we split the difference and hit Ninja today, look at {Shattered, mnemonic} in the immediate future, work outside that set afterwards.

Hence POE.

[Not_Mafia]

That didn't really occur to me that the "slip" followed after these. If it hadn't, it would show inconsistency with case he's presenting and what he's saying in terms of what scumteam he's hunting, which would indicate he's one faction hunting the other.

Well...yes, that's why I asked you about it. Except your only example didn't gel with that concept. Now that you know the order was different...is he still scummy, or has the read there changed?

Well he's still in the scumpool by PoE but my scumcase on him now is admittedly largely associative

And about Kat, just tonally I found her posts sincere and born of genuine town concern, I think if it were her resisting a lynch on her partner it would have been at least somewhat evident, we're from the same homesite so I know she's only been scum twice and it looks like her townposting to me

How is her tone different when scum?
If you can't answer this - my next question will be 'then how do you believe you can spot her townposting enough to rule her out as scum and resort to PoE as a scumhunting tool?'[/quote]

She's a lot more flaily as scum, so I don't think she'd have such a level headed and natural looking response to her partner being hard wagoned

[Thor665]

I have NotMafia, Jon and Kat as lean-town from their interactions with the Finglove wagon.

Can you expand on each individual one - I even already discussed Kat's interaction and found it lacking, maybe you should show what I missed, also expound on the other two.

Shattered and Ninja lean scum for their empty, wagon-jumping votes.

This coming from you and being told to me...
I know I don't actually consider unexplained votes scummy - do you now? What specifically made them bad?

Looks like the two slots that had the most to gain from an Enomis death were Ninja and mnemonic (particularly mnemonic).

Okay.
Why?

I say we split the difference and hit Ninja today, look at {Shattered, mnemonic} in the immediate future, work outside that set afterwards.

So your current suspects are Justin and I.
Are we wolves, mafia, or a mix, and who do you think is the third? By your list it sounds like Reinoe...and what alignment do you think he is? And if it isn't him, who is it?

[Thor665]

She's a lot more flaily as scum, so I don't think she'd have such a level headed and natural looking response to her partner being hard wagoned

That would sell me quite a bit.
Can you give me a link or two showing her flaily scum game?

[Majiffy]

Can you expand on each individual one - I even already discussed Kat's interaction and found it lacking, maybe you should show what I missed, also expound on the other two.

Here let me go pull another direct quote from my ISO again Thor...

Scum doesn't say this.

There's Jon. I mentioned Kat and N_M elsewhere but frankly I'm really getting tired of your shenaniganry so I'm not doing any more legwork. Look for yourself.

This coming from you and being told to me...
I know I don't actually consider unexplained votes scummy - do you now? What specifically made them bad?

Situational.

Looks like the two slots that had the most to gain from an Enomis death were Ninja and mnemonic (particularly mnemonic).

Okay.
Why?

Enomis was pushing them.

Jesus fuck have you read

anything?

So your current suspects are Justin and I.
Are we wolves, mafia, or a mix, and who do you think is the third? By your list it sounds like Reinoe...and what alignment do you think he is? And if it isn't him, who is it?

Probably Reinoe, yeah. Recent posts have really bothered me.

I'm not alignment hunting. I'm just hitting scum.

[Not_Mafia]

http://koalas.forumotion.com/t6p50-fash ... day-4#1286

Link starts at the more relevant section of the game

She is Valentino in this, she claimed 2 shot sensor (which she was, but a scum one) and is flaily when grilled on the timing of her claim and about her calling her scumpartner conf. town for being a dayvig

In regards to Reinoe's "slip", I don't think it was a hard and fast slip as you and Justin seem to think it is and if I were town in his position then I wouldn't even know how to respond to it other than saying "lol I said it weird"

[Thor665]

Here let me go pull another direct quote from my ISO again Thor...

Thank you - no need for the 'neutral' face, y'know. I'm being quite open that I expect you to do the work to present your own thoughts. I do believe that's a reasonable stance to ask someone to back up what they state to believe.

You and I both know I haven't read most of this game.

Scum doesn't say this.

There's Jon. I mentioned Kat and N_M elsewhere but frankly I'm really getting tired of your shenaniganry so I'm not doing any more legwork. Look for yourself.

Okay, two things;

1. I see * no distancing from FInglove at all here* I literally do not see it...nothing seems to even hint at it. What am I missing (this is a good reason I'm not doing the search myself, I'd have missed this entirely)

2. I have already discussed the Kat one (at least as much as N_M presented it) and have indicated why I disagree. If your reasons are the same as his, then please address my thoughts. If they're different - then maybe stating them again or quoting them would help him and I. I'll even accept a phrase of something I can Ctrl+F your ISO for - I'm ertainly willing to do that level of work.

Situational.

Okay.
What was the situation that made you consider them so?

Enomis was pushing them.

So you think scum is trying to kill people successfully chasing them...but you want to keep trying to lynch me, who you've been pushing on for multiple game days? WHy wouldn't scum kill you then if you were on the right track? This seems very shallow thinking on your part...how am I wrong here?

Jesus Smurf have you read

anything?

Only what I have been specifically linked to, and every post since I replaced in, and I don't intend to read the rest. This is what I always do, I'm sure you've seen it before. Are you actually confused or surprised by this?

Probably Reinoe, yeah. Recent posts have really bothered me.

I'm not alignment hunting. I'm just hitting scum.

....whoa, do you think that's a good strategy at this stage of the game?

The optimal lynch today is to accurately identify the Wolf and lynch him.
The secondary option is to correctly lynch Mafia though then we *need* to tag the Wolf tomorrow...so should be trying to find him regardless.
The third is to mislynch, but get the wolf to shoot Mafia, but that is still a situation of *needing* a Wolf lynch tomorrow.
We lose on a mislynch and a mis shot.

You should at least be Mafia hunting for the wolves, otherwise a mislynch and a mis shot means Mafia wins - do you understand why it's important to know the scum team you are connecting a person to now?

[Thor665]

@N_M - I actually don't think that looks particularly flaily unless you mean, by dropping some f-bombs. She stuck to her story, reiterated her stance, and it blew over in seconds and she got the lynch she wanted. Is it just the aggro level she went to? Because seems like she'd do that just based off the PR claim more than anything, yeah?

[Not_Mafia]

Well it's not quite that simple but essentially yes. I see it as flaily for her because she's not the type to drop profanity laden "you are bad at this"esque comments as town, she's more "you are wrong and this is why I believe you're wrong"

[reinoe]

WTF? We need to lynch the mafia goon(Thor). Of course you are erroneously saying that bullshit about finding werewolves today. There's two goons and you're one of them. We still have a seer to find the werewolf and the werewolf is probably jason or lia.

But how 'bout this...

@Not_Mafia &Majiffy...

Should we be trying to lynch the werewolf or the 2nd mafia goon?

[Thor665]

@N_M - so...her not cussing during that period makes her town? I'm not sure I buy that...like, I'm actually sure I don't buy that. I feel like I'm missing something here, or you're trying to sell me a bent bill of cards.

@Reinoe - There are 6 players alive. 2 are mafia, 1 is werewolf. The werewolf has a kill effect, the mafia do not. The math is really quite simple, try to work it out and get back to me.

[Not_Mafia]

It's not simply not cussing and it doesn't make her town; I find her reaction to the wagon to be more in line with her town play than her scum play and there is nothing in your slot, JP and Lia that would make me townread them more than the Kat slot

[Not_Mafia]

You can strike the "makes her town" bit from my comment, misinterpreted your post a bit

[Thor665]

Okay, I am not a fan of your PoE logic but understand your position as it stands on Kat.

You mention JP and Lia as possible considerations with me. You also appear to suspect Reinoe. What made me the best of the four to vote? It can't just be PoE or otherwise I could get you to vote Reinoe or something right now, so what's edging you towards me/Mneumonic. I wish to know so I can tell you how bad that logic is and get you to drop your vote.

[Not_Mafia]

@Reinoe WW lynch is better as a mafia lynch leads to murky and awkward endgame scenarios whereas a WW lynch gives us a clean nightless path to winning

@Thor it was a pressure vote on Mnem for lurking that I haven't felt compelled to move. I'm still trying to figure out if you're mafia or ww. Enomis kill could point to your slot but also could have come from NT or WW may have been hunting mafia, which the Enomis and S and Em kills but not so much the Tier kill could indicate. I can definitely see a Thor/JP scumteam but I'm wary of pre flip associative reasoning. If JP is scum I don't think he's WW as he was attacking Tier day 2 and I doubt he'd ruin his momentum like that as WW. So that rules him out for today's lynch for me. Reinoe advocating a goon lynch is admittedly very... bleargh, for want of a better word.

UNVOTE: Thor it's now redundant as a pressure vote as I've had to explain that and I do think you're more likely goon. Currently leaning Lia as the wolf due to the slot. Going to reread Jon and see if I can see what made the others readflip day 2.

[Marquis]

wow nice activity guys it's finally getting good

---

votecount 4.5!!

Thor665 (2) ::

Majiffy, reinoe (L-2)

reinoe (1) ::

Justin Playfair (L-3)

not voting (3) ::

Lia, Not_Mafia, Thor665

deadline is 7 days from this post ::

(expired on 2014-06-09 16:00:00)

with 6 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch!!

[Thor665]

wow nice activity guys it's finally getting good

But of course - I'm here.

@N_M - the Thor/Justin case exists, though I'd note it's entirely from Justin's side of the equation. Roll that thought around in your head and see if wisdom comes.

I think Reinoe makes decent sense as a Wolf.
I think neither you nor Kat do.
I marginally lean Majiffy as scum, but am still working that angle.

Can you link me to your evidence of Justin not being a wolf and also maybe expand on why Lia makes sense as one? I have no sense of Lia.

Also, any Wolf who hasn't been trying to hit Mafia for at least a phase or two has a poor grasp of the rules.

[Thor665]

@Majiffy - I have a thought, but will admit I've been drinking today and would like to get it bounced off someone whose opinion I vaguely consider worth listening to when they aren't being a ponce.

I'll choose to phrase my seeking of an opinion to you this way - why has town not asked for the Seer to reveal?
Functionally, at this stage, a seer reveal gets a confirmed town, is happening the day before lylo, and, unless we lynch mafia today, the wolf is handing the game to mafia if he shoots the seer.
So, really, for wolf *and* town the optimal situation is to reveal the seer to rule out mislynch/mis shot for both.
Of course, after that the optimal town goal is to lynch wolf, while the optimal wolf goal is to get a Mafia lynch, but...at the end of the day a mafia lynch isn't bad for town.

Am I missing something?
I think I'm brilliant.
i just always think that because the tequila tells me it's true.

[Majiffy]

Thank you - no need for the 'neutral' face, y'know. I'm being quite open that I expect you to do the work to present your own thoughts. I do believe that's a reasonable stance to ask someone to back up what they state to believe.

You and I both know I haven't read most of this game.

And you and I both know that I hate repeating myself.

Okay, two things;

1. I see * no distancing from FInglove at all here* I literally do not see it...nothing seems to even hint at it. What am I missing (this is a good reason I'm not doing the search myself, I'd have missed this entirely)

2. I have already discussed the Kat one (at least as much as N_M presented it) and have indicated why I disagree. If your reasons are the same as his, then please address my thoughts. If they're different - then maybe stating them again or quoting them would help him and I. I'll even accept a phrase of something I can Ctrl+F your ISO for - I'm ertainly willing to do that level of work.

1. Well good, you're not supposed to see distancing from Finglove. This is a jontown case, not a jonscum case.

2. Maybe later.

Situational.

Okay.
What was the situation that made you consider them so?

The situation of the wagon. Two opposing scum teams, one bussing the other just voting because lolnotmyteam, etc.

Which, you know, I already stated numerous times earlier.

Enomis was pushing them.

So you think scum is trying to kill people successfully chasing them...but you want to keep trying to lynch me, who you've been pushing on for multiple game days? WHy wouldn't scum kill you then if you were on the right track? This seems very shallow thinking on your part...how am I wrong here?

You're wrong because it's late-game. That was the first kill, and I think we've gotten a wolf flip out of it already? So...?

Plus you could always be kill-less mafia. This is a bad argument Thor and you know it.

Only what I have been specifically linked to, and every post since I replaced in, and I don't intend to read the rest. This is what I always do, I'm sure you've seen it before. Are you actually confused or surprised by this?

Just thoroughly annoyed because if you're town you're not helping me

not

mislynch you.

....whoa, do you think that's a good strategy at this stage of the game?

Considering I've led lynches on both mafia and wolf, I'd say it's working pretty well so far, yeah.

The optimal lynch today is to accurately identify the Wolf and lynch him.
The secondary option is to correctly lynch Mafia though then we *need* to tag the Wolf tomorrow...so should be trying to find him regardless.
The third is to mislynch, but get the wolf to shoot Mafia, but that is still a situation of *needing* a Wolf lynch tomorrow.
We lose on a mislynch and a mis shot.

Looks to me like we just need to hit scum, then hit scum again.

Which I'm pretty good at.

You should at least be Mafia hunting for the wolves, otherwise a mislynch and a mis shot means Mafia wins - do you understand why it's important to know the scum team you are connecting a person to now?

I understand your argument, I think it's dumb. There are 3 anti-town roles left. I have 3 probable scums. I feel like my success rate is going to be pretty good.

@Majiffy - I have a thought, but will admit I've been drinking today and would like to get it bounced off someone whose opinion I vaguely consider worth listening to when they aren't being a ponce.

I'll choose to phrase my seeking of an opinion to you this way - why has town not asked for the Seer to reveal?
Functionally, at this stage, a seer reveal gets a confirmed town, is happening the day before lylo, and, unless we lynch mafia today, the wolf is handing the game to mafia if he shoots the seer.
So, really, for wolf *and* town the optimal situation is to reveal the seer to rule out mislynch/mis shot for both.
Of course, after that the optimal town goal is to lynch wolf, while the optimal wolf goal is to get a Mafia lynch, but...at the end of the day a mafia lynch isn't bad for town.

Am I missing something?
I think I'm brilliant.
i just always think that because the tequila tells me it's true.

Seer hunts wolf. We get no cleared town, just "not wolf". And Wolf doesn't have to worry about hitting wolf.

[Majiffy]

I'm feeling pretty effin' good about this Thor lynch. There are too many holes in Thor's theories, play, and general demeanor that just don't fit townThor.

[reinoe]

Thor, why aren't you voting for anyone?

[reinoe]

@LIA, what is your opinion of post 541?

[Thor665]

And you and I both know that I hate repeating myself.

I can agree with that - but I like to force you to do it anyway because I think it forces you to be more pro-town if you're town. And I've never used it as a point against you as far as alignment goes, so you know my boggle with it is simply one of 'play the game, silly man-child' rather than 'this is a scum/town tell' anyways - so I don't know what your issue is besides being weird about explaining our thought process.

1. Well good, you're not supposed to see distancing from Finglove. This is a jontown case, not a jonscum case.

How does him making generic comments about not liking a town block that he isn't included in a town tell?

2. Maybe later.

The situation of the wagon. Two opposing scum teams, one bussing the other just voting because lolnotmyteam, etc.

So they were not on a given scum wagon and you take that as a towntell because you would expect bussing from partners and lynching from non-partners - do I have that right? Because if so, that would suggest I'm not scum. So I think I'm missing something in my understanding of what you're saying here.

You're wrong because it's late-game. That was the first kill, and I think we've gotten a wolf flip out of it already? So...?

No, that makes sense.

Plus you could always be kill-less mafia. This is a bad argument Thor and you know it.

This doesn't - what are you even accusing me of here?

Just thoroughly annoyed because if you're town you're not helping me

not

mislynch you.

I can't help it if you don't follow the OG flowchart.

Looks to me like we just need to hit scum, then hit scum again.

Which I'm pretty good at.

No - it's not. If we lynch Mafia twice in a row then Wolf wins. I want to smack you for sounding so dumb.
Sober up before assessing these things.

Seer hunts wolf. We get no cleared town, just "not wolf". And Wolf doesn't have to worry about hitting wolf.

I understand you think this is a rebuttal of my thought.
I do not understand the point you're making...I understand that Seer hunts wolf, I don't see how that changes things from my suggestion.

I'm feeling pretty effin' good about this Thor lynch. There are too many holes in Thor's theories, play, and general demeanor that just don't fit townThor.

If you honestly think there are holes in my theories it's because you think a scum lynch followed by a second scum lynch equates to a town win in this situation.
You do not appear to understand the setup at all - I'm almost praying it's deliberate but am worried you're just trying to e-peen measure with me instead of using your brain.

There are 6 players alive.
There are 3 scum alive.
We need to lynch Wolf asap.
This is not complicated.

Quite frankly, if a Mafia open claimed Mafia - I would be willing to sheep him and would defend him from lynch at this stage.
If you would do otherwise you are not qualified to lead this town out of a wet paper bag due to failure of understanding the game state.

Please tell me you grok this.

Thor, why aren't you voting for anyone?

Because I'm hunting for the wolf, and until I find the wolf with near certainty in my head I'm not voting.

[reinoe]

Thor, why aren't you voting for anyone?

Because I'm hunting for the wolf, and until I find the wolf with near certainty in my head I'm not voting.

This rings hallow to me. You're interacting almost exclusively with Majiffy with occasional dalliances with N_M or I. You've not addressed Lia or Justin at all.

[Thor665]

You're right.

Except no one has during this period really, because both of them are being lurksacks. You're also missing that I am asking *about* them, so if my goal was to not involve them because...of reasons...then I'm doing it in an awkward way.