Open 184: Friends and Enemies Mafia (Over)

[farside22]

Those links are nothing.

SABER'S BEST EXAMPLE

[/quote]


You know I've been told I can reduce the games you ask to go in to if I so desire. Don't press it any further.

[farside22]

Meh, I'm still keeping my vote on Saber. He's exhibited every scumtell in the book, far beyond the bounds of bad play. I played in a game recently with him, and while he was pretty bad...he wasn't THIS bad. I think we can distinguish the two games and say that he looks scummy anyway, but in games in which he actually is scum, he looks EXTREMELY scummy.

Why is it that whenever DLA did something scummy you kept pointing out a game he was lynched and was the doctor but knowing how badly saber plays and has been pointed out you still want to lynch him?

[saberwolf]

If I suppossedly look real scummy when I play scum...why have I never lost a game as scum or SK?

[Netopalis]

Because his play is about 10 times worse on this game than it was on the other one. I mean, don't get me wrong, it was bad...but it was palatable. Now, it's just bizarre.

[Netopalis]

I guess I should clarify that a bit more - DLA's play was consistent with his bad play in my previous game with him. Saber's play last time was significantly worse...

Although, actually, now that I think about it, Saber WAS scum in that game. Ugh. No. I'm not going to allow him to win on his theory that he looks less like scum when he's scum. That's just silly.

[dramonic]

The Sixth Votecount: Vote to the LEFT, Vote to the RIGHT!

DarkLightA (1): Hewitt
hewitt (1): Elli
saberwolf (3): Ojanen, DarkLightA, Netopalis
Netopalis (1): ABR
SttB (3): SerialClergyman, Saberwolf, Farside

Not Voting (3): KittyMo, SttB, Kikuchiyo[/color]

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline is the 23rd at 23:59!

[Albert B. Rampage]

The biggest issue that I don't understand is why Albert isn't focusing on hewitt. It seems to me that his theories of the game are centered around one player that he no longer wishes to vote.

My theories are all independent of each other. I've taken great care not to associate my suspects with each other or else I might out masons. I was a mason once, in a game much like this one. Me and one of my partners, a new player at the time by the name of a papaya, were outed on Day 1. It's bad enough if scum figure out who the masons are without the masons having to actually come out and claim, dragging one of their partners with them because they did a bad job of hiding their relationship.

For example, your dissertation of what CSL secretly meant depended on hewitt being a scum buddy. If not, it reads like it should, a bad player trying to work out if hewitt's defence was genuine or if it was scum on the end of a hook. He goes with his gut, changes his mind, remains suspicious - he's reacting in the right ways, just explaining it in a hamfisted way. But rather than that being indicative of hewitt's alignment (your buddies don't know whether to bus you or not), Albert suddenly switches.

It can certainly mean that CSL was unsure of his scumbuddies' reaction to a town hewitt getting closer to lynch. Maybe his two partners are either on the wagon or threatening to hammer, and he wants to play the opposing side to not out the scum team. There are a lot of interpretations.

One of the reasons I am no longer voting for hewitt is because for one, I think that he is a decent player that will make a good endgame choice, and for two, he claimed vanilla town in a desperate position where I think a decent scum would claim mason; with Konowa and Yarmond, no less, since almost every player was either voting him or showed a silent approval to his lynching.

As for you, clergyman, I won't kill you because you're just too much fun. Do I sound like the Joker? This is the only reason I am voting for Netopalis over you.

Rubbish. That is a townie who thinks he's just fucked up beyond repair and is demoralised into getting rid of himself. If he'd chosen to replace out himself you might have more of a case, but he was forcibly replaced - essentially, his final action was to give up in frustration and wish his own death.

It's not

what

he did, it's

how

he did. You claim he was frustrated, misunderstood, angry and demoralized. Those were not the words of demoralized town being lynched. Thisis what self-voting demoralized town looks like.

Au contraire

, CSL seemed calm and collected, embarrassed but repenting. He seemed like he was having fun up until the point where he gave up.

Those were the words and actions of scum. My experience has taught me how to detect emotional continuity, and painting his actions as contiguous to his unbalanced nature is a colorful but unsustainable defense in this particular situation, especially to a player who has seen as many nervous collapse as me.

The essence of my argument is that self-voting hold no value for scum and town. It's anti-town if you're town and anti-scum if you're scum. It's stupid, not playing to your win condition and deserves a replacement. But it's not indicative of one alignment or the other, it's indicative of BAD PLAY.

Bad play and good play can be broken down and analyzed for short-term intention and long-term motive. Human beings aren't exactly logical creatures, but there are near-inescapable patterns that govern our communication and the thought process behind it. I am conditioned to reflexively suspect the series of posts that CSL made before he was replaced. The margin of error is low.

How far is Netopalis from reaching Shotty scumminess, clergyman? I'd love to lynch him today.

[Netopalis]

Look, Albert, I think I've said this in every game that we've been in together, but I really have to take issue with your methods. You go around claiming that X is scum, almost never backing it up. You've backed up some of your claims in this game, but you've ignored most of my repeated requests and delayed those that you have answered. It's as if you expect your reputation to precede you and that we should all immediately bow down to whatever it is that you have to say. As nice as this would be for you, the problem is this: You could very well be scum just as easily, and those methods lend themselves awfully, awfully well to scum play. You may have a really good record, but I'm not going to follow any of your suggestions without at least a little bit more proof. What I am going to do, however, is this:

Unvote, Vote: Albert B. Rampage

I unvoted earlier because I wasn't serious about the lynch. I am now. Albert will be extremely, extremely dangerous to the town if he continues to play as he is doing right now. People follow him largely without question - even if it means jumping off cliffs like so many lemmings. The way that he stays on people *just* long enough to establish him going after them later is rather bothersome to me - it seems almost as if he is trying to determine who he wants rid of and set the stage for their lynch in the future. Until he remedies this behavior, I will have him on my scum list and am adding him to the growing number of people that I would be willing to lynch today.

[saberwolf]

I refuse to vote jump this time.

haha, surprised myself.

[Netopalis]

Good for you. Now, provide some original analysis of the game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR's policy of going after the best players on D1 leads to the logical conclusion of a terrible, terrible endgame in which the worst players compete to see who looks the scummiest.

It's not a policy, it's common sense. I think the scenario you mentioned is much more favorable to a situation where it's one elite scum player left with two rag players as town.

Everything about you is scummy, Neto. I don't have to take this town by the hand and promise them cupcakes for voting you. I did that with hewitt already. Your scumminess is blatant and unforgivable.

Now, neto, I know that if you're going to vote for me, saber, or any other player in this game, you can do a better job of presenting a believable case on one of us. Of course I am dangerous. Why am I scummy?

[saberwolf]

I just ISOed ABR, and not anywhere did I see him say that anybody in the game as being town, and has accused just about everybody of being scum, so he's really no better than the rest of us.

I also noticed a fascinating post that said you would not mislynch me and a few others, good to know

[Albert B. Rampage]

I just ISOed ABR, and not anywhere did I see him say that anybody in the game as being town, and has accused just about everybody of being scum, so he's really no better than the rest of us.

I also noticed a fascinating post that said you would not mislynch me and a few others, good to know

You are severely mistaken: I have accused three players. First Netopalis, because he accuses me of not providing evidence when, out of hypocrisy, he's not even building proper cases of his own. Second is hewitt, because he won't tell the abridged story of the twilight saga. Third is clergyman, because his secret identity is batman. Batman was scum. Everyone knows that.

It pains me that you don't read the game, saberwolf. It makes me cry in the shower at night. Only there will my tears be washed away and my manliness preserved in the cruel outside world.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The prodigal son returneth. You were replaced in your absence, Lab.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Holy Crap gone for 2 days and 12 pages HOLY SH** I will have to read all tomorrow

For humor's sake, before he deleted his post lol

[saberwolf]

I just ISOed ABR, and not anywhere did I see him say that anybody in the game as being town, and has accused just about everybody of being scum, so he's really no better than the rest of us.

I also noticed a fascinating post that said you would not mislynch me and a few others, good to know

You are severely mistaken: I have accused three players. First Netopalis, because he accuses me of not providing evidence when, out of hypocrisy, he's not even building proper cases of his own. Second is hewitt, because he won't tell the abridged story of the twilight saga. Third is clergyman, because his secret identity is batman. Batman was scum. Everyone knows that.

It pains me that you don't read the game, saberwolf. It makes me cry in the shower at night. Only there will my tears be washed away and my manliness preserved in the cruel outside world.

you have also targetted farside, ellebreth, konowa and kik, as well as myself. oh, and DLA too

[Netopalis]

I've given plenty of reasoning. You're using your power and influence to set people up for lynches on questionable logic. To me, this is the hallmark of scum - since scum cannot rely on attacking those people who lie, they have to try to attack those who are telling the truth but make it look as if they are lying. The simplest way to accomplish this is through the creation of a culture of scumminess - through simply saying enough times that someone is scummy. This is what you are doing.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Brilliant deduction, saber. Absolutely brilliant. Your powers of scumhunting boggle the mind. I am so enamored with your massive intelligence that words simply do not describe exactly how I'm feeling right now. I just can't say how much I want to drop everything and follow you to the endgame on this one. Everyone, let's nominate him for one of the scummies! Heck, let's nominate him for all of them! Clearly, this man has put more time and energy into the game than any other player and has cracked the scum-code to its simplest form!

[saberwolf]

Yay for laziness!

boo for sarcasm

You just earned yourself a vote:

unvote; vote: ABR

Now I need neto to comment on this so I can switch my vote again.

[Netopalis]

Comment.

Also, ABR, taking to quoting me? I'll take it as a compliment, I suppose, although I find its use ironic.

[Ellibereth]

SerialClergyman: CSL's play seemed to be consistent with all his other games EXCEPT for the self-vote. While SC's wall was really impressive, I lean more toward scum due to CSL's play.
hewitt: I originally thought he was scum, but I don't think scum would rant that much and now he feels more town. Wierd the way he defended Neto though.
Albert B. Rampage: Seems confident and sure about everything. I also like reading his posts the most. Town.
saberwolf: I don't like his play and he confuses me a lot. I can never tell when he's serious and when he's not. Using the meta excuse for everything is pretty bad IMO and I feel he needs to be lynched sooner or later.
Shotty to the Body: I originally thought of him as neutral but after after reading SC's post, it makes him seem much more scummier...
Netopalis: I'm not really sure why, but my gut leans scum. Seems to suspect anyone who presents someonething without a concrete case
kikuchiyo: Her early play felt like town, but hasn't really done much since then. Neutral, leaning town.
DarkLightA: I don't understand what he says. I played with him in an ongoing game now which I can't discuss. He feels more like scum here.
farside22: Seems to be farily normal town player.
saberwolf: I don't like his play and he confuses me a lot. I can never tell when he's serious and when he's not. Using the meta excuse for everything is pretty bad IMO and I feel he needs to be lynched sooner or later if no scum is caught. Neutral, leaning both ways.
Ojanen: I didn't get much from Konowa's play, but the whole meta thing with saber was interesting. Neutral
KittyMo: Nothing. neutral.

So Scum are: Neto, Shotty, DLA, Serial. One too many...

Yes, I know the above has close to no to no real logic in it, it's just my feeling.

I'm going

Unvote, Vote Shotty

since he's the one in the three closest to being lynched.

I don't see what's so pro-town about Neto...

That's because you clearly have not read this game.

So anyone who doesn't think he's town hasn't read the game?

Ellibereth is scum. That is an epic case of hold on for the ride bandwagoning. His entire play has been 'I agree'.

I'll admit everything here is true except for the first sentence.

[Netopalis]

If you automatically agree with whatever everybody else says, why are you even bothering to play mafia? You really, really need to branch out and form your own opinions. I'd recommend a newbie game before this...but what's done is done.

[hewitt]

Oh my God I wanted to vomit after reading Ellibereth's last post.

[saberwolf]

woah, hewitt's in this game too? :shocked:

[saberwolf]

EBWOP