Warrior Cats Mafia [Game Over!]

[Datisi]

like, "can't see how i got there" is a very dumb point because it's very obvious how i got there and i in fact spelled it out prior to voting charloux

> find norwee sus (ftr, he was feeling underwhelming)
> alisae offers an explanation why norwee is sus that i can vibe with
> wanna vote someone else
> the only suspicion i have on someone currently (that i feel will be beneficial by me voting there) is charloux, as i could see clear scum-motivation in voting bear there and his thoughts didn't make sense internally
> time passes, he explains more stuff about mech, admits the vote was a tilt vote, okay yeh i can buy that, i don't find him scummy anymore, unvote

like literally nothing about this is difficult to understand, you can claim you don't *buy* my progression if you want, but framing as if i didn't explain it is lol

also like, your points about me pushing against the wagon, then voting there, then unvoting - you obviously find that scummy. WHY is that scummy? what is the scum motivation behind doing that? obviously an answer is "fake solving", but you're framing it as if there's something *more* there and i don't get it

for the record - in a different game i'd probably be voting fa right now because i think her push on me stinks by far the most than what anyone else has done this game. but i have had a few people say she is Just Like That sometimes. so i'd like those people to chime in and say what they think here. thanks.

[Datisi]

the whole agenda seems with extra intentions

what is my agenda here. or was, i guess.

[Datisi]

so i know misty is a wagon of some sort, and i opened her iso to see why, and i see 499 talking about val being town, which made me interested because what she described as a towntell there is not something that i remember form val's towngame

and uh, 444 feels Really Bad to me

like, my memory of invictus (where we were both town and val was tunneling the shit out of me) is that he doesn't like, ~calm down~ from his pushes. like. i would've accepted him tunneling alisae. i would've accepted him stepping back and re-evaluating. but... something about "actually i've cooled down and i'm no longer that sure of it... but i'm anyway gonna spend the next 9 days trying to convince everyone to kill alisae" is ???

it makes me feel like the "i've thought about it" was thrown in just for performance's sake and that he wants to keep tunnelling his easy tunnel

@misty, what did you find townie about that post? do you really feel like he "cooled" on that read?

VOTE: val

i wanna see what happens here

gn

[Mistyx]

@misty, what did you find townie about that post? do you really feel like he "cooled" on that read?

sure

the progression between 294 and 444 feels genuine to me

i don't think "cooled" necessarily means reevaluated but i think going from "this is lockscum i want this dead" to "i still think this is scum but i'm not going to tunnel this into the ground, here are my reasons" is a good look

but... something about "actually i've cooled down and i'm no longer that sure of it... but i'm anyway gonna spend the next 9 days trying to convince everyone to kill alisae" is ???

i think you parsed this part of the post wrong, i read it as "i no longer am sure of that and no longer only want to convince the entire game to kill ali"

[Datisi]

he can clarify, ig

i didn't think "cool" meant "reevaluated", but it does crack my point a bit if he was trying to say something else there

though the post still doesn't give me a lot of confidence that he's actually going softer on that read

[Alisae]

the progression between 294 and 444 feels genuine to me

i don't think "cooled" necessarily means reevaluated but i think going from "this is lockscum i want this dead" to "i still think this is scum but i'm not going to tunnel this into the ground, here are my reasons" is a good look

Why can't scum have progression like that? One of my concerns was that his read was unnatural, their teammates could have easily just told him to dial it down a bit to look more natural. If he stays at "this is lockscum I want this dead" that's not necessarily the best look for him

[Mistyx]

the progression between 294 and 444 feels genuine to me

i don't think "cooled" necessarily means reevaluated but i think going from "this is lockscum i want this dead" to "i still think this is scum but i'm not going to tunnel this into the ground, here are my reasons" is a good look

Why can't scum have progression like that? One of my concerns was that his read was unnatural, their teammates could have easily just told him to dial it down a bit to look more natural. If he stays at "this is lockscum I want this dead" that's not necessarily the best look for him

not really

you were the only one pushing back on it afaict

[fireisredsir]

for the record - in a different game i'd probably be voting fa right now because i think her push on me stinks by far the most than what anyone else has done this game. but i have had a few people say she is Just Like That sometimes. so i'd like those people to chime in and say what they think here. thanks.

in my previous game with FA i felt like she was kinda right for the wrong reasons a lot, or at least her reasons were explained in a messy way

like i argued with her logic the whole game bc i felt it was wrong but then her reads ended up being correct

in this case i would say that i agree with her that your progression there feels a little off, but i thought it was more on the side of overexplained/overtelegraphed rather than underexplained

and like your defense after jumping on that with like "actually it was explained perfectly already here let me show you" does kinda fit with that so

[fireisredsir]

like going from 363, asking him a question and implying you find him suspicious for his actions, to 372 where you vote and reference that prior post, to 469 where you say "i already spelled out exactly why i voted you and what i want from you", to 476 where you think his answer is fine and back off

it just kinda feels like you had the whole trajectory planned in advance?

what exactly did you see in 472 that changed your mind? and throwing in the comments in 476 about agreeing with stuff others said about him being town and that you don't want to push a mech point just feels kinda weird bc why did that only now come into play? its like overexplained. idk why you felt the need to bring that stuff up, bc if it was important to your read, then why didn't it matter earlier?

[mastina]

Why don’t you see it fit now that you have sus reads would be the next question to that response.

I AM NOT EXACTLY CONVINCED THAT NORWEGIABOY IS TRUSTWORTHY OR EVEN NULL

This. I'm pretty sure Norwee's scum, here.

Dare I say it?

...I have a soulread on Norwee as being scum here.

[mastina]

I think I need to see a larger volume of fire posts before I can really read him effectively
I do think he's like a little more performative as scum than town and so I liked him posting takes first and only explaining them when asked

Since Datisi's Cafe is officially over, I can say this feels night/day different from fire's scumplay there, so I'm quite comfortable with fire as town.

[Datisi]

the entire 472 post felt honest and i could understand the idea of tilt voting bear

and it only "came into play then" because i don't want to let the person i'm pressuring know that i actually have some thoughts on why they're town because that diminishes my push (and also if their response ends up being really scummy, i can keep pushing on it without people going "but datisi you just said they're town because xyz why are you still pushing--" shut up you don't know how my brain works)

this is @fire

[mastina]

norwee wind tribe

Oh so definitely scum then.

Norwee's not town here.

[fireisredsir]

the entire 472 post felt honest and i could understand the idea of tilt voting bear

and it only "came into play then" because i don't want to let the person i'm pressuring know that i actually have some thoughts on why they're town because that diminishes my push (and also if their response ends up being really scummy, i can keep pushing on it without people going "but datisi you just said they're town because xyz why are you still pushing--" shut up you don't know how my brain works)

this is @fire

would you say it was a pressure vote to get an answer or a legitimate suspicion or both/somewhere in between

[Datisi]

60% pressure, 10% legit vote, 30% not wanting to vote norwee anymore but not liking when my vote isn't active

[fireisredsir]

hmm ok

you can go to sleep now

[mastina]

VOTE: Charloux
Don't like the response to my stray claim on multiple levels.

Hot take:
We should eliminate Titus regardless of her alignment.

If she's scum, then she'll be dead scum.

If she's town, well, she's a player who

loves

private topics so with her lacking PTs, she's going to be miserable the entire time so an elimination would put her out of her misery.

[mastina]

Anyone who thinks there is exactly 1 scum in each neighborhood should mathematically be voting Titus.

To be fair: I realize it's level-0 thinking to believe that there's one scum in each neighborhood and a final scum outside of all.

...But I'm scumreading Titus anyway, so while it might be level-0 thinking, I happen to think that Titus is scum in spite of it being a cliche for the out-of-all-neighborhoods player to be scum.

Basically, it's a case of:
I know what the expected standard is.
I know that Ydrasse isn't going to just default to the standard.
However, in spite of knowing that the standard isn't just going to be a default run as a given...

...Whatever the means, whatever the method, I believe that it just so happens that the player outside the neighborhoods is scum (thus matching the expected standard through sheer coincidence). How they ended up there is likely some form of unfortunate-for-the-scum RNG, but I still think it is.

So unironically, I DO support a Titus elimination.

It's just that I also happen to think that Norwee is scum, much much much stronger than I think Titus is.

[mastina]

Do we all agree that is a stupid assumption now? Great!

What comes to you mind when u read Val's ISO[/quote]Tbh Val was very hard to get a read on.
I loosely think that 167 demonstrates a town thought process unlikely to come from scum, but the rest of Val's posts are just ~*(static)*~ that I can't find a read on.

Val looks to be trying to be productive, Val looks to be trying to be helpful to the town, Val's content I feel is trying to be pro-town, but aside from 167, nothing looks clearly town or clearly scum-powertowning. 167 is enough to push to town, but it's far from my most confident townread.

[mastina]

What comes to you mind when u read Val's ISO

Tbh Val was very hard to get a read on.
I loosely think that 167 demonstrates a town thought process unlikely to come from scum, but the rest of Val's posts are just ~*(static)*~ that I can't find a read on.

Val looks to be trying to be productive, Val looks to be trying to be helpful to the town, Val's content I feel is trying to be pro-town, but aside from 167, nothing looks clearly town or clearly scum-powertowning. 167 is enough to push to town, but it's far from my most confident townread.

Quote fix'd.

[mastina]

pedit: Ya penguin time flies by really quickly lmfao. Thanks!!!

Hot take:
Either Titus is town,
OR we do have an all-town clan. (Technically, not mutually exclusive, if there's two clans with two scum or even one clan with three, but for this point, I only need one of the above to be true.)

Because Alisae and Norwee are both scum from the same clan.

[mastina]

Those takes were given after Alisea asked Norwee, and only Norwee, very leading questions that amounted to "What is your read on X player based on posts Y and Z", which as you can see from the conclusion given by themselves, focused on a very narrow subset of the player base; and I was very surprised to see Alisea give Norwee a townread on that basis, and I asked Norwee if he thought he was in agreement with Alisea. To be fair, the answer Norwee gave was 'yes', but I made no secret of the fact I had my suspicions there, and to see that quickly manifest in main thread as a case against me is to say the least.
VOTE: Alisea

Oh nevermind about having difficulty reading Val.

Val's town here and Alisae and Norwee ARE scum together.

The interactions being talked about are 100% scum-scum, done to be performative to hood-mates.

I prefer Norwee first tho since my scumread there's stronger.

But at this stage, I'd vote any of:
Norwee > Alisae ~

>

Titus.

[mastina]

Alisae's reaction to Val's push btw is also a scum reaction.

It's an over-reaction to Val's 276. Val's 276 was a good point/post, but Alisae's push there is, essentially, scum having a snap-reaction that is too strong/too forced.

It's not quite a panic-OMGUS, but the best description I can give is that it is a panic-OMGUS, for lack of a better term.

Basically, it's too on the nose for Alisae's comfort--e knows what the scumteam is, and knowing what the scumteam is, there is a strong reaction to react strongly when someone gets too close to the truth on that scumteam, especially after e put so much work into laying good foundations in scum-scum interactions meant to look good. To have said scum-scum interactions called such from a newer player elicited a reaction that Alisae will regret like five ten minutes later, because it's a rusty-Alisae still getting into the swing of things not accounting for shifted site meta and new blood with the new blood calling em out. With the read from Val leaking the scumness more openly, Alisae's reaction is an instant one to a perceived immediate threat.

Now, I get that everything I am saying relies on the assumption of Alisae-Norwee being scum from the getgo, but let me explain why I don't think Alisae does that reaction

unless

it's Alisae and Norwee as scum-scum.

If Alisae is town, then Val's post doesn't elicit a reaction at all. It can maybe have a reaction of "this is a misrep and I believe it to be a scum misrep"--MAYBE. But that's a level 0 take that I don't think a town-Alisae actually has. A town-Alisae would see the post and know it to be wrong, but knowing it to be wrong, would then analyze the why, and not instantly come to the conclusion of Val being scum. Could Alisae come to that conclusion as town? Yes, but not so instantly and with such strength.

The strength of Alisae's scumread on Val is overblown, in a way that I feel indicates that Val caught Alisae and Norwee's interaction being scum-scum for what it is.

[mastina]

Rookie scum mistake to overreact to me expression my feelings on a fos.
Like do you self-consciously believe that a case was like coming onto you??? That's what I think is going on in the head of scum!you.
I did not vote you, and I asked Ceph "is this actually scum, or am I just reading everything as scummy"
But I am advancing a case on you???

Like, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Newer player rands wolf.
Newer player starts to feel like they are being suspected
Newer player overeacts and attacks the person in response to suspecting them
The person in return attacks them harder because the newer player is acting unnatural and unreasonably to the attacker.

i don't really understand what about this makes val scum tbh
like this narrative is one that could have happened if he was scum, but what makes you think that's most likely? what about it is not believable as coming from town?

Exactly, fire.

You'd know exactly the sort of reaction I think this is and why it's scum from you having made this sort of reaction when you were scum.

I think Alisae is scum here for similar reasons I thought your reaction to my claim made you scum. It's not

identical

, but it's

similar

--Alisae's reaction is overblown. Alisae's reaction is disproportionate. Alisae's reaction was a snap-reaction that was fairly OMGUSy. Sound familiar to you?

Because to me those are the hallmarks of scum that made a somewhat-panicked snap-decision to react to a town player hitting a nerve.

A town-Alisae WOULD put thought into how it could come from town. A town-Alisae would know the narrative was wrong, but not know that it came from scum. The instant judgement of Val being scum is incredibly damning for Alisae as being Alisae as scum having made a bit of an impulsive reaction that e wouldn't have made as town.

Yes, I know Alisae is impulsive regardless of alignment.
Yes, I know Alisae is reactive regardless of alignment.
Yes, I know Alisae can make OMGUSy moves as town.
Yes, I know Alisae can make snap-decisions and instantly come to a conclusion.

But there's a difference between 'can', and 'would'.

I believe a town-Alisae would not have the impulse to overreact to Val and instantly pivot to the OMGUSy push there. A town-Alisae might react to it, but not in the way e did.

[mastina]

I don’t want to believe Alisae is scum becauve they’ve been so helpful to me and seemed genuinely trying to solve me.

On the Norwee side of things I'm like 97.5% certain that this is Norwee's style of interacting with scumbuddies, especially when given a neighborhood with them. I swear that I've seen this verbatim from Norwee when Norwee was scum talking about a scumbuddy, but not seen once when Norwee was town.

I wish I could remember where so I could track it down, but like: I am

very

sure about this.