Minvitational 4 - The Mystery of the Milan Murders: Resolved

[MeMe]

No comment right now, I'll be having much more fun rubbing it in your face when the game's over .

But your vote for me makes me suspicious of you, MeMe. Are you afraid of my planned investigation on you? You're trying to lynch the only person that can clear you.

Please remember this if you decide to lynch me, guys! When I turn out to be innocent, you'll have to consider MeMe to be the last mafia!

I still think mathcam is the way to go, so

vote: mathcam

That you've gotten over-defensive and threatening both times I've suggested you as a possibility only makes me more secure in my vote.

There is no reason to be suspicious of me

at all

except for the fact I'm voting for you. Your posturing about rubbing

anything

in my face when I've been right on days one & two and you've been...well...

not

in on the lynches is humorous.

[Cadmium]

That you've gotten over-defensive and threatening both times I've suggested you as a possibility only makes me more secure in my vote.

You calling that over-defensive makes me laugh. And where did I threaten you? I'm merely pointing out to the others that they should consider you as possible scum trying to get rid of the only person who can identify you as scum. Oooh, what a threat. You aren't threatened

that

easily, MeMe, and you know it. Why make it look like that?

Your posturing about rubbing

anything

in my face when I've been right on days one & two and you've been...well...

not

in on the lynches is humorous.

Again I say, we'll talk when the game is over.

And I think you'd better convince the others with actual facts instead of just trying to make me look suspicious by attacking (which is a thing you do so well).

[MeMe]

I've given one big fact: you never voted for either scum that was lynched.

And just because I don't scare easily doesn't mean you haven't threatened me, Cadmium (and a mocking "oooh" just makes you look silly). Face it -- your reactions have been pretty heated. You voted me with a "that's it" when I said that I believed the scum to be among you, Corsato, and DP...and then when I voted you now you say you're not going to respond but instead will wait to "rub my face" in it postgame and that everyone should consider me the last mafia when you turn out to be innocent if lynched (pretty dire when you've got just one vote and no one else seems to be even considering you a viable suspect).

Your claimed suspicion of me stems solely from the fact that I suspect you, nothing else. The facts & my gameplay support my innocence -- the same cannot be said of you. And, if you

were

innocent, your attempt to set me up for the lynch tomorrow if you're to be lynched would be reckless AND contradictory when you apparently consider mathcam to be a bigger suspect than me today.

[Corsato]

Just a quick post to let you know I'm around. I just don't have time to post at the moment.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Deadline?

[mathcam]

Hm, only six left, and three totally stuck on the me-bandwagon. I *wonder* where the scum could be hiding.

And I apparently didn't write anything down about Cadmium, so I'm not sure what I was thinking in my last post. I still like DS better as a lynch target simply because of a "number of cops" argument, though I'd obviously be willing to jump ship to Cadmium to save my own hide (i.e. if someone on the mathcam bandwagon switches over there).

Cam

[MeMe]

Well, as has been pointed out by both DS & Cadmium, Cad's also claimed an investigation role. Why wouldn't

he

be another "number of cops" target?

I'm going to vote my gut. Right now it tells me not to trust the guy who says "we'll talk after the game" (when

now

is the time for talk), who, in my opinion, has overreacted to the vote & suspicion of one person, and who was missing from both scum lynches. There's enough reason to suspect him & I'd expect that, if he were innocent, he'd be able to see that and attempt to dissuade me rather than simply retaliating.

[Phoebus]

Deadline: 1200 ET Friday the 15th

[Dragon Phoenix]

Cadmium is a coppish role, but not a real cop. DS's role would take over from Corsato or myself, and is much more powerful (especially having a potential back-up doc, with so many coppish roles). I still think it is DS.

I agree though that Cadmium has risen in the ranking and is now my #2 candidate instead of mathcam. MeMe, Corsato and myself should be innocent (or brilliant if MeMe is the remaiinng scum).

[mathcam]

The "too many cops" argument, to me, is simply based on the sheer power of the claimed pro-town roles. In a game where almost everyone goes out at night, Cadmium's role is not extremely useful. On the other hand, the DS+Corasto+MeMe+DP combination of cops and docs seems slightly ludicrous. 2.5 cops and 1.5 docs is a lot for 12 players.

Cam

[MeMe]

So, no one's gonna help me lynch Cadmium?

I've got the count as:

Cam (3) - Cad, Corsato, DS
DS (2) - DP, mathcam
Cad (1) - Me

If no one budges from his wagon, Cam will die at deadline regardless of what the other three of us do. How firm are we? Any chance of change?

I'd rather just stick the last vote on Cam and go into night if all we're gonna be doing is twiddling until Friday. That's a long time.

[MeMe]

I'll just pop this out here too...

The only thing I'm not so happy with here, is my role name. I read my role description when I replaced Leo and remembered my ability throughout the game. I didn't bother to look at the description again until this role claim. I hope the mods don't see this as quoting, but my role name was "you're a cop (well kinda)". This creates a slight possibility that Corsato is faking his claim.

This looks really hinky to me...especially the "I hope the mods don't see this as quoting" -- and then pushing forward with a quote. In his shoes, if I were really concerned I might be modkilled for what I was about to do, I'd ask first instead of plunging ahead. I think it's more likely that he

knew

he wasn't in danger because it's not a direct quote.

[mathcam]

If no one budges from his wagon, Cam will die at deadline regardless of what the other three of us do. How firm are we? Any chance of change?

I, for one, am hoping Corsato has a chance to come back and read through the posts. I've already said that, given the closeness of the DP/Cadmium arguments to me, I'll be quite happy to join on whichever one will keep me alive.

I'd rather just stick the last vote on Cam and go into night if all we're gonna be doing is twiddling until Friday. That's a long time.

Yeah, agreed. Maybe you'll have better luck tomorrow. At the same time, I'd rather at least wait for Corsato. It seems apparent that the other 2 (DS/Cadmium) aren't moving (though it couldn't hurt for them to explain

why

), so if Corsato decides he's sticking, you can save a few days by finishing me off early.

Cam

[mathcam]

Just caught MeMe's post.

I have a slight hesitation in that if Cadmium's telling the truth, he's the only one that can help verify my claim. On the other hand, if he's scum, he could just make stuff up and it would be incredibly hard for anyone to tell if he was lying or not. I guess these two things cancel each other out.

On the other hand, the "Look at me, I'm worried about quoting!" thing

always

strikes me as suspicious.

I think I'll

Unvote: DS

to even out the bandwagons.

Cam

[Phoebus]

Around but inattentive begining this coming Tuesday, till next Thursday.
Totally away from Tuesday through Friday.

Miss me!

[Dragon Phoenix]

Depending on developments, I'm willing to switch to Cadmium. Voting off mathcam today is probably a big mistake.

[God]

I've been here but no time to post or do vote counts lately. School has taken most of my time, and now that im back home for thanksgiving my family has taken up the rest. I check the thread at least once a day though, so don't worry.

[Dragon Slayer]

Hmm. I think I could go with Cadmium without a bad conscience. Although claiming another invetigative role might not have been the best idea, he might have seen that he could play the "look how many there are, DS can't be backup." But then again, he hasn't really stated much on the subject. Overall I'd rather go with mathcam, but I would be willing to go with Cadmium if most of the town agreed.

-DS

[mathcam]

I appreciate your sticktuitiveness, DS, but why? Do you just not buy any of the current arguments?

Cam

[Dragon Slayer]

I feel the arguement against you is best, currently, with Cadmium in second. I'm not too crazy about some of the other arguements about everyone else out there, but that doesn't mean I'll dismiss them.

-DS

[mathcam]

I'm not saying you're dismissing anything, just wondered where you stood and why. Let me just ask:

Do you really think it's likely that the town has a night cop, a day cop, a regular doc, a backup cop/doc,

and

a role that can detect whether or not players can out at night? (Not to mention a vig, role-blocker, and night-saviour)

Cam

[Cadmium]

I've given one big fact: you never voted for either scum that was lynched.

That's pretty easy for you to say, isn't it ? You were on about

every

bandwagon in this game. And besides, if that's all you can find on me, I don't think your case is that strong. In fact, that's not even a case.

And just because I don't scare easily doesn't mean you haven't threatened me, Cadmium (and a mocking "oooh" just makes you look silly).

Then explain to me again how I threatened you? As I explained before, I was just giving my thoughts to the town. If that was threatening you, then you've already killed me with your posts.

Face it -- your reactions have been pretty heated. You voted me with a "that's it" when I said that I believed the scum to be among you, Corsato, and DP...and then when I voted you now you say you're not going to respond but instead will wait to "rub my face" in it postgame and that everyone should consider me the last mafia when you turn out to be innocent if lynched (pretty dire when you've got just one vote and no one else seems to be even considering you a viable suspect).

Do I really have to explain to you why my reaction was somewhat heated? Well okay, here goes.

Today, I thought we had a pretty good chance of winning this game. DP had to be the doc, and I believed Corsato and DS. This made me believe that the last mafia is in the mason (either you or mathcam). I gave my opinion on the matter. This is where you come in. After I point to you, you point to DP, Corsato and me (so you're doing the same thing why you think I'm suspicious). And that was enough for me to make up my mind on who to lynch.

Then we all claim and I immediately unvote you because I can clear you. I give my role and again give my opinion on who would be the best lynch (mathcam). Then you think that either DS or Corsato is the right lynch. After DP makes a statement, you agree and go back to attack mathcam and tell him he has posted a load of crap (which just makes you look silly ). At that point, you think it's either mathcam or DS and you post that you're willing to go after DS (after DP and mathcam voted him). Only five hours later you did a re-read and you're back pointing at me. How many times have you changed your target by now? You're roleclaim is not an excuse anymore.

Can you understand (even just a little bit) that that frustrates me? If you're innocent, you're throwing away the game by trying to get me lynched. There really isn't a strong case against me, you just think you're onto something and are interpreting everything I posted the wrong way. There goes the good condition this town was in.

That's

why my reaction was pretty heated.

And you're trying way too hard with the whole "rubbing it in the face" thing. There was a smiley behind the initial sentense, you know! I never said I wasn't going to respond to you, I just said I wasn't going to continue the "rubbing it in" discussion, because you were being way to serious about it. And yes, everyone should consider you a possibility to be the last mafia when they find out I'm innocent. What's weird about that? If you manage to get an innocent player lynched, you become a suspect. That has always been the case, so I don't see why this would be a different matter.

Your claimed suspicion of me stems solely from the fact that I suspect you, nothing else. The facts & my gameplay support my innocence -- the same cannot be said of you.

Yes, and your claimed suspicion of me stems solely from the fact that I suspected you first. And you know what? My given opinion & gameplay today support my voting behaviour -- the same cannot be said about you. And your gameplay doesn't support your innocence, your roleclaim does. There's a difference, you know. And not a small one either.

And, if you were innocent, your attempt to set me up for the lynch tomorrow if you're to be lynched would be reckless AND contradictory when you apparently consider mathcam to be a bigger suspect than me today.

Please, MeMe. I did consider mathcam to be a bigger suspect (I do have an opinion that stays longer than like 5 hours, that's probably why I wasn't on any of the scum bandwagons). How can you compare the situation now with the situation after the lynch of an innocent? And I don't like how you're trying to blame me of bad play. This could be interpreted as trying to find an excuse to justify your vote on me if I turn out to be innocent.

One other thing:

Although claiming another invetigative role might not have been the best idea, he might have seen that he could play the "look how many there are, DS can't be backup."

Okay, this quote is enough reason for me to change my vote to DS. I've believed him to be innocent up until now. That's just pushing it. I never ever said anything like that, DS. For your information, I was one of the few, if not the only one who believed your claim. I never voted for you today. And now you're trying to make me look bad with

that

? Clear case of agreeing with the rest without knowing the details.

Unvote: mathcam
Vote: DS

[Phoebus]

Guess what...?!

1 Cadmium (MeMe)

2 Dragon Slayer (Cadmium, Dragon Phoenix )
2 mathcam (Corsato, Dragon Slayer)

1 not voting: mathcam

4 to lynch

[MeMe]

Couple things about your post, Cadmium.

--You say I've been on every bandwagon in the game. I will cop to being everywhere on day one: at the beginning of the day, I had to find a target on whom I could 1) be the first vote and 2) get bandwagon support so I could get my investigation. Once I found out DS was "innocent," I was doing my utmost to save him the rest of the day, which entailed switching where the wind blew because he was the one person (besides myself) I "knew" was innocent. Day 2, I voted for jeep then CB and stuck because I got a guilty investigation. Today...well, see below where I cover one of your later points.
--You say you immediately unvoted me because you can "clear" me...everyone

else

immediately stopped suspecting me because my gameplay lines up with my role claim.
--Saying mathcam's explanation looked like a load of crap doesn't "make [me] look silly" because it was true. Please note that Cam himself admitted that he could see that.
--You say you have opinions that last "more than 5 hours" (and, by implication, you're saying that mine change more often than that). You've voted for me, mathcam, and DS today. I've voted for mathcam (to get my investigation result...unvoted him as soon as I succeeded) and you.
--As for the rubbing my face thing...smileys don't mean anything to me. There're also smileys in your last post where you said that I've 1) been on every bandwagon and 2) looked silly for calling Cam's explanation crap. Smiley's aren't magical erasers that take your words away while you still get the pleasure of saying them, Cad. You answer for the words in the posts, not the icons. The fact remains that you said this...

No comment right now, I'll be having much more fun rubbing it in your face when the game's over .

And this...

Again I say, we'll talk when the game is over.

I didn't have to "try hard," -- they're your own words saying you'd rather wait to talk.
--You say that if someone "manages" to get an innocent player lynched they should be considered as mafia. "What's weird about that?" Well, I'll tell you. It cuts both ways -- if you "manage" to get DS lynched and he's innocent, you should be on deck. If you "manage" to get me lynched, you should be on deck tomorrow. See? It's just silly. If

anyone

gets lynched, it's a group decision. If the lynchee is innocent, everyone on the wagon could be considered a viable suspect...and everyone OFF it, too because they might have simply

known

the innocent was innocent and stayed clear for that reason. Your way made no sense except as a vain "anyone who thinks I'm guilty MUST be guilty"

threat

.
--Your last paragraph is the only one with which I semi-agree. DS and you are the two I consider the guiltiest-looking. If I can't have you, I'll go for DS.

[Dragon Slayer]

I never ever said anything like that, DS. For your information

But then again, he hasn't really stated much on the subject.

There ya go- I even said myself that you never said anything like that, I just figured I'd point it out anyway based on the small possibility that you never said anything because everyone else had. But like I said, you're not saying anything about it basically takes care of that. I considered taking that out of my post, but I felt including all possibilities wouldn't hurt, so excuse me.

And Cadmium's last post did a good job of convincing me that he's not the right choice today (until his last paragraph which just ticked me off). I still think we should lynch mathcam today. I may unvote, but I won't change to Cadmium or anyone else unless some startling revalation comes to play.

-DS