Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[GreyICE]

Find me one positive thing you said about anyone's play

Yeah

[implosion]

did anyone object to posting the scum QT?

[singersigner]

And people

still

disagree with policy lynches... *sigh*

[Gammagooey]

Find me one positive thing you said about anyone's play

Yeah

uh not gonna compliment peoples play in the middle of a game. thats weird and silly. It was really obviously not a personal vendetta at all, I didn't care much about who got lynched early game because twenty-nine people but considering that we almost lost to a neutral for playing too slowly i don't regret that at all. like i really don't think i would change anything about my play this game, getting lynches was like pulling teeth until we got a bunch of mostly misleading role info to go off of, i tried as hard as i could to get one of you/lld/benmage lynched day 3 and derail the wagons on ddd and UN i thought were probably on town, I don't know what else you're expecting here.

[Timeater]

uhh what

i played a beastly game

town only lost because nobody expected such a ridiculously easy scum wincon

[GreyICE]

Yeah we had to kill five players, you had to lynch 4 scum.

So easy

[Timeater]

[Glork]

like apparently the country cop was basically a real cop but not knowing that brings its usefulness down quite a lot.

Quite a lot?

Those are the only types of cops Vi has used so far to my knowledge.

Read Mafia with the Kitties and me as Flavor cop.

Glork + Tierce talking about the cop thing and Vi and the "Godfather" Hatari were pretty accurate.

Yeah, I pointed to TWO recent examples where "flavorful" cops were used as function regular cops with exactly one godfather -- INCLUDING a recent Vi-Game. And people poo-pooed it all over the place like "NO THERE ARE FOUR COPS AND LOTS OF FALSE POSITIVES/NEGATIVES." Meh.



Anyway, I want to apologize for the awful quality of my play over the last ~month especially. This moving business is seriously kicking my ass and draining me of the energy and focus to play mafia. I almost replaced out about half a dozen times (at one point I had even written up a PM to Vi, but never sent it)... but like Ludi, I decided I couldn't put another human being through that readthrough.

[Glork]

By the way, had ML been lynched today I was killing DDD tonight. If we lynched Ml before 2100 EST tomorrow I would have won even then.

Did you forget the part where you were getting roleblocked tonight?

[Timeater]

how do you think i died glork

[implosion]

meh here's the scum quicktopic

and glork, LLD was a strongman by the end of the game.

[Gammagooey]

fine alch you get a cookie or something for being one of the only people that paid attention to greyice. i tolddddddd you about toasty being town though. i told you man.

if town had KNOWN there were only 5 scum in the game then yeah there would obviously be a scum in the country cops. but i was assuming 6 for most of the game and 2 cops with 2-3 godfathers would still make sense balance-wise.

dear glork: what implosion said.

[GreyICE]

There really was only 4 scum in the game, since Shmugen auto-left it based on numbers.

It really was a very frantic race against the clock, for the scum and the town. The scum were underpowered, out gunned, and in trouble, while the town was facing deadline pressure and an uncertain clock themselves with the scum hitting roles.

I think the one thing we were really good at is outting people's role and country. By the end of the game there were four people from Soren's country claimed... and we knew the role names of three of them. That's pretty fucking impressive, if you ask me.

[Timeater]

the town didn't really know the stakes

all we had was an ambiguous colored number that was getting bigger. you can extrapolate various nebulous things from this but we had no where near the amount of information the scumhad on the setup to be competitive and this my biggest gripe about the whole affair. yes regfan was a wildcard (lol@reg playing like town, he cant help himself) but thats hardly an indicator for the game turning out the way it did

[implosion]

Well yeah, timeater.
That's why it's called mafia.
Informed minroity, uninformed majority.
Scum SHOULD have more info on the setup.

[Timeater]

just because its a large theme game doesn't mean it has to become a guessing game. would it REALLY have imbalanced the game SO MUCH if we were given SOME heads up about the NUMBER of targets concerning Miciah's Plan or SPECIFICALLY what it was all about? i dont think thats asking a whole lot. IMO players shouldn't have to concern themselves with the vagaries of a setup and should focus on the actual game of mafia, e.g scumhunting informed minority/uninformed majority, mister. scum already have more information by the very nature of being scum, duh.

[singersigner]

Anyway, I want to apologize for the awful quality of my play over the last ~month especially. This moving business is seriously kicking my ass and draining me of the energy and focus to play mafia. I almost replaced out about half a dozen times (at one point I had even written up a PM to Vi, but never sent it)... but like Ludi, I decided I couldn't put another human being through that readthrough.

Ditto.

I know I'm not a good player by any means, but there has to be something to forcing someone in my stead to read through the shit that's in this game. Quadz can vouch for me--nearly every time I saw how many new pages there were, I wanted to shoot myself. And then when people were telling me I should just replace out two days after coming back from V/LA...

I understand the concept of "if you're not going to play, replace out" but...at 80+ pages in, it was in town's best interest to stay in the game and push through it my way, as opposed to trying to

appease

everyone else's way of playing.

But seriously, there were too many Mastins and Glowballs in this game to make it in any way enjoyable.

[Timeater]

like im pretty sure most of the active town at the time of the endgame were blindsided by the scum victory and I bet they felt cheated

but hey whatever

c'est la vie

[implosion]

just because its a large theme game doesn't mean it has to become a guessing game. would it REALLY have imbalanced the game SO MUCH if we were given SOME heads up about the NUMBER of targets concerning Miciah's Plan or SPECIFICALLY what it was all about? i dont think thats asking a whole lot. IMO players shouldn't have to concern themselves with the vagaries of a setup and should focus on the actual game of mafia, e.g scumhunting informed minority/uninformed majority, mister. scum already have more information by the very nature of being scum, duh.

You were told specifically what it was about :S. That the scum had to kill a certain number of players. Those players not knowing who they were and the town not knowing how many there were is really not as mind-blowingly awful of a thing as you think - should the moderator let the town know how many scum there are in every game?

[Timeater]

in theme games? man, i wouldn't be averse to it

1. we didnt know how many
2. we didnt know who they were
3. those players didnt know if they were targets
4. the type of players (e.g what sort of flavor) was not hinted at
5. vi's personal interpretation of the flavor (sort of) was what determined the targets
6. i assume most people would have thought 6-8, not 5
7. the targets could be lynched too making it easier
8. etc so and so forth

you were scum and died early so you are a little biased mister

[GreyICE]

And you were town, so maybe you're a tad biased too. I mean you only accused me and LLD of cheating because... actually, why were we cheating anyway?

[Timeater]

uhh wat no i didnt

im just butthurt

[GreyICE]

Okay then. I honestly read it that way. Welp, sorry for misinterpreting you.

P.S. Me and LLD don't live together. We did know each other's alignments this game, and we did communicate outside the game thread day or night. I didn't communicate with her after I died - her entire defense was 100% her, and she did a damn good job of it. 1v1 she's better scum than me.

[Katsuki]

Too few targets imo given HOW overly uninformed town were in this game.

Hunting 5(4) scum in 29 players WITH A RACE AGAINST TIME is too much to ask for a town imo...
Scum have an incredible advantage in town not even knowing what the scum wincon exactly is... LLD proved that with her play in that LYLO, since from a town perspective, we probably all had that feeling that it was probably near LYLO, but most of us figured that we still had another day I think... I think it's greatly underestimated the power scum have when they can manipulate their play according to how town THINKS the setup is, to what is the actual setup.

Granted it's kind of bitter much like how town got auto-lossed in OOT Mafia because a mason made it into LYLO and got auto-hammered... but well.

I think it was missing something to help lead town the right way but well.

Long story short, the numbers definitely did not help town out because 29 players only serve to muddy the waters. 6 probably would've been a better number of targets for scum, any more is rather hard for scum.

Game ending once it hits 85 regardless of whether the 3P was alive or not is ehhhhhhhhh but well that didn't really matter this game.

I dunno but it seems like it would've been far more fun to be scum in this all things considered.
At least town played great in that so many of us were able to made out town to each other... I think townlists for players were mostly devoid of scum?



Thanks for modding Vi.

[implosion]

1. we didnt know how many
2. we didnt know who they were
3. those players didnt know if they were targets
4. the type of players (e.g what sort of flavor) was not hinted at
5. vi's personal interpretation of the flavor (sort of) was what determined the targets
6. i assume most people would have thought 6-8, not 5
7. the targets could be lynched too making it easier
8. etc so and so forth

And you were town, so maybe you're a tad biased too.

Some of these just don't make sense to give the town (i.e. how many, because why exactly would an army know how many people its opposing army is planning to assassinate). Others would significantly alter/compromise the game in some way or another if they were revealed (i.e., what sort of flavor; if the "type of character" were disclosed, it could affect the scums' ability to use fakeclaims like Ike). Targets being lynchable... is really by design :\. And i'm sure vi knew that and took it in to consideration with balance. Really, the whole "not knowing" thing is the fun part of being town - you aren't sure what exactly is going on, and try to figure it out. Sure, scumhunting can be part of it, but the theme/etc add an extra part to that.