Mini 579 - The Plagues of Egypt Mafia - Over

[hasdgfas]

springlullaby's post seems to come out of nowhere and she's giving lord_hur the full court press. It seems a bit contrived to me.

You do realize that springlullaby entered the game 3 days ago, right HH?

[HackerHuck]

springlullaby's post seems to come out of nowhere and she's giving lord_hur the full court press. It seems a bit contrived to me.

Quantify 'come out of nowhere'. Does it mean you don't agree with me? Contrived? What exactly are you implying?

I want a wagon on lord_hur now.

Can't really "quantify" out of nowhere. It just seems that you're coming on the attack very strong for having just replaced in. Given the tone of your initial post, the aggressiveness seems out of place and not genuine. I'm not commenting on the merits of your case, but I think that you're faking your emotional response. That is pretty scummy.

hasdfgas - I agree that my choice of words is probably not the best for a replacement, but I think my explanation should make it clear what I meant.

[Mr Stoofer]

@HackerHuck: The whole point of this game is to make cases against other players you find suspicious.

Why do you criticise anyone who makes a strong case against anyone else? Hoe do you propose we end this day (never mind the whole game) if people don't make cases against each other.

Really, this game is soooo slow and boring because so many people either won't make cases or criticise people who do. I'm tempted to join springlullaby's bandwagon on lord_hur because I just can't see this game ever ending any other way...

[lord_hur]

The sarcasm isn't doing you any grace, quantity doesn't equate to quality. Town do not do 'info gathering', town find suspicious people, press charges and judge - this is the meaning of 'coming with a case of your own'. Your vote on Harcker stinks, even more so because of your claim of being new.
1) You indicated that your vote was only half-heartfelt, why vote if you don't want to? Because people you know are town asked maybe?
2) If you are new, you probably don't know that a)not coming up with a case of your own b)being a people's pleaser c)leaving an exit door while casting a vote, are scumtell.

2a and 2c are bullshit, but 2b and 1 (which are the same thing) are indeed a scumtell that i noticed before. I can't really explain why I cast that vote. Brainfart I guess. Or maybe I was influenced by Mr Stoofer's experience.

I said a 'vague air of suspicion' and no, it is not the same as 1. Examples? Sure.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 78#1001978
This post stinks to high heaven, it is I believe totally artificial. A town mind doesn't come up with so many vaguely relevant questions addressed to so many people, it is more likely a post by a scum who want to look busy - especially since you don't seem to be garnering any insight in the game from the answers you got. Other examples abound, look at your own post history.

Oh hell yes it was completely artificial. I started thinking about a few questions, then thought "hey, why not one for every player, I never tried that, maybe I'll get some interesting reactions?". Sounded like a good idea back then, but it totally failed, as almost anyone ignored it. And yes, it ended up completely artificial.

Yes, and it is called playing the newbie card, justification of one's behavior which has been pointed out as scummy by invocation of alleged newbiness. And no, it certainly shouldn't save you any bashing, your newbie game was for something. Are you really not understanding this?

Oh, I'm understanding this, but I claim bullshit on it, because it can be applied to any newb. Instead of pointing to it, you should say what scumtell(s?) I was allegedly trying to cover.

On the whole, I hate your posting pattern. You asks many questions, opening leads all over the place, but never commit to any strong conviction yourself, nor do seem to follow a distinct direction - I think of the people who where pushing stuff around D1, you were the main culprit. I think you are scum.

Yes, I suck at this game. I can't believe it took me 5 games to figure it out.

@SeraphicMirth : did you do write down these notes before or after receiving your role PM ?

Noted.

You are seriously implying this was not a valid question? The answer completely changes the way you can use the analysis. If she wrote it before she got her role PM, it is unbiased, not if she did it after.

@others : keep in mind that it's pretty easy to find a few scumtells in that many posts, and she's having an easy time because no one can strike her back since she's replacing a ghost.

[lord_hur]

Translation to Lord_hur's defence: "I can't be scum because scum wouldn't be posting as much as I do"

I've seen it happen many times where scum carry a passive game and move it in the direction they want to go. It's a crap excuse, but I don't think you're experienced enough to take advantage of the town that way. I could however, see Mr Stoofer doing that.

springlullaby's post seems to come out of nowhere and she's giving lord_hur the full court press. It seems a bit contrived to me.

As to add to your 'i cant be scum' part of Lords post he spoke about the same amount in the last game we were in together, and there he was scum, he got by seeming not anti town but at the same time didn't do anything to make himself seem pro-town.

Did not do anything to look pro-town ? Damn, I thought I was doing a pretty good job at looking pro-town, doing almost all the scumpair probability analysis and bussing my pal for pretty solid reasons :/

[lord_hur]

Hmmm I didn't think about it earlier, but hasdgfas' last post just rang a bell. Let me tell you a little story :

Three days ago, I lost my first game, essentially because one scum (Danix) was never posting more than 2 posts a week (on good weeks... he got away with not posting for more than 2 weeks once...), and never more than 1 sentence, which never made any sense whatsoever. That he did not get lynched day 1 was beyond me, but one of the ICs made a couple of really bad moves (kinda like Guardian in this game), and the townies (and the scum that was actually playing) soon dropped him.
I (cop) easily investigated that scum (yay for craplogic users) and got him lynched. Right before (and I mean, the post before) night 2, Danix got replaced by someone with a - very good - brain (MichelSableHeart) who NKed me and easily convinced one of the 2 other newbs the other was scum.
Basically, he won partly (mostly?) because no one ever had a chance to get a reading on Danix.

Just saying that maybe town can't get a decent lead because (at least) one of the scum was out of the game or not posting much content.

[Mr Stoofer]

:arrow:

I will be away 23rd May - 2nd June.

[Singing Librarian]

Making cases is definitely good, as long as disagreeing with cases is also allowed. Obviously, I think the strongest case at the moment is the one on Musher33. I still can't make up my mind on TVOD, because I still find his early posts utterly incomprehensible. The case on lord_hur seems mostly based on newbieishness, it seems to me, and considering joining that bandwagon rather than pushing a case seems like a copout to me.

[HackerHuck]

@HackerHuck: The whole point of this game is to make cases against other players you find suspicious.

Why do you criticise anyone who makes a strong case against anyone else? Hoe do you propose we end this day (never mind the whole game) if people don't make cases against each other.

Really, this game is soooo slow and boring because so many people either won't make cases or criticise people who do. I'm tempted to join springlullaby's bandwagon on lord_hur because I just can't see this game ever ending any other way...

I'll restate this for you. I wasn't criticising the content or the fact that Springlullaby is suspicious of anyone. I called scummy the fact that the case seemed phony to me.

You're basically guilty of doing exactly what you accuse me of doing. I was making a case against Springlullaby and you say that I shouldn't be?

I really don't like how you're dismissing my case as if I've done something wrong. That also seems scummy to me.

[springlullaby]

The sarcasm isn't doing you any grace, quantity doesn't equate to quality. Town do not do 'info gathering', town find suspicious people, press charges and judge - this is the meaning of 'coming with a case of your own'. Your vote on Harcker stinks, even more so because of your claim of being new.
1) You indicated that your vote was only half-heartfelt, why vote if you don't want to? Because people you know are town asked maybe?
2) If you are new, you probably don't know that a)not coming up with a case of your own b)being a people's pleaser c)leaving an exit door while casting a vote, are scumtell.

2a and 2c are bullshit, but 2b and 1 (which are the same thing) are indeed a scumtell that i noticed before. I can't really explain why I cast that vote. Brainfart I guess. Or maybe I was influenced by Mr Stoofer's experience.

Do you really believe that 2a and 2c are BS? Why? Do you know what scumtell means?
More importantly, are you rejecting the responsibility of your own vote on Stoofer there?

I said a 'vague air of suspicion' and no, it is not the same as 1. Examples? Sure.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 78#1001978
This post stinks to high heaven, it is I believe totally artificial. A town mind doesn't come up with so many vaguely relevant questions addressed to so many people, it is more likely a post by a scum who want to look busy - especially since you don't seem to be garnering any insight in the game from the answers you got. Other examples abound, look at your own post history.

Oh hell yes it was completely artificial. I started thinking about a few questions, then thought "hey, why not one for every player, I never tried that, maybe I'll get some interesting reactions?". Sounded like a good idea back then, but it totally failed, as almost anyone ignored it. And yes, it ended up completely artificial.

Hm, are you agreeing with me that your post was artificial there? If you are being sarcastic, cut it out, it is not making you easier to understand.
And I'm not liking your answer there, town who have questions usually don't let them go unanswered, they press the matter because they are actually interested in the answers.

Yes, and it is called playing the newbie card, justification of one's behavior which has been pointed out as scummy by invocation of alleged newbiness. And no, it certainly shouldn't save you any bashing, your newbie game was for something. Are you really not understanding this?

Oh, I'm understanding this, but I claim bullshit on it, because it can be applied to any newb. Instead of pointing to it, you should say what scumtell(s?) I was allegedly trying to cover.

Lol, is this a start of an OMGUS I'm sensing? Tell me, are newbies automatically town? See first point of this post for the example you ask, were you or were you not trying to reject the responsibility of your vote on Stoofer's 'experience', implying that you are a misled newbie?

On the whole, I hate your posting pattern. You asks many questions, opening leads all over the place, but never commit to any strong conviction yourself, nor do seem to follow a distinct direction - I think of the people who where pushing stuff around D1, you were the main culprit. I think you are scum.

Yes, I suck at this game. I can't believe it took me 5 games to figure it out.

Is that an open admission of being scummy? What are you saying there exactly? Is that sarcasm again?

@SeraphicMirth : did you do write down these notes before or after receiving your role PM ?

Noted.

You are seriously implying this was not a valid question? The answer completely changes the way you can use the analysis. If she wrote it before she got her role PM, it is unbiased, not if she did it after.

For the motive you invoke to justify why you asked it, I can answer you clearly that no, I do not believe it is a valid question. Tell me, what is the point of mafia game? After you thought about that, answer me, do you seriously believe that there will be people who post game analysis and commit to a vote before they even read their PM?

Are you really that ... clueless?

@others : keep in mind that it's pretty easy to find a few scumtells in that many posts, and she's having an easy time because no one can strike her back since she's replacing a ghost.

Oh, poor little you, life is unfair isn't it?:roll: If you are town, don't whine, it's unbecoming.

To the point, what is the meaning of that paragraph? What it is you are reproaching me exactly there?

--------------------------------
Others thoughts in another post for clarity.

[springlullaby]

springlullaby's post seems to come out of nowhere and she's giving lord_hur the full court press. It seems a bit contrived to me.

Quantify 'come out of nowhere'. Does it mean you don't agree with me? Contrived? What exactly are you implying?

I want a wagon on lord_hur now.

Can't really "quantify" out of nowhere. It just seems that you're coming on the attack very strong for having just replaced in. Given the tone of your initial post, the aggressiveness seems out of place and not genuine. I'm not commenting on the merits of your case, but I think that you're faking your emotional response. That is pretty scummy.

I was PMSing, sue me.

That was a joke.

Hackerhuck, I can see what you are getting at but I'd prefer you criticize the content of my case and that you make clear your opinion on lord_hur.
What's phony in my case apart from the aggressiveness - which I can assure you is genuine?

------------------------------

I have reread the game a bit, other thoughts.

1) I'm amending what I said about Guardian, if I have no certainty still, I think now that him being scum make more sense than him being town: breadcrumbing cop may attract night kill, but it is also likely to attract doc protection, which make that type of play as miller vastly hazardous. I think Guardian would have thought of that. But that line of thought is still chancy.

2) Up till now Stoofer has done nothing which make me believe he is more scum than town.

3) I can see where the case on Musher is coming from, but I see my case on lor_hur as at least equivalently valid. So I'd like to ask everyone who have not commented to state what they think of lord_hur.

[lord_hur]

Things

- overaggressiveness
- insults
- heavy word twisting

I have no intention of replying to what she said, unless one of the other players shows interest in one (or more) of her insults/questions.

Part of her initial arguments (before it completely degenerated) was quite well backed up - more than my own case, I must admit - so I thought her as pretty town-like (though it's hard to judge on only one post).

But this one is seriously lower in quality. I now think there is a distinct possibility she is just pushing for a quick lynch.

[springlullaby]

Pushing for a quick lynch? Are you kidding me, I'm the only one voting you at the moment.

"overaggressiveness" I think my being agressive is a good thing. You haven't seen me "overaggressive" yet.

"insults" Where?

"heavy word twisting" Where?

And I think the quality of my posts has been constant, but I'll let people judge.

Also, does your last post means you think I am scum?

[HackerHuck]

Hackerhuck, I can see what you are getting at but I'd prefer you criticize the content of my case and that you make clear your opinion on lord_hur.
What's phony in my case apart from the aggressiveness - which I can assure you is genuine?

The implication of my post is that you are scum bussing your scumbuddy lord_hur. I believe you are faking anger/emotion at him being scummy. I'm not disagreeing with what you said, rather how you said it.

I could move this along with a

vote: Lord_hur

[Musher333]

Hackerhuck, I can see what you are getting at but I'd prefer you criticize the content of my case and that you make clear your opinion on lord_hur.
What's phony in my case apart from the aggressiveness - which I can assure you is genuine?

The implication of my post is that you are scum bussing your scumbuddy lord_hur. I believe you are faking anger/emotion at him being scummy. I'm not disagreeing with what you said, rather how you said it.

I could move this along with a

vote: Lord_hur

Ive got to agree with this, there seems to be just a lil over acting going on there.

[lord_hur]

Hackerhuck, I can see what you are getting at but I'd prefer you criticize the content of my case and that you make clear your opinion on lord_hur.
What's phony in my case apart from the aggressiveness - which I can assure you is genuine?

The implication of my post is that you are scum bussing your scumbuddy lord_hur. I believe you are faking anger/emotion at him being scummy. I'm not disagreeing with what you said, rather how you said it.

I could move this along with a

vote: Lord_hur

Ive got to agree with this, there seems to be just a lil over acting going on there.

Yes, as I've said already, I think there's a possibility that she's overacting, but the bussing part seems a bit far-fetched. I've never seen it done so aggressively and out of the blue, usually bussing scum kick a partner that is already down or at least in difficulty.

I also find it interesting that he voted for me and not for her, without an explanation on the choice.

[Singing Librarian]

Lord Hur is not scum. Calling parts of springlullaby's case BS (without any further elaboration) is not helpful, but it's a town overreaction rather than a scum lashing out.

Also, I completely disagree with springlullaby's point that town do not gather information. They most certainly do, and should do so, in order to build a case for or against others - if no questions were asked of other players, games would rarely get very far at all.

[lord_hur]

Calling parts of springlullaby's case BS (without any further elaboration) is not helpful

Alright, since I said I would answer questions if another player is interested in them, here goes :

1.building case of your own : I call BS on it because :
a. there are many factors that can lead to a townie not posting their case :
- he sucks and can't locate a scumtell for the life of him (this is partly my case)
- he does not like to vote for light reasons and prefers to have a very strong case against someone before committing to a vote (partly my case as well)
- in my last game, I withheld my quite heavy case (guilty result) because I wanted to stay unnoticed, and because I wanted to put another player I had strong doubts about, in front of the lead I followed, and see if he was going to follow it or try to protect his pal (posting this as a precise example so screechingharpy does not accuse me of role fishing or something ; you never know - also, this is done without prejudice of the possibility of me being cop in this game)

b. it is about as easy for scum (maybe even easier, as he knows for sure who he can attack), because scumtells are very subjective elements, and you can always find them if you twist what townies said enough. Best part is, as they are so subjective, scum are likely to get away with about anything. This game is so very mind-boggling at times.

2. leaving an exit door while voting : never heard about or noticed this one. Should scum want to backtrack and lash at another, more heavily laden with votes person, they just agree with others' opinions, or throw a few subjective scumtells for good measure, and switch. Townies would do it like that as well. There is no need for scum to "leave an exit door".

[lord_hur]

Btw SL, i can take care of my own defense, thank you. There are only 2 votes on me right now, both questionable (at various degrees). I do not feel in danger.

[HackerHuck]

I also find it interesting that he voted for me and not for her, without an explanation on the choice.

I could

move this along

with a

vote: Lord_hur

The implication being that a single vote on Springlullaby is not going to do as much as a second vote on Lord_Hur. That happens to be our only wagon at the moment now.

[springlullaby]

Lord Hur is not scum.

Do I see a soft claim?

I'm not liking your play Hacker.

Votecount please.

[lord_hur]

Nice role fishing there screechingharpy.

SL, I don't know what your intent is, but please remember this is a no-reveal game. If a person claims, he/she will not be confirmed. Everything he/she says will not be taken for sure pro-town talk, even after death. So (though based only on my reasoning, as it's my first no-reveal game) claiming is a lesser strategy than in normal games.

[lord_hur]

I'm not liking your play Hacker.

Votecount please.

What would be the point of doing this type of gambit at L-3, seriously ? Unless you're thinking your little play is going to get me lynched on the spot ? Because then I will take great delight in your disappointment.

screechingharpy, you should think a bit before jumping at the first hint of deceiving playstyle... Most people aren't as mentally twisted as you seem to be (I want to believe you're only playing a role).

[Singing Librarian]

Springlullaby and Lord Hur, I wasn't intending to claim anything, softly or otherwise. If I'm sure somebody is not scum, I will defend them, is all.

Musher continues to be very quiet.

As to Sephic's post i can't remember him saying something as down to the point as that, before this (as i have posted) it seemed like he was buddying with Guardian thinking he was cop but then found out he wasnt, i dont see the point in asking what somebody thought it meant when i replied saying i though this and this, before you asked....

I don't like this, as it is yet another example of him claiming not to have understood something. I thought the reasons Stoofer explained for suspecting and voting for Guardian were perfectly clear and yet it takes how many times before Musher333 suddenly 'understands' it and stops twisting the reasons?

[springlullaby]

Nice role fishing there screechingharpy.

SL, I don't know what your intent is, but please remember this is a no-reveal game. If a person claims, he/she will not be confirmed. Everything he/she says will not be taken for sure pro-town talk, even after death. So (though based only on my reasoning, as it's my first no-reveal game) claiming is a lesser strategy than in normal games.

If you think I was rolefishing and that it is scummy, why aren't you voting me? I can assure you that I take full responsibility for everything I post in this game.

What would be the point of doing this type of gambit at L-3, seriously ? Unless you're thinking your little play is going to get me lynched on the spot ? Because then I will take great delight in your disappointment.

What gambit? What are you even talking about? "Take great delight in your disappointment'? Wtf?

screechingharpy, you should think a bit before jumping at the first hint of deceiving playstyle... Most people aren't as mentally twisted as you seem to be (I want to believe you're only playing a role).

?????? Please evidence of my being 'mentally twisted'? When I see scummy playstyle, of course I point it out, why shouldn't I?

Lord_hur, I truly think your play stinks. What is the point of your last couple of posts, beside of calling me 'screechingharpy' that is?

@Singing Librarian - What is the point of info gathering for town if not to come up with cases? I say people who ask many question but who doesn't seem to garner any insight from the answers they got are likely to be scum wanting look busy, what do you say?

Why do you think Lord_hur is town? I see only scummy play from him.

hasdgfas, tvod, chime in please.