Micro 186: Vengeball (Game is over)

[Rift Adrift]

The thing is,

if you're town, and I'm town,

then MP5 can't be town. Unless you think a Rift/Seanald team is plausible? But at the same time, you've also done things that make me think you can't be scum. That's why I'm having such an issue with this.

Getting the bolded If's sorted is my priority.

We originally thought Seanald was GF. After the day 2 lynch results, it's all but impossible for him to be a GF.

[Cheery Dog]

Vote Count 3.1

Player	L-2 Vote	L-1 Vote	L-0 Vote (Hammer)
Klick
MP5
Rift Adrift
Seanald
Siveure DtTrikyp

Not Voting Siveure DtTrikyp MP5 Klick Rift Adrift Seanald

Deadline:

(expired on 2013-07-05 19:00:00)

forgot to update the actual votecount changes.

[Seanald]

Jason/Jake were both on rift, and seanald was massively in the camp with jake.

I want to look at jake/seanald's interactions.

Ok? and what will you get from that, you do know jake is dead because his GF was lynched right? therefore I can't be on his team.

I know your going to lie, but this strikes me as scum not paying close enough attention and fabricating something to do to make them look busy, I think you may have slipped here Siv.

unless you can explain your intention here.

VOTE: Siv

[Seanald]

just to clarify, I took that quote as you were going to try and Tie me and Jake together somehow, which would have been impossible.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Awww we lost stufffff

BAsically I was tying you and jake together b/c scum you wouldn't have done that.

[Rift Adrift]

I found some stuff in a forgotten browster tab. trying to copy it. Can't directly quote it because the thread pointers are all different now.

Exactly. There is NO way you are scum going with your buddy jake, and I doubt you as scum do that to someone not of your alignment.

Especially not as a GF.

Okaaaay. What I see is like seanald getting both of the scums' roles hilariously wrong and really not interacting with anyone else besides a bit with rift.

Jake didn't reply with town on seanald, so it's not buddying so I really do think seanald could be dumbtown.

I'm slightly worried that jk was goodscum and klick took over an easy slot.

Waitphew I didn't vote there yaaaay.

I felt like voting mp5, then changed my mind that should probably be rift getting voted b/c klick/mp5 not ditching the seanald wagon for rift is weird.

I'm probably in tunnelmode now anyway, so yeah I don't see the point in saving the vote longer.

VOTE: rift adrift

Why do you think you are in tunnel mode?

I've had nothing but stuff that doesn't lead to rift/mp5, in my last bunch of looks at the game so it's possible i've hit confbias and i really don't know what else to look at.

I've had nothing but stuff that doesn't lead to rift/mp5, in my last bunch of looks at the game so it's possible i've hit confbias and i really don't know what else to look at.

I am kinda waiting for Syr to be back online. I have a case for the identity of the other GF halfway fleshed out but need his thoughts and maybe a reality check.

Yesterday I was pretty concerned about being mislynched because even if we venged scum (and I was certain we would) town would still be in a pretty bad way at 2-2-1. Today, not so much. If we are lynched, I still think we'll hit scum and then day 4 should be 2-1 with a fairly obvious final scum.

^^ posted that bit as fferyllt and then quoted it as rift.

[Seanald]

and have you talked with Syr yet to make your case?

[Cheery Dog]

I'm assuming whatever I had saved in my excel spreadsheet is the correct votecount (and since I did see this thread before we lost the small amount of data, I believe it to be the case)

Vote Count 3.2

Player	L-2 Vote	L-1 Vote	L-0 Vote (Hammer)
Klick
MP5	Seanald
Rift Adrift
Seanald
Siveure DtTrikyp

Not Voting Siveure DtTrikyp MP5 Klick Rift Adrift


Deadline:

(expired on 2013-07-06 19:00:00)

Deadline is also hereby extended 1 day.

Also Informing Klick and MP5 the game is here again. (non-counted prod with 48 hour response time)

[Rift Adrift]

and have you talked with Syr yet to make your case?

We haven't talked in detail about this game yet, though he knows my questions. We should have a chance to work on it today now that there's a thread to iso again.

[Klick]

Oh hey. I was staring at the Fallout Shelter for forever xD

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Wait, um

VOTE: mp5

[Rift Adrift]

Hey Siv please unvote for a bit.

I just noticed that there are 4 columns in the vote table. With 5 players should it be 3? Or is there something unique to this game format re LYLO?

I don't think we're ready to have someone at L-1.

[Cheery Dog]

I just noticed that there are 4 columns in the vote table. With 5 players should it be 3? Or is there something unique to this game format re LYLO?

Vote Count 3.3

Player	L-2 Vote	L-1 Vote	L-0 Vote (Hammer)
Klick
MP5	Seanald	Siveure DtTrikyp
Rift Adrift
Seanald
Siveure DtTrikyp

Not Voting MP5 Klick Rift Adrift

Deadline:

(expired on 2013-07-06 19:00:00)

I just fail at editing stuff. It does of course only need 3 votes to lynch someone, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to get the godfather.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Hangon isn't seanald voting me?

[Cheery Dog]

Hangon isn't seanald voting me?

Only if I stuffed up my votecount when the site was down.

(I have votes counted from the crash in it I believe)

[MP5]

Checking back in.

I was going to post that I mostly agree with klick's premises in post 509, particularly that it's not a rift-seanald team (either way). From my POV, that means at least one scum out of (klick, Siv).

I also feel there is at least one scum between (Siv, seanald), as I don't have the humility to think I could be wrong on both rift and jk/klick, my ego says surely I'm right on at least one of them being town.

The one point I'm uncertain on is that it wasn't two town wagons yesterday on rift and seanald. He uses this to discount the possibility of it being me-Siv as a team, but should I sheep this logic it means I should in turn discount the possibility of a klick-Siv team. I do agree that this is a less likely probability, but I'm way of someone using logic and arguments that clear themselves to other people ...

Probability-wise, it seems I should be voting Siv, but based on play to now I really want to vote seanald.

Before I do, I should consider the possibility that if I'm hammered from here, who would you all like me to venge? Please vote for this now as it will also help my reads in piecing this together.

[Rift Adrift]

MP5, I am still waiting for some input from Syr on my case, but I'll give you the sparknotes. I think the scum team is klick/seanald. I think klick is the GF. If I were lynched today I would shoot among those two. Probably klick.

[Rift Adrift]

Would I really shoot klick? I dunno. I like a little shock and awe in mafia, but given that shooting doesn't remove the whole team, I might play it a little safer and go for seanald.

It would depend on if I thought the remaining town players would do the right thing the next day.

[Klick]

I'd like to hear how you came to that conclusion. I'm not in the best position to explain, but I think in particular the start of Day Three makes that scumteam very unlikely.

Could you post your case without Syr?

[MP5]

Trying to shoot klick would be like swinging and aiming for the fences - if it pays off, you've hit a home run; but if not, you're in trouble. He might be the gf, he's been bussing seanald hard though if your theory is right.

Seanald - are you voting me, or Siv?

Even if seanald has me as scum, I'd still feel more comfortable lynching him. If he is town and chose to venge me, then it's game over, but I don't want to embark upon a plan that relies upon the venge kill anyway. I'd rather hit who I feel to be the best lynch, and hopefully end it here or give ourselves two chances at the remaining scum.

VOTE: seanald

[Rift Adrift]

I'd like to hear how you came to that conclusion. I'm not in the best position to explain,

but I think in particular the start of Day Three makes that scumteam very unlikely

.

Could you post your case without Syr?

What do you mean by "the start of Day Three"?

[Klick]

The part where I kinda voted him right off the bat, when he was very vulnerable to being lynched. Even if I was a GF and he was a Goon, that would be a terrible time to bus, especially since it doesn't really gain anything.

[Rift Adrift]

I'd like to hear how you came to that conclusion. I'm not in the best position to explain, but I think in particular the start of Day Three makes that scumteam very unlikely.

Could you post your case without Syr?

Why is Klick scum? It's a combination of many things; POE, changing reads on Siv, interactions with Seanald, other question marks here or there. YesterDay, I believed the scumteam to be Seanald/Siv, but after seeing events unfold I no longer believe Siv is scum. Seeing his attempts to figure out the game, setup spec really changed my mind about him. He also passed what I refer to as the "fuzzybutternut test", which essentially says "if a person genuinely comes up with and pushes something so batshit insane that no normal human being would ever give credence to, then town." He passed that one before the tigers ate the thread, with his ridiculous "tying Jake to Seanald" idea. It was retarded, granted. But Siv genuinely

believed

it. That much was obvious.

Anyroad, Siv-town. That leaves MP5 and Klick (not counting Seanald, he's been and is a cheeky lil scumfuck). MP5, as fery has already explained, is our top townread. Klick is, therefore, scum by POE.

However, POE isn't the primary reason we're scumreading Klick, either. One of the primary problems I had that set off alarm bells with Klick was the interaction with Seanald, quotes as follows:

Seanald, care to explain where you've been and what you've been doing this game?

sure, been busy with work, and I've been fucking reads up this game that's what. I didn't think jason would flip GF, that was a little surprising I don't know why he thought it was a good idea to play the way he did as a GF, I bet Jake is mad at him lol.

considering that is 1 whole scum team gone now, it opens everyone up to suspicion I think, except Rift. That wagon I think clears you rift and I was probably being a bit OMGUSy with my vote on you.

MP5 could easily be another scum, he hasn't been around much at all and put him self in a nice spot.

How does the wagon clear Rift?

I'm trying to assemble my thoughts. If MP5 is scum, it makes things a lot simpler, but I really doubt he is.

The quote wall begins with Seanald's first post since the JasonWazza scumflip. In it he says quite a few alignment null things (e.g. been working, didn't expect JasonGF) and a few not-so-null things (bashing Jason's "bad GF play", appeases the hell out of the Rift slot by saying the wagon clears us and apologizing for his OMGUS'y vote on us). He then proceeds to accuse MP5 of being scum for lurking and "putting himself in a nice spot". Pot calling the kettle black on the first point and no clue what the second point means, but that's neither here nor there.

Klick's response to this rather shady post is most illuminating. Rather than calling Seanald out on the buddying or the arbitrary MP5 scumread, he concentrates on the inane detail of "why is Rift cleared?" Setting aside for the moment the debate on whether or not concentrating on whether someone is cleared or not is scummy, why does Klick, when questioning someone whom he had a scumread on almost since he replaced in, ignore the blatantly scummy things in Seanald's post? Let's set that aside for the moment as well, and analyze Seanald's response to why Rift is confirmed town.

I guess it doesn't confirm him, and it does bring up a good question in my mind which would change some things.

Rift, how do you feel about Siv buddying you? because in my mind you two have kind of tied your selves together, which would make sense as a scum team cuz Siv just would not vote you if his life depended on it, which reaks of him being fearful of lynching his godfather.

Interesting. Seanald, when confronted on his attempt to appease us (note that Klick doesn't realize it's appeasement, just that it's weird for us to be confirmed town), immediately backs off his statement, does a 180, and attacks Siv and us. So he dodges explaining anything w.r.t. Klick's question and deflects with an attack on Siv/Rift, calling Siv's treatment of us "buddying" and that Siv's refusal to vote us is indicative of "him being fearful of lynching his godfather". Ironic coming from Seanald, since he was

also

at L-1 yesterDay when Siv was refusing to hammer. It's a question dodge and a pretty transparent attempt to deflect suspicion onto Siv/us. What does Klick make of this?

Hmm.

UNVOTE:

Starting to consider the possibility that Seanald is town. The only partner I can see for him at this point is MP5.

Do

what

. Far from catching onto the blatant deflections/fallacies/scummy things Seanald has been saying, Klick

clears him as town

? What the absolute fuck is this? Klick voted Seanald on Day 2, sat his vote there all Day until the Jason-lightning-counterwagon showed up, then immediately parked his vote back on Seanald at the start of Day 3. This is what made me realize Klick is scum; because his scumread (and vote) on Seanald were entirely for show. Look at what Klick had to say about Seanald before this exchange:

Spoiler: Things Klick said about Seanald

Lets lynch Seanald after Jason, if we can.

In other news, We have two incredibly obvious scum in Jason and Seanald that I haven't heard any comments about. On the Jason thing, at least - there are at least votes on Seanald.

Didn't catch where you said Jason, but okay.

VOTE: Seanald

I'd much rather lynch the GF than a goon, but a goon is better than a townie.

what was the point of asking that?

You should vote Seanald. He's at least not town.

Except I (and I'm pretty sure others) think they're town, while no one thinks Seanald is town.

Honestly, I'm ready for this day to be over with. Jason, Seanald, or Jake - I'm pretty sure all three are scum.

Success.

VOTE: Seanald

Anyone really. I have no clue as to the GF, because you, MP5, and Siv have all been town reads at some point. I guess my best shot would be between you and Siv.

PEdit: Why doesn't Rift/Seanald make sense?

As you can see, of the 28 posts Klick made up to the point of the Seanald/Klick exchange, roughly a third of them express a very strong scumread in Seanald. It's pretty blatantly obvious why I believe that Klick's rapid 180 on Seanald is a load of garbage.

"But Syr", you ask, "Klick had his vote on Seanald all Day 2, do you really think they're scum together?" Yep. While Seanald was being a scummy little lurkfuck, Klick didn't have a problem bussing him for towncred. However, as soon as Seanald stops lurking and starts to provide content that Klick finds even marginally acceptable he drops the scumread and begins to work as a team with his partner again.

"Why do you think Klick is the GF?" VCA, primarily. I sincerely doubt scum-Klick (or scum-anybody for that matter) would leave his GF at L-1 for the better part of a Day at risk of losing the game.

VOTE: Klick

Pedit: That is the WIFOMiest WIFOM of all WIFOM. Thanks for confirming scum.

[Klick]

I'm on my phone, but in very short response to your case: Seanald's play

looks

scummy, and that's where your whole thing falls apart. In a similar way that you townread Siv, I have a "too scummy to be scum" read on Seanald.

[Cheery Dog]

bummp