Mini 734 - GrimMafia - OVER

[Looker]

gracias

[Beyond_Birthday]

Alright, no matter the outcome, I'm not counting this game in my stats on account of townsuck and mod failure.

Vote Beyond_Birthday

For "not wanting to anger the mod". Only scum would care about not ending a game that sucks so much.

*assumes this is a joke since I still like Spring at the moment.*

Also, see my scum loss below? That was from the most anti mafia game I've ever played in which I was mafia. I think its about to finish up, but it was really complete bs, still, I don't quit. I really don't...

@Looker: I'm feeling Pablo.


However, the idea Zach presented of Setael/Ecto + Spring was interesting. Just, Spring's play looks like frustrated townie more than anything, and Ecto never struck me as scummy. But if one is scum, I can kind of see the other being, more so with Spring scum. I don't think Setael scum necessarily indicates Spring scum. I dunno, need more time to think on this.

[Looker]

hmm...odd...i was kind of feeling a setael n zach, but i guess that's the benefit of other opinions. i'll go back and do some more reading.

[Zachrulez]

To back up my gut feeling, I've had a quick skim through of the game.

I noticed that a lot was made about what Nuwen called my fluffy exchange with Spring, that came to be part of her scum pairing theory.

I also noticed that before that happened, Spring and Ecto were actually squabbling quite a bit. Their squabbling seemed to come to quite the peaceful conclusion around page 6... and since then... nothing.

I smell a fake fight.

It was that bad feeling that I just couldn't quite put my finger on until I had a re-read of the game and some better insight onto what was going on.

And now Seteal makes a big case against Pablo. But the most striking thing about the case isn't actually anything that's in it against Pablo, it's the fact that she has me 4th on her scumlist, stating that she definitely sees the possibility of me being paired with Spring as scum.

So my theory at this point in time is that after Setael gets her Pablo mislynch, her next likely move was going to be to argue my guilt by association. Pushing for MY lynch, and not Spring's, where with 8 people left today, a mislynch tomorrow almost certainly means the end of the game for town.

And so my vote stays right where it is, on Spring.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Okay Zach, so if Setael is after a mislynch, how does that incriminate Spring? Or, are you arguing Spring with Setael? If so, how would you clear yourself with Spring's mafia association (I use this as, since your voting her, I assume you think Spring is mafia.)?

[Zachrulez]

Okay Zach, so if Setael is after a mislynch, how does that incriminate Spring? Or, are you arguing Spring with Setael? If so, how would you clear yourself with Spring's mafia association (I use this as, since your voting her, I assume you think Spring is mafia.)?

I'm more convinced that Spring is scum than I am Setael. I think there's a good chance they are scum together though.

I can't clear myself, that's the point. That's why I suspect them.

I'm less interested in clearing myself than I am lynching scum.

[Zachrulez]

Okay Zach, so if Setael is after a mislynch, how does that incriminate Spring? Or, are you arguing Spring with Setael? If so, how would you clear yourself with Spring's mafia association (I use this as, since your voting her, I assume you think Spring is mafia.)?

I'm more convinced that Spring is scum than I am Setael. I think there's a good chance they are scum together though.

I can't clear myself, that's the point. That's why I suspect them.

I'm less interested in clearing myself than I am lynching scum.

It occurs to me that a better way to say this is that I am more interested in lynching scum than I am clearing myself... either way, I'm trying to say the same thing.

[Looker]

Okay Zach, so if Setael is after a mislynch, how does that incriminate Spring? Or, are you arguing Spring with Setael? If so, how would you clear yourself with Spring's mafia association (I use this as, since your voting her, I assume you think Spring is mafia.)?

I'm more convinced that Spring is scum than I am Setael. I think there's a good chance they are scum together though.

I can't clear myself, that's the point. That's why I suspect them.

I'm less interested in clearing myself than I am lynching scum.

Nice catch. But anyway, still reading and still feeling Setael more than Spring. Coming with some substance later on, until then

vote: Setael

[Setael]

Pablo - you entirely avoided addressing my post and instead just talked about spring. Laziness is not acceptable defense for blatant scumminess. You weren't lurking. Instead you were trying to stay off the radar. How is avoiding to state suspicion of players lazy?

Looker - Spring. I don't, however, find it likely that pablo's last post was distancing. It seems once again like an attempt to focus the attention off himself and I don't think he'd choose a scum buddy to throw it on. Likely it's one of them but not both.

Zach - why is nothing striking about my pablo case? I feel like you're trying to wave it away with a flick of your wrist. Do you disagree with the scumminess I pointed out? Do you think all the scummy things I listed can be explained away with "I was lazy."?

Your last post is full of fail. Feels like a gambit to prevent me from ever pressuring you. If I do you can yell "I called it! Look she's going after me and not spring!" My suspicion of pablo is independent of spring's play anyway, so I don't really see how you're drawing your conclusions.

Those who have listed me as possible scum - please provide logical reasoning or evidence of some kind. The only one who made an attempt was zach with his ecto/sprng fake fight theory (an argument that was, ironically, applied to him re: the "ask nicer" debacle.) so I guess if I was ecto I could say "touché" but as it is I just say "Meh."

[Looker]

Alright, no matter the outcome, I'm not counting this game in my stats on account of townsuck and mod failure.

Vote Beyond_Birthday

For "not wanting to anger the mod". Only scum would care about not ending a game that sucks so much.

I'm wanting to agree with this post and place a vote on you; however, I doubt it's more because I think you're scum than simply my willingness for something to happen. I can understand how one could easily get bored, but I don't understand whether this would count as a

FOS Spring

. Either way, I'm trying

[Zachrulez]

Zach - why is nothing striking about my pablo case? I feel like you're trying to wave it away with a flick of your wrist. Do you disagree with the scumminess I pointed out? Do you think all the scummy things I listed can be explained away with "I was lazy."?

Your last post is full of fail. Feels like a gambit to prevent me from ever pressuring you. If I do you can yell "I called it! Look she's going after me and not spring!" My suspicion of pablo is independent of spring's play anyway, so I don't really see how you're drawing your conclusions.

Those who have listed me as possible scum - please provide logical reasoning or evidence of some kind. The only one who made an attempt was zach with his ecto/sprng fake fight theory (an argument that was, ironically, applied to him re: the "ask nicer" debacle.) so I guess if I was ecto I could say "touché" but as it is I just say "Meh."

I will look at Pablo's actions myself as I see fit. He hasn't really been all that high on my scumlist all game, and your big case on him isn't going to suddenly change that.

Since you did find a lot worth mentioning about him, and there's a chance, however small that I might be wrong about you and you might actually be town. I'll give the case a look, reread the game, and form my own opinion of Pablo.

I'm not trying to wave it away with a flick of a wrist as much as I'm not all that willing to simply take your opinion as gospel.

[Zachrulez]

Also another thing to be aware of is that there are 8 players left.

If there are in fact 3 scum, we are in lylo.

[Looker]

::was headed to do some reading, saw the above post, and about faced to the wiki::

Gotta figure out yet another acronym

[Beyond_Birthday]

Okay Zach, so if Setael is after a mislynch, how does that incriminate Spring? Or, are you arguing Spring with Setael? If so, how would you clear yourself with Spring's mafia association (I use this as, since your voting her, I assume you think Spring is mafia.)?

I'm more convinced that Spring is scum than I am Setael. I think there's a good chance they are scum together though.

I can't clear myself, that's the point. That's why I suspect them.

I'm less interested in clearing myself than I am lynching scum.

Flawless. Zach isn't scum.

So, this moves on to his case on Spring which isn't bad:

Unvote (was I voting? Too lazy to look); Vote Springlullaby

I am going to look into Spring's play day 1, yesterday, and going to contemplate on Spring's play today. I like Zach very much right now, his percent just got cut in half actually.

Before my next post:

We're in "mylo" Mislynch and lose.

Lylo=lynch OR lose. ... unless you mean it is lynch and lose, which isn't necessarily true.

I personally think both these phrases are stupid, but I see it often enough to know to what it is referring.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Okay reread, gonna unvote: (and I skim, in depth reading isn't my thing.)

unvote

Alright, upon rereading:

Day 1: I dunno. She looks really town, but I can almost see scum playing this way. Hm... her confortability around the beginning looks very town, but it could be scum confidence that town wouldn't dare lynch anyone, and if they did, as per her argument, I, among others, would probably hang the offenders. So, hm... I see this as very "either way," but I get an overall vague town read.

Day 2: Her deflection of a rather weak, pathetic argument from Zwetchenwasser could truly go either way, but the play overall needs to be chalked up to town play there. I mean, look at it. She even keeps her focus on Nuwen "associating her name with [Ectomancer's]." It looks like very strong town play or superb scum play.

Day 3: I think this is a frustrated...whatever she is. I could see scum or town acting this way, and her comment (while voting me for a rather ridiculous reason) could be cover up for her OR genuine town play. (I read tones and such, but this could be a façade, I must admit.)

Although I feel her play today has been absolute crap, her record stands by her side, hence my unvote.

Still, I like Zach response. So, I'm going to be assuming scum out of...

Madame-fobs-hero
Looker
Setael
Wolfblitzer
Pablo Molinero

I'm king of thinking Wolf or Pablo is scum, but *if* I were to assume Spring is correct in her theory that unreplaced lurkers are scum, then that would leave:
Hero, Looker, and Setael as scum.

Among them, Setael has looked fairly protown (ie, Ecto has looked fairly protown) and leaves me no real reason to suspect him. Hero struck me funny, but for what reason, I can't recall. May have been an oddity and not scummy. I need to reread him and is formers. As for Looker: I don't think today's has been awkward or scummy in my view.

Which means: Maybe there is only one active mafia member and one or both of the lurkers are mafia with him (with only one kill, I'm guessing no serial killer). I can almost imagine the mafia member thinking he could win easily with two lurkers because they won't attract attention, but this is most definitely farfetched.

End of subject is:

I need opinions on these ideas. ITS HOW I FUNCTION, TOWN! HELP ME HELP YOU!! <--- is making fun of the town that seems pretty dead until replacements replace in.

[Zachrulez]

Beyond_Birthday

What do you think of Spring's sudden desire to lurker hunt given that the fact that the dangerous situation that the town is in may not immediately have been known?

Keep in mind here that if she is scum, and Sipylus/Looker is innocent, (and she is aware of this.) it would be a potentially winning play.

[Zachrulez]

Zach - why is nothing striking about my pablo case? I feel like you're trying to wave it away with a flick of your wrist. Do you disagree with the scumminess I pointed out? Do you think all the scummy things I listed can be explained away with "I was lazy."?

Your last post is full of fail. Feels like a gambit to prevent me from ever pressuring you. If I do you can yell "I called it! Look she's going after me and not spring!" My suspicion of pablo is independent of spring's play anyway, so I don't really see how you're drawing your conclusions.

Those who have listed me as possible scum - please provide logical reasoning or evidence of some kind. The only one who made an attempt was zach with his ecto/sprng fake fight theory (an argument that was, ironically, applied to him re: the "ask nicer" debacle.) so I guess if I was ecto I could say "touché" but as it is I just say "Meh."

I will look at Pablo's actions myself as I see fit.

He hasn't really been all that high on my scumlist all game, and your big case on him isn't going to suddenly change that.

Since you did find a lot worth mentioning about him, and there's a chance, however small that I might be wrong about you and you might actually be town. I'll give the case a look, reread the game, and form my own opinion of Pablo.

I'm not trying to wave it away with a flick of a wrist as much as I'm not all that willing to simply take your opinion as gospel.

Ok... I lied. I decided to give your case another look, and actually checked his posts to verify the things you pointed out...

Wow...

He responds to this by pointing out that Spring has pretty much done the same things.

So the question I have for you is why you consider Spring is much less scummy than Pablo? I don't really see much that has set their play apart other than their personalities.

But yeah... I think Pablo's going to have to give us a better defense than "Spring did it too."

I also think him saying that it's scummy to stir things up, and then blatantly avoiding stirring anything up is one thing that can't just be waived away by asserting lazy play...

Throwing suspicion on people who are voting on the bandwagon he's about to join looks pretty bad too.

Unvote, Vote: Pablo Molinero

This is definitely where the pressure should be right now.

And his responses better be damn good...

What a difference fully reading a case and analyzing a player makes...

[Beyond_Birthday]

Beyond_Birthday

What do you think of Spring's sudden desire to lurker hunt given that the fact that the dangerous situation that the town is in may not immediately have been known?

Keep in mind here that if she is scum, and Sipylus/Looker is innocent, (and she is aware of this.) it would be a potentially winning play.

Okay, okay: Granted. I would agree with you, however, ONLY if spring had voted for one of the lurkers and kept it there. She is, instead, voting me which forces me to think she is playing irrationally irregardless of her role.

[Looker]

@Pablo: I know you FOS'd Spring, but why no vote? Is there no one that you'd want to put your vote on? It's not like one vote on someone is going to get them lynched and it'd be a great opportunity for you to express your opinion...or to make an appearance, either way, dude, it's on you...

[Grimmy]

Votes

Pablo

Seteal
Zach

Seteal

Looker

Beyond Birthday

Spring

Update

Still looking for two more replacements.
No volunteers from the weekend.

Grimmy

[Pablo Molinero]

The idea is that when half the town is guilty of some of the things I'm accused of (and it WAS bad play, I'm not denying it), tunneling in on one does little good, particularly when spring's transgressions are a bit less forgivable than mine. Why *just* the FoS? I wanted to see more current stuff on this line of thinking before I throw out my vote.

[Zachrulez]

How are Spring's transgressions less forgivable?

[Setael]

Who is this "half the town" and what have they done specifically? Your generalizations do not suffice.

[Pablo Molinero]

Dammit, post eaten by a power outage.

It consisted mostly of this: awkward wording in that last post of mine, but the point of spring stands. While my play has been poor/scummy (and I'm not denying it, even) hers has done that and then some with her peculiar playstyle and inconsistencies in rallying for a lynch JereIC, then saying it doesn't matter so much to her who gets lynched from the two (expressing a desire to just get someone lynched, a dangerous proposition), to throwing up her hands at Zero, but then washing her hands of it on day 2 and coasting the rest of the way to zwet's lynch. "Half the town" is spring, myself, BB, and Ecto, as I said earlier.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Hm...

*Shakes head*
I'm having a hard time reading your slammed paragraph Pablo, but I think I get the jist of what you're saying. So, can someone make a case on Spring (eg, Pablo or Zachrulez) because I analyzed her play and came up town. Both of you are suggesting she's scum, but not providing cases. (Zach, this less applies to you, but I mention you in particular because you haven't really tried swaying me from my position. If you think you have scum, I'd like to be swayed if you're town. You're hesitance makes it seem like you're not so sure, and if this is the case, which I think your vote on Pablo indicates, I'd like you to say so.)

...
I just realize that my note to Zach is the same size as my point...
weird...
*Sighs*
Okay, it's time for this:

Mod: Spring may need a prod and probably a replacement considering her attitude in leaving the game.