Election! | GAME OVER

[kdowns]

I really don’t care that much to put much effort into this. The person who I think is most likely to flip Scum is going to be Ali.

I’ve stated this in the past about things they’ve done that have rubbed me the wrong way. I also don’t like how they were always rushing through phases and especially the quick hammer on Furiative.

[Alisae]

I also don’t like how they were always rushing through phases

this is blatantly untrue.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD I think you’re reading into kdowns disengagement as scum indicative of the people you’re suspicious of erroneously. Like, the anti spew bit makes sense, but it being because there’s no alternative to push for kinda doesn’t. If it’s kdowns Ali uno, for example, kdownsscum doesn’t want to risk the 1v1 with me or skrew despite the other potentially being swayed, because if he loses the 1v1 suddenly there’s a potential miselim that’s much harder to pull off.

so to be clear your argument is... "it's Kdowns, but it's not me"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

GL, I want to give you space to do more posting and work with you to try and come to a bit of a thought built consensus by the end of today since one of us is dying tonight almost assuredly, but I'm also feeling the drain of this day going on too long and worry about players WIM come tomorrow if we drag this out too long and people give even less of a shit.

Do you have time tonight or tomorrow to talk and work shit out with me?

[Bingle]

so to be clear your argument is... "it's Kdowns, but it's not me"

I mean, you say this, but the answer to it is kind of yes.

In your game state world (town gl, town lld, town ali) there’s a cut and dry answer as to the scumteam, but I don’t know that it’s right yet. At the risk of undermining my ability to win a 1v1 tomorrow, I’m not entirely convinced gl is town, for example. If Ali and gl are both scum, GL coming in assuming the guilty on his buddy and then slowly letting me talk him around when the lim doesn’t happen makes a lot of sense, as does the protection offered today. Playing last night pro town isn’t all that much of a stretch to me either, given that all scum gl needs to do here to win is be towny. He wins pretty much every 1v1 as far as gamestate reads go, and mechanically that’s all we can get at this point.

For today, it just doesn’t make sense for me to try to shake up consensus on me scum in any big way because while I know it’s wrong I’ll have a much better shot at not losing the game doing so if someone has a result giving us even that tiny bit of information to help sway beliefs, and I’m not actively losing the game by waiting til tomorrow to litigate my towniness and fight a rough 1v1 especially when I don’t even really know if it’d be the right pick for a 1v1.

Your analysis of kdowns not having that same luxury, knowing that as town he loses if he gets eliminated is 100% accurate, and if he were town I expect he would have at least tried to shift the wagon onto whichever of me or skrew he thought was scummier because that way he has a chance at not just losing the game, but that just didn’t happen.

[UNOwen]

In your game state world (town gl, town lld, town ali) there’s a cut and dry answer as to the scumteam, but I don’t know that it’s right yet. At the risk of undermining my ability to win a 1v1 tomorrow, I’m not entirely convinced gl is town, for example. If Ali and gl are both scum, GL coming in assuming the guilty on his buddy and then slowly letting me talk him around when the lim doesn’t happen makes a lot of sense, as does the protection offered today.

Does this seem plausible to you if kdowns is also scum?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

gahhh sorry for my absence but I am here now and ready to play a lil bit on lunch break, and then definitely gonna give this game some attention tonight

quoting you to ping you for the sake of talking to you about everything before we move on.

[SleepyKrew]

VOTE: kdowns

I’m in no rush to end the day. Want to make sure LLD and GL have their talk. But I need to do

something

and this is a lot easier than the other options

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Checking in to say I won't be voting until I talk to GL, and also for ELO proceedure as a townie etc.

[GuiltyLion]

GL, I want to give you space to do more posting and work with you to try and come to a bit of a thought built consensus by the end of today since one of us is dying tonight almost assuredly, but I'm also feeling the drain of this day going on too long and worry about players WIM come tomorrow if we drag this out too long and people give even less of a shit.

Do you have time tonight or tomorrow to talk and work shit out with me?

hey yeah, sorry this week has just been hectic for me personally, tbh tomorrow would be the day I am most free, I'm going to a hockey game with a buddy tonight, but I respect not wanting people's WIM to crash it already feels pretty low right now

when are you going to be around? I'm gonna be busy like 5:30-10:00 PST today but I'll try to be active/present before then and late tonight if I can pull it off this time. last night got away from me

[GuiltyLion]

If Ali and gl are both scum, GL coming in assuming the guilty on his buddy and then slowly letting me talk him around when the lim doesn’t happen makes a lot of sense, as does the protection offered today.

this presumes that scum!me would know that you are going to talk me down though, right? like I would have no way of knowing ahead of time whether town would let me dunk on Ali or not, and frankly if I was ok with or actively planning to bus Ali yesterDay why would I not still be okay with that now?

I'm not sure what to make of you coming at me like this, I feel like if I were town in your position I'd be a lot more paranoid of UNOwen but you don't seem worried about that at all?

also, what's your view on Ali in general, it's not really clear to me from this post. Like your argument for me being scum is written predicated on Ali being scum, but you don't seem super certain that you think Ali is scum

[Lady Lambdadelta]

GL, I want to give you space to do more posting and work with you to try and come to a bit of a thought built consensus by the end of today since one of us is dying tonight almost assuredly, but I'm also feeling the drain of this day going on too long and worry about players WIM come tomorrow if we drag this out too long and people give even less of a shit.

Do you have time tonight or tomorrow to talk and work shit out with me?

hey yeah, sorry this week has just been hectic for me personally, tbh tomorrow would be the day I am most free, I'm going to a hockey game with a buddy tonight, but I respect not wanting people's WIM to crash it already feels pretty low right now

when are you going to be around? I'm gonna be busy like 5:30-10:00 PST today but I'll try to be active/present before then and late tonight if I can pull it off this time. last night got away from me

I'm here now if you're here now for a bit?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also fuck yeah b'y! Whose playing?

[GuiltyLion]

yeah, I am around! I still want to skim through D2/D3 thinking Ali town and check to see if things make sense, my memory of early/mid game is a bit too fuzzy for me feeling comfortable with a total solve, but yeah happy to chat in real time

I'm going to the Kraken game tonight, Vegas Golden Knights are in town and my buddy is a fan so we're gonna go and root against each other should be a blast

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yeah, I am around! I still want to skim through D2/D3 thinking Ali town and check to see if things make sense, my memory of early/mid game is a bit too fuzzy for me feeling comfortable with a total solve, but yeah happy to chat in real time

I'm going to the Kraken game tonight, Vegas Golden Knights are in town and my buddy is a fan so we're gonna go and root against each other should be a blast

I FORGOT WE BOTH LIVED IN SEATTLE B'Y

FUCK ME

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lmfao

let's go to a kraken game some time ye?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Anyway, I have been looking over earlier day interactions and I feel pretty comfortable with Ali town because of the Xof wagon.

I just don't see Ali positioning eirself around that wagon the way e did if e is scum.

Also, I know people have been like "actually Datisi looks town on a review" and I'm kind of... unable to tell that? Datisi looks scummy to me sort of no matter what in early days, especially coming off of HotD. But I DO think that Datisi going for Cop day 1 after HotD with me IN THE GAME AGAIN is... it's too bold, tbh.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Right now I'm trying to decide who among Bingle/SK/UNowen is scum

[GuiltyLion]

lmfao

let's go to a kraken game some time ye?

I'd be down I've only been to a few but I live basically right down the street from Climate Pledge so I really should go more often!

Anyway, I have been looking over earlier day interactions and I feel pretty comfortable with Ali town because of the Xof wagon.

I just don't see Ali positioning eirself around that wagon the way e did if e is scum.

Also, I know people have been like "actually Datisi looks town on a review" and I'm kind of... unable to tell that? Datisi looks scummy to me sort of no matter what in early days, especially coming off of HotD. But I DO think that Datisi going for Cop day 1 after HotD with me IN THE GAME AGAIN is... it's too bold, tbh.

for me I felt Datisi's treatment of me feels more genuinely suspicious and like he wanted to figure me out moreso than something aimed to get me to townread him. I think scum!Tisi is usually a bit more pocket-y towards me than he was here - that's not infallible I have mistakenly townread Datisi before but especially rereading with a lot of the fluff removed I think he truly did not know my alignment.

Is the Ali read based on your understanding of Ali as a player or a more general rule of how scum like to play?

Right now I'm trying to decide who among Bingle/SK/UNowen is scum

what do you think of Bingle coming in here and throwing a lot of shade around some people like Ali, uno, me? I feel like the easy explanation is that's scum trying to keep their options open but I also kinda think he would be more consistent about it if he has an agenda? I already indicated some level of uncertainty between him and UNowen and he chose to say he's not sure that I'm town, feels risky if he's scum

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lmfao

let's go to a kraken game some time ye?

I'd be down I've only been to a few but I live basically right down the street from Climate Pledge so I really should go more often!

Anyway, I have been looking over earlier day interactions and I feel pretty comfortable with Ali town because of the Xof wagon.

I just don't see Ali positioning eirself around that wagon the way e did if e is scum.

Also, I know people have been like "actually Datisi looks town on a review" and I'm kind of... unable to tell that? Datisi looks scummy to me sort of no matter what in early days, especially coming off of HotD. But I DO think that Datisi going for Cop day 1 after HotD with me IN THE GAME AGAIN is... it's too bold, tbh.

for me I felt Datisi's treatment of me feels more genuinely suspicious and like he wanted to figure me out moreso than something aimed to get me to townread him. I think scum!Tisi is usually a bit more pocket-y towards me than he was here - that's not infallible I have mistakenly townread Datisi before but especially rereading with a lot of the fluff removed I think he truly did not know my alignment.

Is the Ali read based on your understanding of Ali as a player or a more general rule of how scum like to play?

Right now I'm trying to decide who among Bingle/SK/UNowen is scum

what do you think of Bingle coming in here and throwing a lot of shade around some people like Ali, uno, me? I feel like the easy explanation is that's scum trying to keep their options open but I also kinda think he would be more consistent about it if he has an agenda? I already indicated some level of uncertainty between him and UNowen and he chose to say he's not sure that I'm town, feels risky if he's scum

hell yeah! remind me to add you to the "people I know in Seattle and play boardgames with at times" server, if you want. Ceph and Fen are in there too, anyway.
---
Ali read is based on both. Ali's like, a chaos gremlin, so it's hard to say precisely what e will do in any one specific situation with complete certainty, but e's also not like... bad at this game?

and I think that from what I know of Ali, the setup around the Xof wagon does them no favours and makes them look bad, and infact did as they ended up squarely in the "sussy baka cop" pool for the rest of the game.

I think Ali takes more care in eir approach there if scum, and I think in general scum wants to position themselves better, and Ali's a very competent scumplayer perfectly capable of making people townread eim.
---
As for Bingle, I get the sense that this would come from either alignment. Like... this can be town bingle going "your assessment is off because I'm town, but that's not enough to actually do anything" and giving me reasons why my logic is wrong, but feeling confident in my Kdowns logic all the same. If Bingle is town that has to be a super awkward position for him because he needs to like... onboard with the thing he agrees with without blowing himself up and dooming the town as a result.

But scum Bingle wants to get through this day with KDowns squashed, it's a transparent bus, and will be looking to probably use me as the one to convince to go somewhere else. In that world, it almost makes me think it's Bingle+SK because Bingle knows how much I townread SK.

It is a little weird, though, because I've said all game I townread SK and townread UNOwen and Bingle I've had a scumread on. So why would scum bingle be selling to me? You'd think he'd be selling to You and killing me, since the inertia of getting me to kill someone who isn't him tomorrow is harder.

Like no lie if I'm alive tomorrow I'm probably killing Bingle and letting Ali/SK/UNOwen endgame with whatever possible power roles we've managed to get tonight info wise and my last words. It's not... 100%, because I'm not 100% on Bingle scum, as said above but I have that inertia severely.

So it almost gives me pause like... would scum bingle fail to recognize I'm not the one to convicne here?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lmfao

let's go to a kraken game some time ye?

I'd be down I've only been to a few but I live basically right down the street from Climate Pledge so I really should go more often!

Anyway, I have been looking over earlier day interactions and I feel pretty comfortable with Ali town because of the Xof wagon.

I just don't see Ali positioning eirself around that wagon the way e did if e is scum.

Also, I know people have been like "actually Datisi looks town on a review" and I'm kind of... unable to tell that? Datisi looks scummy to me sort of no matter what in early days, especially coming off of HotD. But I DO think that Datisi going for Cop day 1 after HotD with me IN THE GAME AGAIN is... it's too bold, tbh.

for me I felt Datisi's treatment of me feels more genuinely suspicious and like he wanted to figure me out moreso than something aimed to get me to townread him. I think scum!Tisi is usually a bit more pocket-y towards me than he was here - that's not infallible I have mistakenly townread Datisi before but especially rereading with a lot of the fluff removed I think he truly did not know my alignment.

Is the Ali read based on your understanding of Ali as a player or a more general rule of how scum like to play?

Right now I'm trying to decide who among Bingle/SK/UNowen is scum

what do you think of Bingle coming in here and throwing a lot of shade around some people like Ali, uno, me? I feel like the easy explanation is that's scum trying to keep their options open but I also kinda think he would be more consistent about it if he has an agenda? I already indicated some level of uncertainty between him and UNowen and he chose to say he's not sure that I'm town, feels risky if he's scum

still there?

[GuiltyLion]

It is a little weird, though, because I've said all game I townread SK and townread UNOwen and Bingle I've had a scumread on. So why would scum bingle be selling to me? You'd think he'd be selling to You and killing me, since the inertia of getting me to kill someone who isn't him tomorrow is harder.

yeah, this is what I was getting at, I feel like I would be a natural ally especially if he kills you tonight, but instead he's choosing to preemptively make me defensive and suspicious of him. in that world his audience would be one of UNOwen or SleepyKrew I guess?

one other thing I'm thinking about, I don't know what make of Bingle being cop or declaring for it so quickly, if my JK gets funded then I feel like Bingle would be the natural target but that just screws us over if he is town and funded cop. and even if it prevents a NK Bingle could always claim to be targeted. I kinda wish we had put someone like Ali in there instead but Ali also declared super early and probably didn't predict that e'd be as townread

[GuiltyLion]

I think if scum!Bingle he must be assuming he needs to win a fight against me tomorrow

[GuiltyLion]

also overall I think if Alisae is town then Bingle talking me down from that is fairly town-indicative, it'd be much easier to let me push Ali for a free miselim and then possibly spin that back onto me, especially since we had furtive/SleepyKrew (regardless of his alignment) scumreading me already

maybe he was convinced I'd carry it through into today, but I feel like miseliminating furtive yesterday actually kinda hurt scum in a weird way when furtive was probably never going to endgame

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think if scum!Bingle he must be assuming he needs to win a fight against me tomorrow

Actually, yeah this almost reads like it could be UNOwen+Bingle.

It'd explain how town got into this position and explain why UNOwen is going in so hard on SK.