WoT Mafia, GAME OVER

[Tamuz]

As was said yesterday
Yos should pay
This agrees I'd say.

vote: Yosarian2

I do
and no I won't vote you
squash him like an ant under a shoe.

[MrBuddyLee]

Man, you masons are having all the fun in this game.

[MrBuddyLee]

I want to hear Spamwise's side of this tale before I vote. It's likely to differ substantially from Illumina's, but I'm pretty sure Yos is scum based on the events. The only other likely possibility is that both Illumina and Spam are scum, but if that's the case, they'd both get nailed if Yos turns up innocent, so their actions don't make sense in that light. More likely that one is scum.

[Fritzler]

*Huggles Gleeman* It's okay.

Anyways, where was I? Let's take a look at the player roster... I wanted to vote for TheManHimself, but I may as well wait for a replacement...

Vote: Lordy

.

I am interested in hearing from SpamWise. I also might have to start poking at Tamuz and MMoD, since both of them also seem to have more information than the rest of the town. I think we should have Yos2 tell us how many more members are in his Masonry, so scum cannot fake to be in it when (if) all the members die.

This no-reveal driving me nuts, I hate not knowing what types of roles are dead and gone.

Also, I am still curious as to the "collars". It seems that MBL is

still

the only person who has had this trouble.

not helpful

FOS: MBL

[mystery meat of doom]

I actually like Theory 2 alot, and Theory 1 to some extent. I'm still not sure about MBL, because I feel like he defended Flay, Karn, and Mariyta, and they all ended up being non-town(it's possible that Taim was actually the Vig, but, this seems unlikely to me). However, his immediate suspicion of CD yesterday, even if only for reasons that he knows, makes him seem more town to me. So..I'm not really sure there, but theories that support the 'someone tried to collar me' theory certainly help.

That makes him MORE suspicious, I'd say. He defended all the non-towns, and in an effort to look more town ratted out his mafia buddy.

You're misrepresenting my behavior, mmod. I didn't defend Flay per se, I pointed out that Tamuz was coerced to keep his vote on Flay for day one and thus we should view that vote with a grain of salt. I defended Karn so much as to say we should be cautious about lynching a claimed power role. And I don't believe I ever defended Mariyta, I only cast suspicion upon her, which means you either misread something or just made some bullshit up to try and discredit me.

Sorry for the confusion, I was actually basing what I wrote on the quote I had quoted, so all my information came from there. I don't actually remember what happened.

Vote: Yosarian

What exactly is channeling?

[MrBuddyLee]

Including me, there are currently 4 people in the masonry.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask you to name them--can you please do that?

Illumina, why didn't you vote Yos yesterday? Why'd you let ChannelDBird die instead of pointing in any way whatsoever to the only person you knew for certain was scum?

Spamwise, is it safe to explain why you were 100% certain Yos was scum, and why you backed off of your vote for him?

I don't think the collars are a cult thing. As someone said, a cult that can't recruit many townies can't win, and I'm an example of a townie who couldn't be collared.

mmod, is it safe for you to explain how you know BJ died collared?

[petroleumjelly]

Oooh, this game is being broken wide open! Scum may as well just give up now. They gots no chance.

First things first:

Yosarian2, I want a name-claim. And then I want you to explain this:

Including me, there are currently 4 people in the masonry.

Would you care to expand on this? Illumina is claiming there are 3 members of the Masonry alive. I want all members of this Masonry detailed.

To be honest, Yosarian2 is most likely just Alviarin Sedai, of the Black Ajah. XGreyJoyX probably figured his role-name didn't having bearing on alignment, and so thought it safe to give his real name to the rest of the Masonry (which is unfortunate for Yos2, really, puts him in a tough position).

I'll slap down my vote after giving him a fair trial.

Of note: Please let's hold back a lynch until we find replacements for Broomhead and TheManHimself, so that I can least read something from them before going into night.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, first of all, I have no idea what the person I replaced said, or when he said it. I am, in fact, Merilille Ceandevin, and Illumina is telling the truth about the number of people in the mason group.

He is right, there are only 3 masons left alive. When I was asked how many masons there were, I said that there are currently 4, because I had forgotten that Baby Jesus was now dead. That was my mistake.

I'm rather disturbed that Illumina has claimed the flavor of our mason group, and listed all the members, when there is a group out there that is apparently attempting to find and collar women who can channel, like us. I have trouble imagining a more anti-town act then what Illumina just did.

I mentioned that I thought there might be a scum mason, but I never said why. The reason, clearly, is that on day 1, we had a mason die who turned out to be black ajah scum. I didn't say this earlier, because of course I didn't want to reveal that our group was the aes sedi. We have no idea how many black ajah there might be in our mason group, of course. That might have been the only one, or there might be another one; there's no way to know.

Last night, I tried to PM spamwise to find out why he wanted to lynch me yesterday, so we could hopefully sort out whatever the problem was at night instead of doing this in the thread, where this information will clearly help the scum, but he never responded to me at all, which I do find rather suspicious myself.

Again, I have no idea what my predecessor PM'd to anyone, or why.

[petroleumjelly]

And oh, yes, we

definitely

need to hear from Spamwise as well. I think each member of the Masonry ought to give their own details as to just what went down during night conversations.

Also, for MMoD:

Channeling is simply using the One Power (like using magic). If you are shielded, you can no longer Channel unless you can break through, and if you are collared, your ability to channel is directly determined by the wielder of the bracelet attached to the collar. Also, you can use angraels (ter'angreals, etc.) to accomplish different purposes, or to maximize your channeling potential.

[Cyan]

I don't buy Illumina's statement completely. If Siuan Sanche were going to be in this game, IMO, it would be in her capacity as Amrylin Seat, not the random person that just hangs out at the mini-Tower(that's the only time that she'd be referred to as Siuan Sedai). I guess that would make either Egwene or Elaida as the Amyrlin..and somehow, that just doesn't seem right to me. Plus, it strikes me as odd that, in the midst of us discussing women that can channel getting collared, Illumina happily provides the identities of 3 different living Aes Sedia to the town.

There's also the fact that Spamwise backed off of his '100% sure' vote against Yos2 yesterday. I definetely think that we need to hear from Spamwise now, before we all jump on Yos' wagon. I mean, who knows, it could be one of those Black Ajah w/ the collar for all we know, or Illumina's win condition could involve getting rid of all of the non-black Ajah in the masonry group. There's just a little too much going on here, especially w/o hearing from Spamwise, to feel comfortable adding any more votes to Yos2's wagon.

I will say that, considering the complete obscurity of characters like Merilille and Salita, if Yos2 is scum, then the Black Ajah in that group probably just have safe-claims.

[mystery meat of doom]

@MBL: The mod told me.

Thx for the explanation PJ. Now, I'm 90% sure that the collars are used to control (or stop if they can do that) channelers and that I'm 60% sure that when xGreyJoyx claimed his name he was neutral and now Yosarian is probably scum of some sort, if what Illumina said about xGreyJoyx claiming to be black ajah (from what I gather is scum of some sort in the book) and Yosarian claiming to be someone else.

Note: This second point is very speculative, but I'm fairly sure at least one of the masons started out as neutral, if not more then one.

Have any of the nightkills have characteristics of someone using channeling to kill someone else?

Obv I haven't read the books as you can tell. Can someone tell me the flavour between the masons? How are their characters related?

[petroleumjelly]

Have any of the nightkills have characteristics of someone using channeling to kill someone else?

Yes indeed, but I wouldn't go so far as to attribute them all to the same person or group of people. I'll copy-paste from my notes...

*3.) Shamrock, Galina Sedai (BA/MASON), The Power N0
17.) Yamahako, Nynaeve, Smothered w/ Power N1
*19.) The Silent Speaker, Verin Sedai [MASON], Vanished N1
29.) Albert the Great, Perrin Aybara, Smothered w/ Power N3
16.) Logicticus, Lanfear (Forsaken), Smothered w/ Power N4

Using "the power" is channeling. We are also of the opinion that TSS's vanishing was caused by Balefire (which is an extreme form of channeling, which essentially erases the targeted object from existence, and in fact may be so powerful that it will have ceased to exist

before

it was ever targeted).

Obv I haven't read the books as you can tell. Can someone tell me the flavour between the masons? How are their characters related?

Aes Sedai are women who have been 'properly trained' on how to channel (which is done inside the White Tower). All of the Masons are claiming to be Aes Sedai. All Aes Sedai must submit themselves to the Oath Rod, which prevents them from

ever

telling a lie (which gives them the reputation for being even tricksier with their wording than most people).

The premise of the series is that all this junk leads up to Tarman G'aidon, or The Final Battle. In that war, there is the light (generally represented by Rand Al'Thor and company) versus the dark (The Dark Lord, his Forsaken, Shadowspawn [Dogs, Ravens, Rats, Trollocs, Myrrdraal, etc.], Darkfriends, and Black Ajah). The Black Ajah are Aes Sedai who have foregone the Oath Rod (broken their vow) in order to serve the Dark Lord. The White Tower generally denies there is such a thing as Black Ajah (as you can see from the first night).

***

Also, I find that Siuan Sanche is a

very

likely character in this game, so I am wondering at Cyan's implication that she may be lying. Frankly, if Illumina is part of a scum group of any sort, I would imagine they would only receive a maximum of one safe claim (and because of relative inexperience, the scum group would have had somebody other than Illumina be allowed to use the name of Siuan). iirc, Siuan was deposed from the tower very early on in the series and replaced by Elaida, so not being the Amyrlin in this game makes perfect sense to me.

As it is, I am getting the impression that scum weren't given safe-claims at all (see: Karn1's claim). Merilille is a weak enough claim that it is very likely false. Alviarin, however, is definitely a main character, and is most definitely Black Ajah. I really can't see this day going by without a Yosarian2 lynch, but I would still rather everybody check in and have their say first.

[petroleumjelly]

Whoops, error in my notes. Thought the nights were off. EBWODP:

*3.) Shamrock, Galina Sedai (BA/MASON), The Power N0
17.) Yamahako, Nynaeve, Smothered w/ Power N1
*19.) The Silent Speaker, Verin Sedai [MASON], Vanished N1
29.) Albert the Great, Perrin Aybara, Smothered w/ Power N2
16.) Logicticus, Lanfear (Forsaken), Smothered w/ Power N3

[Yosarian2]

Thx for the explanation PJ. Now, I'm 90% sure that the collars are used to control (or stop if they can do that) channelers and that I'm 60% sure that when xGreyJoyx claimed his name he was neutral and now Yosarian is probably scum of some sort, if what Illumina said about xGreyJoyx claiming to be black ajah (from what I gather is scum of some sort in the book) and Yosarian claiming to be someone else.

That dosn't make any sense at all. It's completly obveous that if Alvarian was actually in the game, she would be scum; not a neutral, not a good guy, but scum. Especally since we already have two dead people who are black ajah, one who was in the mason group and one who was not, I don't think there's any question but that a black ajah would be scum. Again, i have no idea if XgreyJoyX actually claimed alvarian; if he did, I can't imagine why, unless he was doing something dumb like trying to get a reaction out of TSS or something. There's no logical reason why xgreyjoyx would have claimed to the rest of the masons to be a black aes sedi if he actually was part of a black aes sedi scum group, that's for sure.

If he did actually claim to be a member of the Black Ajah, I also can't imagine why the other masons didn't try to lynch him much earlier in the game.

Again, I can't guess what might have been going on in his head, and I don't even know if he really sent a message like that to TSS. If he did, I can't imagine why; but like I said, I also can't think of a reason a scum would do that either. This whole thing just isn't making any sense.

[Illumina]

That's sound. My vote is firmly on Yos, but I'm really interested in hearing from Spamwise today.

@ Yosarian: I wasn't eager to reveal our identities, but I stand behind my reasoning. It's possible that given the death patterns any collarers would already suspect an Aes Sedai masonry (it certainly fits the flavor of the game, too). As I said, the risk of allowing a scum dominated masonry to exist unchecked is simply too great to ignore. I didn't feel I had any choice.

@MrBuddyLee: I didn't vote Yos yesterday because I wasn't sure that he was scum. I didn't notice that TSS had vanished yet, and until I discovered that he was really Verin, I suspected him as well. Initially, I actually thought TSS was orchestrating our suspicion of Yos, until I found that couldn't have been the case. I'm not sure what you mean about "allowing" ChannelDBird to die - as I said yesterday, I didn't buy his claim but was uncomfortable voting for a potential doc role.

[armlx]

Sweet, sorta solid evidence on someone I found scummy.

Vote Yosarian

This also ties in with something I noticed on the last page. He tried to but Yamahako's death on the cult, but it was blatantly obvious (at least to me) she was Nyvayae (sp?). And If

I

noticed it, that means everyone knew. I'm willing to bet money Yos-scum killed Yamahako N2 and is trying to disinfo people.

[mystery meat of doom]

The fact that he claimed to be who he was makes me think he was neutral to begin with. If he was scum, then why the HELL would he claim it?

[MrBuddyLee]

Cause he's a nub. Are you suggesting that his character magically transformed from Alvarian into Merilille night one?

[mystery meat of doom]

I'm saying that Yos is lying about his name-claim.

Is his fake name-claim part of the Aes Sedai?

[Illumina]

Yes, his fake name claim is a yellow ajah healer who plays only a small role in the books.

[Fritzler]

hey guys, im going ouit of town to a chrisstian athletic camp

proxy to lordy

[MrBuddyLee]

good luck with the athletic christian ladies

[petroleumjelly]

So now, what clues have we picked up from today and the previous few days? Theres not enough info, only screwed up roleclaims from those who died that I believe are mafia.

Frizzin.

Lordy, there is a

lot

of information out here.

We have three Masons who think they have a scum mason within them (treachery is afoot!). We have MMoD claiming that there could possibly be a neutral role in the Masonry (sounds like a traitorish role) or possibly elsewhere. There is intrigue in that revealing Aes Sedai may get them collared (as first mentioned by MBL, and seconded and confirmed by MMoD), although we can only guess at what collaring does at this time (though it seems as if it does

not

turn them into a cult, since BabyJesus was supposedly collared N3 and yet we were still told he was in the light). We have some speculation as to the scum groups on the table, we have speculation as to who killed who on the table! We have voting records you should be scrutinizing, there are comments that have been made off-hand which imply that the commentor may have more information than they reveal!

I ask that you read back in the thread and comment on what you see before saying there is 'little info' again.

[Fritzler]

good luck with the athletic christian ladies

thanks, i don't plan on sleeping with them though

[mystery meat of doom]

What does balefire do btw?