NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[VitaminR]

Not really feeling it, chamber.

[chamber]

Her words weren't actually meaningfully responding to the context of the question.

[petroleumjelly]

Mod

, my apologies, I will actually be

V/LA

May 24-27 (Memorial Day weekend).

1.)

Not happy asking these questions, as these are the kind of questions I grind newbies with just to get a better sense of how they play. But given that I have not played with Tigris, I'll give myself a pass. Tigris:

->

a.)

Why do (did) you consider your style to be unorthodox?

->

b.)

Why does the fact that the Glork wagon was "fairly large" make voting the third voter more legitimate? If the wagon had stopped at three votes would you still have voted MafiaSSK?

->

c.)

In the last game you played here (Newbie #1441), you explicitly avoided voting a player who was third on a wagon:

Generally speaking, I wouldn't think that mafia would be aggressive enough to place a third vote on someone the first page (thus bringing attention to themselves)...

That player turned out to be Town. Mind distinguishing that game from this one?

2.)

Vote: MafiaSSK

for this:

...why would I join a bandwagon instead of choosing an alternative that I think may lead to more information on the first day?

Because bandwagons are guaranteed information especially at high vote counts. You choosing to go after someone different has in fact more potential to gain less information...

[chamber]

Not really feeling it, petroleumjelly.

[Seol]

I'm feeling it.

Because bandwagons are guaranteed information especially at high vote counts.

Firstly, what sort of information do you expect an arbitrary bandwagon to guarantee at high vote counts?

Everybody knows it's a standard opening, and so the only way it's going to provoke a reaction is if it actually threatens a lynch. Is that what you meant?

Or do you mean the sort of information where people start giving opinions on the wagon, and expressing suspicions arising from it? Because

that's what Tigris did

.

You choosing to go after someone different has in fact more potential to gain less information.

"Violating groupthink is scummy"

VOTE: MafiaSSK

[chamber]

That post is approximately 100% rhetoric.

[Porochaz]

Not finding anything that Tigris did as scummy. MafiaSSK's response though is plain wrong, surely we are looking for reactions and what people do in response to the wagon, what information are you looking for if noone deviates from the wagon? It's a good basis to start with

unvote, vote MafiaSSK

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Why did you have to draw scum, Seol?

Now we have to lynch you Day One.

[Sotty7]

Her words weren't actually meaningfully responding to the context of the question.

How were they not? It was a direct response to CTD's question about information and an explanation of her ideas.

I'm also not feeling the MafiaSSK votes. Seems like a poor excuse to vote him even for this early in the game. I understand what he is trying to say about bandwagons being one of the best ways to garner information, but they aren't the only way.

Unvote, Vote: Seol

[Glork]

Not feeling MafiaSSK either.

Tigris is much more interesting.

[Green Crayons]

Coming from someone who didn't even join the almighty Glork wagon?VOTE: Tigris

I'm not typically a bandwagoner, so why would I join a bandwagon instead of choosing an alternative that I think may lead to more information on the first day?

Although, I still find starting with day instead of night somewhat odd.

Because bandwagons are guaranteed information especially at high vote counts. You choosing to go after someone different has in fact more potential to gain less information. And also cause Glork needs to be wagoned.

Starting with day also just helps with balance of setups.

Yeah, but starting with a vote on someone new has the possibility of starting a

new

bandwagon. By your logic, that means we should be comfortable not voting for an ongoing bandwagon, in the hopes that our new vote will start a new bandwagon and the town gets even more "guaranteed information."

UNVOTE: Glork
VOTE: MafiaSSK

Case in point: your life in this game so far.

[Green Crayons]

That post is approximately 100% rhetoric.

What does this even mean?

[LoudmouthLee]

Not feeling MafiaSSK either.

Tigris is much more interesting.

Glork is a definite town read right now.

...
I'm also not feeling the MafiaSSK votes. Seems like a poor excuse to vote him even for this early in the game. I understand what he is trying to say about bandwagons being one of the best ways to garner information, but they aren't the only way.

Unvote, Vote: Seol

This is quite an interesting post. Sotty decides to not be a part of either of the two main wagons, citing a poor excuse this early in the game to vote. It's page 3. There is no bad reason to vote for someone at this stage. I don't exactly know why, but this post tripped me up a little bit. In my opinion, there are a few reasons to vote for both Tigris and MafiaSSK. With the risk of repeating what others have said:

...

2.)

Vote: MafiaSSK

for this:

...why would I join a bandwagon instead of choosing an alternative that I think may lead to more information on the first day?

Because bandwagons are guaranteed information especially at high vote counts. You choosing to go after someone different has in fact more potential to gain less information...

Tigris's 3rd vote "vote" seems to play on the old timer's emotions... it's a "tell" that we all know and have looked at before. Almost like trying to garner trust with the town. I like my vote where it is right now, and...

FoS: MafiaSSK

@Seol, in response to 54 - If a bandwagon is arbitrary and standard opening, why the defense of Tigris?

[farside22]

Coming from someone who didn't even join the almighty Glork wagon?VOTE: Tigris

I'm not typically a bandwagoner, so why would I join a bandwagon instead of choosing an alternative that I think may lead to more information on the first day?

Although, I still find starting with day instead of night somewhat odd.

Because bandwagons are guaranteed information especially at high vote counts. You choosing to go after someone different has in fact more potential to gain less information. And also cause Glork needs to be wagoned.

Starting with day also just helps with balance of setups.

Why? I never understood how random votes on a wagon with no thought process nets info.

Yeaaah. I'm going to be less confident this game just because people have old styles, but that screams scum to me.

Really I feel the opposite. Tigres explained his reasoning well, why is it scummy?

[farside22]

Her words weren't actually meaningfully responding to the context of the question.

Seriously?
Please explain how like I'm a newb playing for the first time that tigres did not just explain his reasoning to the question at hand.

Her words weren't actually meaningfully responding to the context of the question.

How were they not? It was a direct response to CTD's question about information and an explanation of her ideas.

I'm also not feeling the MafiaSSK votes. Seems like a poor excuse to vote him even for this early in the game. I understand what he is trying to say about bandwagons being one of the best ways to garner information, but they aren't the only way.

Unvote, Vote: Seol

Why Seoul?

Vote: chamber

[VitaminR]

Unvote, Vote: LoudmouthLee

I'm not a fan of any of the MafiaSSK votes on this page. Feels like a bunch of strong players going for an easy target. I especially don't like LML's #62, which nicely sets up a potential switch to the MafiaSSK wagon while maintaining a push on Tigris. Seems like something scum might do to make sure that two wagons keep momentum.

Her words weren't actually meaningfully responding to the context of the question.

As in: the response was in the abstract rather than talking about what the vote was concretely supposed to do in this game? Meh.

[Untrod Tripod]

^ scum

[MafiaSSK]

Mod

, my apologies, I will actually be

V/LA

May 24-27 (Memorial Day weekend).

1.)

Not happy asking these questions, as these are the kind of questions I grind newbies with just to get a better sense of how they play. But given that I have not played with Tigris, I'll give myself a pass. Tigris:

->

a.)

Why do (did) you consider your style to be unorthodox?

->

b.)

Why does the fact that the Glork wagon was "fairly large" make voting the third voter more legitimate? If the wagon had stopped at three votes would you still have voted MafiaSSK?

->

c.)

In the last game you played here (Newbie #1441), you explicitly avoided voting a player who was third on a wagon:

Generally speaking, I wouldn't think that mafia would be aggressive enough to place a third vote on someone the first page (thus bringing attention to themselves)...

That player turned out to be Town. Mind distinguishing that game from this one?

2.)

Vote: MafiaSSK

for this:

...why would I join a bandwagon instead of choosing an alternative that I think may lead to more information on the first day?

Because bandwagons are guaranteed information especially at high vote counts. You choosing to go after someone different has in fact more potential to gain less information...

So I'll ask a seemingly useless question right back at you as you did to Tigris: Why is my (mostly theory based) opinion on bandwagons scummy enough to warrant a vote?

I'm feeling it.

Because bandwagons are guaranteed information especially at high vote counts.

Firstly, what sort of information do you expect an arbitrary bandwagon to guarantee at high vote counts?

Everybody knows it's a standard opening, and so the only way it's going to provoke a reaction is if it actually threatens a lynch. Is that what you meant?

Or do you mean the sort of information where people start giving opinions on the wagon, and expressing suspicions arising from it? Because

that's what Tigris did

.

You choosing to go after someone different has in fact more potential to gain less information.

"Violating groupthink is scummy"

VOTE: MafiaSSK

Way to misrep in that second quote, not at all what I was talking about. People do break off from wagons all the time, but when they do, it's because someone has done a legitimately scummy thing that you know you'll be able to gain information from. When you do as Tigris did and just start a complete other RVS wagon, while it still has the potential to gain information, you should be going for the larger wagon because that already has the steam building up behind it.

And yeah, large wagons do need to threaten a lynch in order to garner an actual reaction from the lynchee. It is just that typical of a move. But even if it doesn't reach that mass, you can still gain information on other players based on the order that they vote and the value of the reasons that they vote.

Not finding anything that Tigris did as scummy. MafiaSSK's response though is plain wrong, surely we are looking for reactions and what people do in response to the wagon, what information are you looking for if noone deviates from the wagon? It's a good basis to start with

unvote, vote MafiaSSK

People will deviate from the wagon, that's fine. I just don't like the way Tigris did it. See above.

Coming from someone who didn't even join the almighty Glork wagon?VOTE: Tigris

I'm not typically a bandwagoner, so why would I join a bandwagon instead of choosing an alternative that I think may lead to more information on the first day?

Although, I still find starting with day instead of night somewhat odd.

Because bandwagons are guaranteed information especially at high vote counts. You choosing to go after someone different has in fact more potential to gain less information. And also cause Glork needs to be wagoned.

Starting with day also just helps with balance of setups.

Yeah, but starting with a vote on someone new has the possibility of starting a

new

bandwagon. By your logic, that means we should be comfortable not voting for an ongoing bandwagon, in the hopes that our new vote will start a new bandwagon and the town gets even more "guaranteed information."

UNVOTE: Glork
VOTE: MafiaSSK

Case in point: your life in this game so far.

Sure. If you have enough confidence that your new bandwagon/vote will probably land on scum, then go ahead and start a new bandwagon. That's cool. That's what's happened to me and this is a perfectly natural and townie wagon to happen.

[Green Crayons]

Sure. If you have enough confidence that your new bandwagon/vote will probably land on scum, then go ahead and start a new bandwagon. That's cool.

That's what's happened to me and this is a perfectly natural and townie wagon to happen.

Does the bolded mean you disagree with the following observations about your wagon?

I'm also not feeling the MafiaSSK votes. Seems like a poor excuse to vote him even for this early in the game. I understand what he is trying to say about bandwagons being one of the best ways to garner information, but they aren't the only way.

I'm not a fan of any of the MafiaSSK votes on this page. Feels like a bunch of strong players going for an easy target.

[MafiaSSK]

Sure. If you have enough confidence that your new bandwagon/vote will probably land on scum, then go ahead and start a new bandwagon. That's cool.

That's what's happened to me and this is a perfectly natural and townie wagon to happen.

Does the bolded mean you disagree with the following observations about your wagon?

I'm also not feeling the MafiaSSK votes. Seems like a poor excuse to vote him even for this early in the game. I understand what he is trying to say about bandwagons being one of the best ways to garner information, but they aren't the only way.

I'm not a fan of any of the MafiaSSK votes on this page. Feels like a bunch of strong players going for an easy target.

Not necessarily. Take VitaminR, for example, just because it would be a bunch of strong players all teaming up against me, doesn't make it any less natural or townie. But even with Sotty, my statement can still hold true, for scuminess is sort of subjective and just because Sotty doesn't think of the reason as good enough to be natural, doesn't mean that it isn't.

[LoudmouthLee]

...I'm not a fan of any of the MafiaSSK votes on this page. Feels like a bunch of strong players going for an easy target. I especially don't like LML's #62, which nicely sets up a potential switch to the MafiaSSK wagon while maintaining a push on Tigris. Seems like something scum might do to make sure that two wagons keep momentum.

Am I not allowed to think two people seem scummy? If so, then I've been playing this game wrong for years.

@VitaminR, Do you believe in the finger of suspicion - Can you be voting for someone and find somebody else equally scummy?

[Shanba]

I'm not especially enamoured of any of these wagons, but I'm least thrilled about the mafiassk one, I think, and I think the smelliest thing so far is seol's vote on it, so

unvote

, VOTE: Seol.

I've never been much of a fan of wagons based on disagreements in theory about how the game should be played, but I semi-expect that kind of thing to some extent from PJ, whereas I don't know as much about how Seol plays so his is a little scummier I think. Also has the bonus of already being a wagon.

[Albert B. Rampage]

When did Shanba sign up for this?

[Shanba]

When did Shanba sign up for this?

spookily

like a ghost

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

A ghost frog.

Unvote, vote: Seol