Mini 1171: BSG Mafia - over - Were the humans saved?

[bobsnox]

Hel

l

o.

VOTE: bobsnox

Terrible vote/reasoning on camn. Terrible. What motivation do scum have to push us into serious scumhunting early?

1 - she came across as looking for an easy suspect, jumping all over whoever it was who declared he used a PRNG or whatever to pick a vote placement.

2 - town cred.

You look like you're doing the same thing.

[Substrike22]

random.org says 8.

vote helooonewman

while calling som1 ut for dicerolling is stupid, i don't see it as a scumtell because i've seen town do it before.

This actually is slightly scummy. Using "random.org" as an excuse alleviates you of any responsibility for the vote itself. I didn't provide a reason but I did choose randomly, without the aid of a tool, which could in fact be analyzed later. The fact that you defended it is scummier. Also are you going to use annoyingly bad spelling the entire game or was this done on a phone?

Hmm . RVS votes. Do not like.
And random number voting?? you feeling LUCKY? you think you can throw dice and find scum?
Do not like.

That said- I am sitting here listening to some Latin-type tunes, thinking we should all nameclaim. Not NOW... but soon. Today. I would like to lock the scum into their fakeclaims early on, assuming they have any.
Doing it today precludes any night-talk coordination.

But, I welcome the rest of the town's input on this. I am not married to the idea.

Oh, and

VOTE: ACRONACH

dicerolls are scummy.

Dice rolls are scummy. Pushing for a full name claim this early is scummier. Wishy washiness on the idea and the wording of "I welcome the rest of the town's imput on this" makes it scummier still.

UNVOTE: ooba
VOTE: camn

Neither Dekes nor Starbuck are retarded, and therefore I'm assuming that they did not give us all names without providing the scum AT MINIMUM a list of characters that aren't in the set-up.

edit after reading later in the forum: my vote here is based not on her pushing us to "serious" conversation, I consider that a town move, but her blatant attempt at scoring town cred and for pushing a massclaim this early.

I'm not against a mass name claim. Although based on the flavor, it wouldnt be hard to make fake claims. If they are even needed.

That's a valid point. The other problem I see with a mass nameclaim is the fact we'll basically have to force a townie or two to fake claim. I can already think of at least one role where this would almost be a necessity. Not only that, a mass nameclaim alone COULD end up being a mass role claim as well, since with a few characters their role would become obvious.

i dont watch BSG so idk if this will be a problem for me or not.

no nameclaim please :/

...holy fucking shit, batman. Either you now win the VI award for the game or you're scum.

UNVOTE: camn
VOTE: Acronach

Tanarin, if it's not much trouble, could you get a avatar .. I find it easier to remember people+posts in a game based on their avatar ..

---

Reg. nameclaim:
- Possible advantage as already mentioned by camn are that scum get committed to their fake claims i.e they cannot mix and match each other fakeclaims as the situation demands.
- Disadvantage is that scum will be able to guess on the relative power levels of different townies and choose their night kills based on that (For example a Starbuck claim\Lt.Gaeta claim\Specialist Cally Henderson claim).
I'd have to vote No since IMO, the possible advantage doesn't outweigh the disadvantage.

---

Vote: Acronach

It's not as much the random vote as the reactions to being called out on the random vote.

---

PS: I started watching BSG after signing up - now about to finish season 1 - it's good! One request - please use spoiler tags for major plot reveals.

Entire post QFT and acknowledgment of the request at the end, having seen the whole series myself. Totally worth watching, for the record. Back to the game:

Hello. First things first, this account is a hydra...

... overestimates the ease of connecting a character to a specific role. There are quite a few characters in BSG, more than enough to populate a game of 13 without running into extras ...

What is more concerning to me is the way that Tanarin was smokescreening the nameclaim from the first moment. In post #29, he allowed the possibility, but pushed it to the end of the day. Now by post #41, he claims that it will out townies, somehow. I fail to see why, short of provided fake claims, that a nameclaim would out the town and not the scum. Besides that, I feel like roles that are effectively Millers should out themselves as soon as possible, as Millers should. I don't want to have someone claim a really suspicious role in endgame and lose for it. This stuff should be out now.

Acronach wants not to nameclaim because he wouldn't be able to fakeclaim properly. I have no problem with people being unable to fakeclaim. It looks scummy, really.

Bobsnox voting camn for being serious when he could have commented on the nameclaim doesn't give me a good feeling either. The same goes for Newman. This is why being arbitrary can be scummy. Because then they don't have to comment on valid discussion.

First bit: Who are you a hydra of?

Second bit: I disagree. While I agree with you that it might be hard to pin certain abilities to certain people, at this point it is a disadvantage to assume that the power roles are that cleverly guised. It would make sense for the majority of the town's power roles to be concentrated on characters central to the series; therefore, I wouldn't want to risk outing them this early.

Third bit: I don't follow, other than the bit of "smokescreening", which I find kind of weak given Arco's current state.

Fourth bit: Yea so why isn't your vote there? Distancing from your scum buddy without busing him on D1?

Fifth bit: I follow your bit on Bobsnox but disagree with you on Newman. So far newman is trolling and that's about it. Annoying, slightly; scummy, not really.

2 - town cred.

You look like you're doing the same thing.

No he's really not, he pointed out something valid in your logic in attacking Caen. That being said you're striking me as overzealous town, so breathe, and let's go after the clear scum here, Acro.

[vollkan]

random.org says 8.

vote helooonewman

Vote: Acronach

1) What do think the purpose of RVS is?
2) How does using random.org help achieve that purpose?

Hmm... name claim COULD be interesting to consider here. Thing is, we don't know 2 things.

A) Have scum been given safe names to claim.
B) If not, have scum already discussed possible names to use. Remember they were allowed to talk during the pre-game.

If we do any sort of name claiming though, it should be later on in the day for sure. That way we can put people we think are scummy at the front of the line.

I agree that at the very least we shouldn't do it right away.

As for whether we do it or not, I think the costs tend to outweigh the benefits. So, being conservative-minded about these sorts of things, I vote no.

The only real advantage of it is outing scum who claim either a scum role (if they are really stupid) or a really obscure role.

The trouble is that, if a mod has any sense, they will do some combination of the following in setting up the game:
a) Give scum plausible fakeclaims;
b) Give some town obscure roles;
c) Not necessarily have flavour and alignment matching up (which is especially easy for a theme like BSG, where the morality of so many characters is gray)

I'm not against a mass name claim. Although based on the flavor, it wouldnt be hard to make fake claims. If they are even needed.

That's a valid point. The other problem I see with a mass nameclaim is the fact we'll basically have to force a townie or two to fake claim. I can already think of at least one role where this would almost be a necessity. Not only that, a mass nameclaim alone COULD end up being a mass role claim as well, since with a few characters their role would become obvious.

i dont watch BSG so idk if this will be a problem for me or not.

no nameclaim please :/

Don't worry; we wouldn't want to force you to make a dodgy fakeclaim and then out yourself as scum

[vollkan]

Also, might as well get my PSA out of the way:

For the uninitiated, I rank my suspects from 0 (absolutely town) - 100 (absolutely scum). Everybody starts at 50. Because I don't believe in towntells and am skeptical about most scumtells, it is common for people to stay at 50. 50 does not mean "no opinion" - it means "I don't see scumtells" from this person. Absent claims, need for deadline compromises, etc. I will always vote the person with the highest score.

Currently my scores look like this:

Player	Score
camn	50
bosbnox	50
valern	50
Sir Ricardo Montalbán	50
DTMaster	50
Zang	50
Substrike22	50
HellloooNewman	50
Acronach	50
Tanarin	50
Reya Cookiebringer	50
ooba	50

[Substrike22]

I'm not against a mass name claim. Although based on the flavor, it wouldnt be hard to make fake claims. If they are even needed.

That's a valid point. The other problem I see with a mass nameclaim is the fact we'll basically have to force a townie or two to fake claim. I can already think of at least one role where this would almost be a necessity. Not only that, a mass nameclaim alone COULD end up being a mass role claim as well, since with a few characters their role would become obvious.

i dont watch BSG so idk if this will be a problem for me or not.

no nameclaim please :/

I'm not against a mass name claim. Although based on the flavor, it wouldnt be hard to make fake claims. If they are even needed.

That's a valid point. The other problem I see with a mass nameclaim is the fact we'll basically have to force a townie or two to fake claim. I can already think of at least one role where this would almost be a necessity. Not only that, a mass nameclaim alone COULD end up being a mass role claim as well, since with a few characters their role would become obvious.

i dont watch BSG so idk if this will be a problem for me or not.

no nameclaim please :/

I'm not against a mass name claim. Although based on the flavor, it wouldnt be hard to make fake claims. If they are even needed.

That's a valid point. The other problem I see with a mass nameclaim is the fact we'll basically have to force a townie or two to fake claim. I can already think of at least one role where this would almost be a necessity. Not only that, a mass nameclaim alone COULD end up being a mass role claim as well, since with a few characters their role would become obvious.

i dont watch BSG so idk if this will be a problem for me or not.

no nameclaim please :/

I'm not against a mass name claim. Although based on the flavor, it wouldnt be hard to make fake claims. If they are even needed.

That's a valid point. The other problem I see with a mass nameclaim is the fact we'll basically have to force a townie or two to fake claim. I can already think of at least one role where this would almost be a necessity. Not only that, a mass nameclaim alone COULD end up being a mass role claim as well, since with a few characters their role would become obvious.

i dont watch BSG so idk if this will be a problem for me or not.

no nameclaim please :/

I'm not against a mass name claim. Although based on the flavor, it wouldnt be hard to make fake claims. If they are even needed.

That's a valid point. The other problem I see with a mass nameclaim is the fact we'll basically have to force a townie or two to fake claim. I can already think of at least one role where this would almost be a necessity. Not only that, a mass nameclaim alone COULD end up being a mass role claim as well, since with a few characters their role would become obvious.

i dont watch BSG so idk if this will be a problem for me or not.

no nameclaim please :/

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Scumclaim. Multiplied for maximum effect, because it's said you need to read something 3 times before you understand it. I gave it 5 to be safe. Moar votes please.

[Tanarin]

So, as for the nameclaim, we tentatively support it. I personally think that Ooba underestimates the strength of locking scum into their roles and overestimates the ease of connecting a character to a specific role. There are quite a few characters in BSG, more than enough to populate a game of 13 without running into extras. Though I may well be wrong. At any rate, Ooba, I have a question for you. Why do you think that town power roles are likely to be linked to character, but that alignment would not be?

I think I can see where ooba is coming from, and I will explain this in my second part.

What is more concerning to me is the way that Tanarin was smokescreening the nameclaim from the first moment. In post #29, he allowed the possibility, but pushed it to the end of the day. Now by post #41, he claims that it will out townies, somehow. I fail to see why, short of provided fake claims, that a nameclaim would out the town and not the scum. Besides that, I feel like roles that are effectively Millers should out themselves as soon as possible, as Millers should. I don't want to have someone claim a really suspicious role in endgame and lose for it. This stuff should be out now.

OK, while I am in support of a nameclaim here, I think it could be risky given the flavor of this game. We are not dealing with pure cylons here. Instead we are dealing with the Demand Peace movement. I am assuming you have not seen BSG here, therefore would not be familiar with the group. It is a group of humans that wanted to end the fighting between humans and cylons. They eventually took on a Number Six model cylon in their group, (Unknowingly to the rest of the group, mind you.) Therefore names alone COULD out scum, it also gives us a possible timeline to look for characters who WOULD or WOULD NOT be in the setup. Also, there are a few characters we could EASILY tie to role, for example if Doc Cottle is in the setup, (Which given the nature of mafia in general I have no reason to believe he isn't,) we would not want to out the doc as well, and forcing him to basically fakeclaim D1 could get him lynched. I do agree millers SHOULD out themselves ASAP though.

Acronach wants not to nameclaim because he wouldn't be able to fakeclaim properly. I have no problem with people being unable to fakeclaim. It looks scummy, really.

No Arguement from me here.

Bobsnox voting camn for being serious when he could have commented on the nameclaim doesn't give me a good feeling either. The same goes for Newman. This is why being arbitrary can be scummy. Because then they don't have to comment on valid discussion.

No arguement here as well.

@substrike22 regarding post #51 Why vote twice in the same post? I assume you are basically writing stuff in the order it was posted, but why unvote/vote twice in the same post? Wouldn't a FoS on Camn suffice.

Also:

Unvote
Vote: Acronach

I would REALLY, REALLY like him to lead off any name claims we may do, though by his actions we may be getting a claim off of him real soon anyway.

[vollkan]

OK, while I am in support of a nameclaim here, I think it could be risky given the flavor of this game. We are not dealing with pure cylons here. Instead we are dealing with the Demand Peace movement. I am assuming you have not seen BSG here, therefore would not be familiar with the group. It is a group of humans that wanted to end the fighting between humans and cylons. They eventually took on a Number Six model cylon in their group, (Unknowingly to the rest of the group, mind you.) Therefore names alone COULD out scum, it also gives us a possible timeline to look for characters who WOULD or WOULD NOT be in the setup. Also, there are a few characters we could EASILY tie to role, for example if Doc Cottle is in the setup, (Which given the nature of mafia in general I have no reason to believe he isn't,) we would not want to out the doc as well, and forcing him to basically fakeclaim D1 could get him lynched. I do agree millers SHOULD out themselves ASAP though.

1) In Theme Games, it's simply stupid to look for a "possible timeline". As somebody who has played and run theme games in the past, you don't think about that sort of thing - it's just about the flavour and not about continuity

2) See my previous post - unless a mod is stupid, they won't make the game breakable. Since it's good policy NOT to outguess the mod, name claiming is a bad idea. It may become an acceptable option when there are a number of firm suspects (ie. so they can be made to claim first), but that's a conversation for later on.

[bobsnox]

That is a scummy way to say you don't know flavor. Thanks to those above for catching it.

UNVOTE: camn
VOTE: acronach

[ooba]

Umm .. I was counting the votes after Tanarin's vote to see where Acronach was ..
Think you just hammered ..

Zang
camn
ooba
Substrike22
vollkan
Tanarin
bobsnox

[vollkan]

Umm .. I was counting the votes after Tanarin's vote to see where Acronach was ..
Think you just hammered ..

Zang
camn
ooba
Substrike22
vollkan
Tanarin
bobsnox

Well...that merits a headdesk:

Unvote

just in case.

[Dekes]

Number Six: Life has a melody, Gaius. A rhythm of notes that become your existence once played in harmony with God's plan.

Votecount 1.1

Acronach (L-0): Zang, camn, ooba, Substrike22, vollkan, Tanarin, bobsnox

bobsnox (L-6): valern
HellloooNewman (L-6): Acronach

Not voting: Sir Ricardo Montalbán, DTMaster, HellloooNewman, Reya Cookiebringer


Battlestar Galactica, Joe's bar. After a hard day's work fixing MK II's, Cally Henderson is using her spare time to savor the evening with a cool beer among friends and co-workers. It's Chief Tyrol's turn now to approach her with quite suprising news.

"Aren't you up for duty tonight, Deckhand Henderson?"
"Oh, Chief!...No, sorry, you know, Jammer invited me over on a beer...we finished up checking on all the birds...and we haven't heard from the Cylons in over a week...he figured we oughta have some fun tonight..."
"'s alright. We should get all the fun while we can. That's not what I wanted to talk to you about. I just came back from Airlock 7. You haven't heard? I'm surprised they haven't sent it through the speakers throughout the fleet."
"No, what is it? They've been playing Baltar's preachings all night long. Joe's all into Baltar these days."
"It's the circle. They've already found one of DPM's leaders and sent her out of the airlock."
"What? How?"
"Apparently the rumors are true. It was one of the skinjobs everybody's talking about. The woman that was seen around the Defence Mainframe just before the attack. Captured her on Cloud Nine. Threw her out of the airlock before she could say anything."
"Good ridance! That'll teach those frakkers not to mess with Galactica!"
"I don't know. I think the war's just begun."
"Lighten up, Chief! Galactica's just scored first. They put the right men in the circle, I know it. Here, take a beer. Let's not worry tonight. Like you said, "we should get all the fun while we can."
"Yeah, you're right....I guess, you're right."

Acronach,

Number Six, Cylon, Seductress of the Demand Peace Movement

, was thrown out of the airlock on Day 1.

It is now Night 1. Deadline is

May, the 21st, 9:30 a.m. EDT

[Dekes]

Kara Thrace: You know, everyone I know is fighting to get back what they had. I'm fighting because I don't know how to do anything else.

Battlestar Galactica, Air Group Briefing Room. The rookie pilots are sitting nervously in their seats, waiting for their CAG to show up. After last night's events everybody onboard shared the same cocktail of feelings: relief, happiness, and tension. How would the DPM react to the loss of one of their leaders, everybody asked themselves. And the DPM reacted. In the middle of the night a huge tremor unsettled the crew and the ship alike. The detonation was located coming from the pilot quarters. From Starbuck's room.

Louanne "Kat" Katraine, CAG for the portside crew, enters the Briefing Room.

"A-ttenton, nuggets! At ease. If you haven't heard, we are one man short today. It's Anders."
"The rookie from Piscon? What happened?"
"Shot himself."
"What-" "How-" "Why-"
"Gone off the deep end it seems. Couldn't live without Starbuck and pulled the trigger."
"Frak me! First Starbuck and now this? Anders was a good guy. We're already short in pilots as it is."
"Shut up, Hot Dog. Yes, Anders was a good guy. And a frakking idiot, too. Poor sucker should've waited for the Bomb Squad's report before blowing his brains to the wall. That's why I'm here. They didn't find any body in Starbuck's room."
"You're frakking kidding me? She was going crazy last night at Joe's. We had to carry her drunk ass to her bunk. There's no way she wasn't in Dreamland last night."
"And her Viper's missing, too. DRADIS didn't pick up anything and neither did the crew from the launch tubes. Galactica's guess is she might've gone down to the planet. Galactica wants her bird and her pilot back. And we are the lucky frakkers who are to find them. There's no guarantees and we got 24 hours. This is a standard SAR mission, you know the drill. Hot Dog and Chuckles, you fly with me. Everybody else in their usual pairs. Everybody's in their cockpit in twenty. So say we all!"

vollkan,

Kara "Starbuck" Thrace, Human, Galactica Lover

, vanished Night 1.

ooba,

Samuel T. Anders, Cylon, Galactica Lover

, commited suicide Night 1.


It is now Day 2. Deadline is

June, the 4th, 10:30 a.m. EDT

[Dekes]

Commander Adama: Sometimes you got to roll a hard six.

Votecount 2.0

Not voting: camn, bobsnox, valern, Sir Ricardo Montalbán, DTMaster, Zang, Substrike22, HellloooNewman, Tanarin, Reya Cookiebringer

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch and 5 to no lynch.

Deadline is

June, the 4th, 10:30 a.m. EDT

[Tanarin]

Oh, frakkin hell! I did not see that one coming. OK, first off, I think we need to consider that name claim again. Second, while we did not get a lot of info on D1, we should start looking at everyone on the wagon. Third, WHERE THE FRAK IS DTMASTER AND REYA? The said nothing yesterday. They need to speak, and speak now.

[Reya Cookiebringer]

Damn day 1 was 2 days wtf? We don't have alot of info like tanarin said so a name claim is fine with me.

[HellloooNewman]

I am so glad that you guys got scum with that quick lynch (on page 3!!!). If Acronach had come back town, I'd be one pissed off dude. I literally go 1 day without a post and BOOM he's lynched.

Anyway, regarding the name claim. I have to say that I am a bit against it. I agree that the name of the role will very likely give away who has a power role and who doesn't. Of the 3 roles outted so far, none of them have been a surprise when compared to the character.

[Tanarin]

@Newman: Yeah, that was the main concern I have had with nameclaiming, it would most likely out any PRs we do have in this game. I know this was seen as "smokescreening" by Ricardo. Just because I find an idea intriguing does NOT mean I don't have reservations about it. Nor in any of my other posts about a name claim did I explicitly backtrack and completely rule out a nameclaim.

[bobsnox]

Sorry for hammering out of nowhere. I honestly wasn't counting... Oh well

I'm fine with a nameclaim because I don't really know flavor...

[Zang]

I hate quicklynches but at least this time we got scum.

Wasn't the whole point of the name claim to lock scum into their fake claims before they had a chance to decide them? Now that they were able to talk with eachother they probably have decided what their fake claims would be. What is the point of a name claim now?

[HellloooNewman]

@ bobsnox - I don't know flavor either, but if I were given character names, wikipedia would be my new best friend

I think that a name claim in a day or two could be beneficial. I think it does more harm than good now.


Preview Edit: Zang makes an excellent point.

[Tanarin]

Reya, I know D1 was really, really short, but do you have any input on what transpired OTHER than how short D1 was? Same question goes to DTMaster.

Also, another thing on my mind looking at the last part of the day, we should look at the people who posted between Acro's should have been obvious scum claim and the time substrike called him out. That means we need to look at myself, Ricardo, camn, bobsnox, valren. I know I am town, but I should not, nor would I ever propose I be immune to scrutiny unless I was 100% confirmed to be town. I think bobsnox should be really looked at though as he hammered before anyone could get a response from Arch. Maybe he did not see that I was the L-1 vote and it was an accident, but I think it was suspicious enough to warrant further looking into.

As another aside, how does everyone feel about substrike? As of now I feel his busting of Acro was a real town reaction and not one of scum bussing their buddy. That's just me though.

@bobsnox and newman's posts: Doesn't that seem a bit scummy to people? Especially bobsnox post...

[bobsnox]

Reya, I know D1 was really, really short, but do you have any input on what transpired OTHER than how short D1 was? Same question goes to DTMaster.

Also, another thing on my mind looking at the last part of the day, we should look at the people who posted between Acro's should have been obvious scum claim and the time substrike called him out. That means we need to look at myself, Ricardo, camn, bobsnox, valren. I know I am town, but I should not, nor would I ever propose I be immune to scrutiny unless I was 100% confirmed to be town. I think bobsnox should be really looked at though as he hammered before anyone could get a response from Arch. Maybe he did not see that I was the L-1 vote and it was an accident, but I think it was suspicious enough to warrant further looking into.

As another aside, how does everyone feel about substrike? As of now I feel his busting of Acro was a real town reaction and not one of scum bussing their buddy. That's just me though.

@bobsnox and newman's posts: Doesn't that seem a bit scummy to people? Especially bobsnox post...

No I agree - it was scummy how I hammered.

Let me review my thoughts on camn - I suspected him yesterday but I'm not sure if the lynch affects my stance.

[bobsnox]

Ok no, camn is not scum. #27 is not a bus.

[Tanarin]

OK, what about the rest of the names I listed? What is your opinion on them?

And you say camn is town off of post #27. What changed your mind? Also, what WAS giving you scum vibes on him in the first place?

[Sir Ricardo Montalbán]

Oh, frakkin hell! I did not see that one coming. OK, first off, I think we need to consider that name claim again. Second, while we did not get a lot of info on D1, we should start looking at everyone on the wagon. Third, WHERE THE FRAK IS DTMASTER AND REYA? The said nothing yesterday. They need to speak, and speak now.

No, no point in name claiming. The whole point in doing it on Day 1 (and the reason that Acronach got outed) was that they didn't have time to plan fakeclaims.

Why would we look at the Acronach wagon to find scum? As far as I'm concerned camn, Substrike22, bobsnox, & you come off as strong town. Zang's presence on the lynch was accidental (random vote), and the other two are dead. (though I don't care for bob's apology after the fact)

I really don't know why you're searching for evidence bussing instead of avoidance. It's far more likely that scum avoided being on the speedwagon of their partner.

Also, I don't care for Reya being for a name-claim on Day 2.

Fos: Reya Cookiebringer

(if the other hydra head agrees, he'll turn it into a vote)

And no, hydra head names will not be revealed during the course of the game.