Newbie 1082: No Country for Old Mafia - Game Over!

[-L-]

"clearing" anyone this early in the game is not possible.

[cjdrum]

Or, at least, be a bit less suspicious.

[Misder]

@[L] It's the same way you are viewing me. I see you as more protown than others (no where do I mention that I'm positive that you are innocent like you state) the same way you view me as more scummy than others. Simple as that. In my book of notes, you and muffin are the only ones that don't have some sort of slight scum read, esp. since you guys questioned the same things I have in my notes, therefore less scummy. I'll agree that it is very early though, which is why I'm holding back all of my thoughts until later when I actually get more evidence on people.

[Misder]

@Wing, anyone you think is suspicious now that we have pretty much past RVS?

@zMuffinMan Why do you find it demeaning that Romanus is trying to be the IC?

@Romanus, what is your role as the IC and how are you going to accomplish this?

@McGriddle, how did you choose cjdrum as your random vote? Also, why do you like townside better than scumside?

[-L-]

@Misder: After reading your post, and evaluating MuffinMan's post - I can't get a read on him at all. Like, nada. What are you reading differently from me? What makes you think he is innocent?

[-L-]

posts*

[Misder]

@[L] Admittedly, he only has two posts and his second one I got a null read also. However, I like his first post only because of his attack on Romanus. These are my notes for him:
31

Hi

1. How much experience playing mafia do you have?
2. Why do you enjoy playing mafia?

1. Pretty much none. A friend told me about this game and said it'd be the kind of thing I'd like. He linked me here and I've read a few games he's played in, if that counts for experience at all...
2. Well, it looks like I'd find it enjoyable.

Vote: Romanus

I don't see why you needed to tell us that your vote wasn't serious.

A legit vote cause I was thinking the same thing/or should have been even more, slight town read

@Romanus

You're giving us zero credit if you really think we need to be spoon-fed that badly. Being new doesn't mean we're stupid.

On the topic of making things clear, could you explain the irony in your reasoning for voting me? Jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so my vote stands.

Agree with Muffin on second paragraph, read is null on this post, but makes more sense if it was town; if Romanus maf, Muffin town imo
38

Australian EST (+10 GMT, +1 for DST), it's 2:22pm now.

I get on when I can, time varies a lot because my current sleeping pattern. I'll probably be posting somewhere between midday and midnight my time most days.

null read

Again, I'm saying that I didn't get a scummy read on him. Everyone else I get something I don't really like.

[Misder]

Sorry, three posts. I mislabeled in my notes, as you can see by my missing number on the second quote x.x' Second quote is post 34. Also, just wondering what your last post is about L.

[Fenchurch]

Third Vote Count of Day One:

McGriddle - 2 (WingDamage9001, cjdrum)
Misder - 2 (crazypianist1116, [L])

WingDamage9001 - 1 (Prosaurus)
cjdrum - 1 (McGriddle)
Romanus - 1 (zMuffinMan)
zMuffinMan - 1 (Romanus)

Not Voting: 1 (Misder)

With nine alive, it will take five votes to lynch someone.

Deadline is: Wednesday, 13th April at 8:17 am GMT.

[crazypianist1116]

Misder, I'm still not seeing how you got a town read from [L] after talking about non-game related content. It's called RVS for a reason.
UTC - 5 now but will be UTC - 6 on Sunday.

What is your favourite thing to claim while under pressure as scum?

Asking what someone would do as scum is a bit WIFOM-y, ne?

[WingDamage9001]

VOTE: WingDamage9001 because it's over 9000!

It's true.

@Wingdamage9001 - What's your favourite ProTown role?

I'd have to go with cop on that one.

@WingDamage: Expound on what is "fun" about mafia by sharing your favorite game mechanic.

I enjoy most scum mechanics. I think that having more night choices to make than just your kill adds a new dimension to the game. Pro-town, I like cop. I like to be able to validate my opinions with some solid fact.

Now, with that out of the way, more quotes! And a wall of text. Sorry.

@Romanus Don't OMGUS, that pretty much got me killed me on my last game

Coaching a bit here? Romanus is the IC here, I think he/she(?) understands basic gameplay. Why do you direct him/her(?)?

Jumping on someone for itty bitty things early on smells of scum to me, so my vote stands.

The basis of scum hunting, and the only way to end RVS is to jump on people for something. This early in the game, anything is enough to jump on, if only to start a conversation. You seem to be jumping on Romanus for something pretty tiny. Did you feel that it was a large enough transgression to warrant suspicion?

Also, can I ask what kind of time zones you guys are in?
And how long you guys will be on each day?

I'm in US EST, and I can be on most of the afternoon/evening.

Your "valid" questions ask things that will reveal important evidence for later in the game. But the fluffy questions are very noncommittal and lack substance... as if you were just filling in a question so as to not leave anyone out, or because you did not feel the need to investigate someone you already know about. Just my thoughts. But it is still early in the game, so there isn't much to ask anyhow, and you've done more work than others.

Are the fluffy questions you asked to be considered relevant?

Because I am following a hunch; I do not like how he can decide so early in the game that I am innocent.

What important information can be gleaned from the question to me? Or to pretty much anyone? I would think they are easy enough questions to make up a town-sounding answer for.
What exactly is the hunch that you're following?

@Wing, anyone you think is suspicious now that we have pretty much past RVS?

Not particularly. I would say [L], but I have no strong reads on anyone. I need to see more from everyone before putting together a list.

With that out of the way,
@Everyone: I'd like to see more clearly stated cases. Rather than say, so and so seems scummy, provide reasoning. It makes your case more convincing, and makes it look more like scum hunting, and less like scum pushing a mislynch. Thanks

[zMuffinMan]

@cjdrum

Can you give us all a fresh new reason for your vote?

A new reason? Not really. I guess you could say I don't like the vibe coming from Romanus's posts at the moment, and I'll wait to see how he responds to the last page of posts before I do anything.

@zMuffinMan - If you ran a UPick and somebody submitted "The Muffin Man", would they be ProTown or Anti?

The Muffin Man doesn't really sound like an anti-town role, but I might make it anti-town because of that. It would probably depend on the other names submitted, I don't really know how UPicks work (only just read the wiki page for it).


@[L]

@MuffinMan: After reading your friend's games, what is one thing you learned? What appeals to you to make this game interesting?

What I learned? That's a tough question. I wasn't really reading through the games thinking about what I was learning at the time, and my friend was answering any questions I had. I knew the result of the games before I read through them. If I had to say one thing I learned, it would be the need to thoroughly think through everything before trusting any assumptions.
What appeals to me? I like the style of the game. One team has to find any information they can and analyse it, while the other team relies on deception to outplay their opponents. I'm a kinesthetic person, and consider myself very intuitive. This sort of thing is right up my alley.


@Misder

@zMuffinMan Why do you find it demeaning that Romanus is trying to be the IC?

That's a somewhat loaded question. My problem isn't with Romanus "trying to be the IC", my problem is with what he was saying.

I haven't played before, but I ask of anyone who read Romanus's first post:

When you read the first line, did you seriously think to yourself, "wow, that's a valid tactic for finding scum"?

Were you flabbergasted when he revealed on the second line of his post that it wasn't a real strategy?

He didn't even properly explain what RVS is, so if you didn't have any idea what he was doing, how would the second line have helped?

I don't like the way the second line was written. I don't see it as him making things clear or being helpful "as an IC".


@WingDamage9001

The basis of scum hunting, and the only way to end RVS is to jump on people for something. This early in the game, anything is enough to jump on, if only to start a conversation. You seem to be jumping on Romanus for something pretty tiny. Did you feel that it was a large enough transgression to warrant suspicion?

Did you miss Romanus's post? I was pointing out irony.

I was (and am) trying to extract information based on something I picked up that didn't feel right. I don't feel this is proof he is scum, but it's a lead to extract information on the way he plays the game.

I'm not sure what you mean by a transgression large enough to warrant suspicion. Everything is suspicious and everyone is suspicious. I'm the only person I can trust right now.

[Prosaurus]

@Romanus Don't OMGUS, that pretty much got me killed me on my last game

Coaching a bit here? Romanus is the IC here, I think he/she(?) understands basic gameplay. Why do you direct him/her(?)?

Yea I know. Just saying that they OMGUS'd, which isn't normally a good thing to do.

[Prosaurus]

2. Why do you enjoy playing mafia?

My answer to one is in my wiki which should be linked on the left hand side. As for two, I really enjoy the game because it's a great battle of wits and logical deduction when you're town, and when you're mafia, it's a great game of deception

I suppose your answer is the closest I could get. I haven't exactly played many games, and so far I've only been town.

[Prosaurus]

Analysing: [L]

Vote: WingDamage

, cos his wings had to have gotten damaged from violent activity.

Casual RVS stuff. But I thought you thought that they were called 'WingDamaged'?

I don't like bad people. Why do you like the evil one?

Don't see what you mean here.

@WingDamage: hehe, I see that now that I'm on a larger screen. I misread your name as "WingDamaged" on my iPod. So whose wings will you be damaging tonight? >__>

@Crazy:
1. I've been playing real life mafia for about 10 years with a solid group of friends, with intermittent change-ups. I've played a couple games here on mafiascum, but I was seriously intimidated.
2. I enjoy playing mafia because I love reading people and using my intuition. The latter oftentimes is not accepted among the males... but I am usually pretty accurate. Playing online affords me the chance to read over discussions many times, to get a better feel for people. I'm a horrible liar. I always get caught as mafia. As such, I much prefer to play as an innocent....usually not even as a power role.

~tldr: I like reading people.

You seem to like town... Always a good thing. If you're such a horrible liar though, I'll be watching for any lies, I'm sure the others will be too.

I just set up my wiki!

[http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=L]

No comment

@cjdrum: hehehe, Usually on day 1 or day 2... I have a bad record. Once I made it to the end as Mafia by not saying anything and looking distracted the entire game... Everyone didn't expect that xD

I'd say my best strength is being a prosecutor.

Speaking of which, why are some of your questions to these players pointed, while others are fluffy (for lack of a better word)? 

...

*

@Misder: On two occasions, you have stated your surety of my innocence. I don't trust you; just being upfront. It seems as though you are trying to be my buddy, hoping that I will extend the courtesy of dropping suspicion of you. :/
Why exactly have you pegged me as an innocent?

@Prosaurus: I am in the Eastern time zone (GMT -5). My activity will be sporadic and not limited to certain times of the day. But I will at least post everyday.  Could you expound the game mechanics that make Mafia "fun" for you?

@cjdrum: Regarding "fresh new reason"...

Unvote: WingDamage

This vote was random.

Vote: Misder

Because I am following a hunch; I do not like how he can decide so early in the game that I am innocent.

@McGriddle: Could you share more about how this "winning" occurs?

@MuffinMan: After reading your friend's games, what is one thing you learned? What appeals to you to make this game interesting?

@Romanus: What game mechanics in Mafia appeal to your personality? What are the "itty bitty things" that spurred your vote? Please expand.

@WingDamage: Expound on what is "fun" about mafia by sharing your favorite game mechanic.

@All: Banzaii!! Feed meh

*

So why have you pinned them as scummy? Redirecting attention, or being honest?
As for your hunch, I see your reasoning (Mafia know who's town and who isn't), but it's still too early to pin these labels on anyone.

"clearing" anyone this early in the game is not possible.

True. But this may be scummy. Mafia don't wish people to be cleared, as it makes those people harder to lynch, meaning a night kill must be used on them, but then people will know that person's reads were honest.

@Misder: After reading your post, and evaluating MuffinMan's post - I can't get a read on him at all. Like, nada. What are you reading differently from me? What makes you think he is innocent?

As people in my last game said, Mafia tend to be the ones who can't get reads (Real or false).


I'll be moving on to analysing cjdrum soon enough.

[Prosaurus]

PS: That was a slightly scummy read.

[Misder]

@crazy, its the way she plays and how she says things that I like. Sure, maybe first 2 posts aren't ever going to be definite, but that's why I keep note of things that happen after. And with more posts from her, I still like her play except for maybe a small part, but I will still stand that she has pretty much played town so far.
edit before posting: so it seems like pro is on the opposite side of me on [L] which is fine. I disagree with the analysis on the second to last post- I actually view this as town because it pretty much is true. However, I do agree with analysis on the last post, as it did seem a bit scummy to me also, but I view her posts as overall townplay right now.

@zMuffinMan Your vote on Romanus- is it more due to his first post or his OMGUS vote?

[Prosaurus]

@Misder I know it's true, but I'm trying to think of it from a different angle to what most town players would.
That post there is already giving me a town read on you.

[zMuffinMan]

@Misder

@zMuffinMan Your vote on Romanus- is it more due to his first post or his OMGUS vote?

At the moment, it's a combination of both. I don't like the way he came across in his first post and I don't like the reasoning in his second post. It's not one more than the other.

The 'OMGUS' itself is a pretty small factor to me. It's not so much that he voted for me, but that his reason was rather hypocritical.

A couple questions for you, though:

When you play town, do you only vote for people if you think they're mafia? (Not including any RVS vote)

Suppose you were town in a game where no one voted for anyone else unless they were fairly sure the person they're voting for is mafia, how would you move the game forward?

[Misder]

@zMuffinMan
1) In this type of setup, yes. Well, this is my first time playing this setup so uhh... read 2 for more I guess.
2) In other forums where games are much bigger and fast-pased (like 30 ppl and days are 48 hours), it usually started out with just a random lynch, however, these random lynches first start out from voting to lynch inactives, but of course this will lead to discussion, and then, that's where moving the game forward is very easy. I'll also add that I usually don't even participate in the voting to lynch the inactives. In this type of setup, RVS is kind of the same function as what I'm used to; it'll eventually lead to discussion. However, even without RVS, discussion about anything will eventually lead to something (kind of like RQS I guess, but I'm talking about anything here). Of course, deadline is a great incentive to vote, so even if at the end, no one is "scummy", then there will still be an attempted lynch that will move the game forward.
Hope my answers aren't too confusing. I feel like I just blabbled.

[Romanus]

To answer the questions that have been directed at me:

I believe it is my role to ease players into playing this game that I believe is valuable and fun. I love writing, and it is a great way to exercise my brain and stretch my writing skills. I made a point to post early. I do not want to assume the level of knowledge of any player. And also, considering the mountain of wiki pages dedicated to strategies and scumtells, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has posited that confirmation order could be a scumtell. I hope to accomplish this by explaining different things that are going on if, and when they need to be explained. And also, to be a good player. I will play to win. I will also keep things in a friendly tone. I want to encourage people to play.

The itty bitty thing that I saw zMuff jump on, was the very thing I described above. He voted me for trying to fulfill my role as IC. I'm not sure why, even if done poorly, this is a good reason to vote someone. Now, zMuff may retort, "But my vote was just as unserious as your vote!" To which I would reply, "But I think it was made to look innocent, so that you could push a wagon for an innocent reason."

But you also haven't been pushing, just waiting.

[zMuffinMan]

@Romanus

How was your first post designed to ease players into the game? If I had no idea what RVS was, do you think your post would have helped me?
Why did you feel it was necessary to make a post early?
Do you think your reason for voting me could be construed an innocent reason for pushing a wagon?
Is there a reason you're not pushing, just waiting?

[Romanus]

As IC: I did not just use the abbreviation RVS. I used the words Random Vote Stage, which I think is pretty self explanatory. Are you really accusing me of thinking people are smart and stupid at the same time? Also, I wanted to post early to demonstrate how things kinda work. I don't know how things work on other boards. I also know that the opening of the game is the stage that is the hardest to get through.

As Player: I absolutely think that my reason for voting you could be seen as an innocent reason for pushing a wagon. And yes, there is a reason to wait and not push. Right now is not a very good time to dig your heels in.

The most scummy person I see now is Misder. His posts lack genuine scumhunting.

Unvote
Vote: Misder

[Prosaurus]

As IC: I did not just use the abbreviation RVS. I used the words Random Vote Stage, which I think is pretty self explanatory. Are you really accusing me of thinking people are smart and stupid at the same time? Also, I wanted to post early to demonstrate how things kinda work. I don't know how things work on other boards. I also know that the opening of the game is the stage that is the hardest to get through.

To be honest, I think crazy explained it much better than you did.

[Prosaurus]

Oh, and that's putting him at L-2 on page 3. Not always the best thing to do.