Newbie 1007 - When in Rome, Game Over!

[FEMM the Attorney]

I think Nikitakit could just be a nervous newbie... But there is the point that beefstar brought up about, "if you think we might view it as scummy, don't post it.", there can be some instances where this isn't true, but still.

Fos: Nikitakit

for now. I don't think she needs more votes piled on juuust yet.

[nikitakit]

@nikitakit- explanations are fine, they help us understand each person's intentions. However, your explanation is a little... well, strange, as Yenros has pointed out. Again, in your last post, you say you can see how some of the things in it may be considered scummy. Why mention that? It doesn't make it you look any less scummy if you point it out apologetically. *Town roles generally won't need that, because they'd have nothing to hide and hence can defend themselves from attacks people push on them (*or at least this is just my viewpoint of the game.)

If you think something looks scummy, delete it.
In honesty, you shouldn't be terribly worried about looking scummy, regardless of alignment. Some of the best scumtells are subconscious, so there's not a whole lot you can do about that anyway.

Thanks for the advice.

[Pizzaplate]

Uhm.

@mod, votecount please.

This game's moving rather slowly, isn't it?

[Beefster]

Yes, it is. But I'm going somewhere soon, so there isn't much I can do about that. I'll pop in early tomorrow.

[FEMM the Attorney]

I got overloaded with chores for the weekend. I'll have a post on monday, possibly tuesday if more things come up. Sorry.

[mothrax]

In the process of translating/redoing my personal isos for this game, I usually don't share them but we need discussion. Unless you want them in German you get to wait a few hours.

[Beefster]

nikita: I would like a little more out of you than a thanks. Take my advice into consideration, yes, but post content too...

[Yenros]

What are isos?

On a separate note. Is Flomo going to be replaced? He hasn't posted in a week, and if he either posts or is replaced we might get more discussion.

[mothrax]

Alright... these weren't as hard as I thought they would be...
as an explanation, english is my second language, but only by like a year... (spoke German in my home, english in school). I keep ISO notes on each player, but since german is more natural they are in that language. Thus the translations...
Teaching note: ISO is a great way to get a view of each player in ISOlation. While very usefull I also recommend keeping context in mind as well.



In alphabetic order:

Beefster:
0: RVS vote for doreah via random.org: came right after mine... also intro IC post... nullish read
1: reply to Yenros. L-2 is fine (I agree), L-1 not so much... questions why the vote for him and not splash
2: no rqs. unless it comes down to it
3: answers RQS (scum harder, no LallLurkers, sort of no to LAL.)
4:

I'd like to point out Yenros's reason for voting on me rather than splashy... To avoid voting on someone who already has a vote. Hypothetically, this is great idea, but when you get down to the fact that it is a random vote, it really shouldn't matter as long as you don't reach L-1 or lynch... just think about it.
Exhibit B: nikita, as pointed out by mothrax- a sneaky OMGUS. Really, he has a good point.
And finally, splashy. Definitely possible for random.org to be his excuse. Or he's telling the truth.

this part is wishy washy to me... moving from RVS=townie brownies, but it looks like he is trying to lay groundwork for supporting lynches... Though I do agree with his point on nikita... not so much on yen. unvotes doreah
5: calls nikita out some more(backpeddling) but does not vote, just an FoS (finger of suspicion)
6: hey people need to contribute... (townie brownies?)
7: votes nikita after post 45 but in the same sentence calls it newbtown play. tells people not to post scummy things. (how are we supposed to catch scum?) (possible scumcoaching?)
8: low activity
9: needs more response from nikita (I agree)
overall leaning town, but not ruling out ICscum

Doreah
0: RVS on Pizza for being delic(yummy!)
1: not phased by l-2, huge town points... (beef can elaborate on why if he wants, its postgame talk imo)
2: answer to RQS:( to clear up two, this is the way I see it: Lurking is getting prodded/replaced etc, whereas active lurking is posting fluff and such to avoid prods and still fly under the radar)
Jokingly suggests lynching all nonanime avis! Mothra is oldschool anime, do I count?:)
3:attempts to get conversation started... OMGUS not a scumtell(I disagree to some extent, but agree to another)

FEMM
0: RVS for splasherz
1: Offers RQS, but also questions doreah wagons
2: answers own RQS
3: points fingers at splasherz and flomo for lack of contributing
4: FoS on nikita for the same reasons as myself and beef...
5: promises content
your reluctance to vore nik is noted. also your extended use of FoS as well (I am not a big fan in generally, but that is mainly playstyle, and not an allignment tell)

Flomo
0: confirm and hey
Seriously? thats it? moar content please
(also, that was a week ago... hmmm...)

nikitakit
0: RVS on Pizza, (possible omgus?)
1: answers RQS with the typical responses
2: claims wierd luck from random.org, but retroactively offers explanation for the possible OMGUS.
3: I don't know how to read this... defense of lack of content. Don't just play defense, play offense. And even if someone has voted you, voting them is not always OMGUS. Hunt scum... find a reasons why they might have voted for you and show them (only you really know your role(well, you and your scumbuddy if you are scum) so try and prove it to us) [/teaching hat]
4: thanks for the advice post...
conclusion: I'm happy with my vote because of your defensiveness. not a fan

Pizza(mmmmtasty)
0: RVS on nikitakit
1: vote on yenros
2: explains rvs/rqs
3: answers some questions @ nikitakit, advises against L-1 (I already stated I dont really agree...at least in RVS, unless we have stupid scum, we wont quickhammer... that being said, no quickhammering town plzkthxbai)
4: answers FEMMs questions
5: need content from flomo
6: don't back of from putting multiple votes on people (I agree) votes for the sake of voting... srsly?
7: unneeded explanation of vote on nikitakit:
8: possible coaching of nikitakit
9: asks for votecount
Conclusion: leaning scum: voting for the sake of voting is not a fan.

Splasherz
0: Vote on doreah bc of random.org
1: answers rqs
2: btw i be gurl
3: will be more active soon
conclusion: need moar content!

Yenros
0: rvs beefster (sortof) again, why not myself or splasherz?
1: splash had a vote already
2: splash had a vote already
3: answers rqs
4: ok... I think I see it. (my brain works the same way).
5: wut?
6: hehe, read the top of this post.
conclusion: leaning townish

there ya go.
Conclusion: I am happy with my vote on nikitakit atm, I would like a response to the pressure. I am also leary of Pizza, but I don't really see a connection with nikitakit, but it may be too early inthe game... still iffy on a few other players as well but there are a lot of players we need to hear more from.

[mothrax]

oh yeah, meant to do this last post...

@Hayl: Request round of Prods and Votecount plz!

[nikitakit]

I'll complete mothrax's post with my own analysis:

mothrax
8: vote doreah (first vote on doreah)
21: first to point out possible omgus, says there's no problem with l-1 in RVS
30: also suspicious of doreah votes, answers RQS
36: vote for me, likely to spark discussion
37: comment on my post
55: promises analysis
58: analysis

Notes: first to point suspicion on me, first to vote for me, but has since stayed out of further accusations (excluding this last post). Points out possible scumcoaching as well as FEMM's reluctance to vote for me.

I find this a stark contrast with other players, especially considering how for a long time he was content with other players pressing me without saying much himself. On the other hand, he has just offered probably the biggest piece of analysis to date about players other than me. Since I have no experience judging behavior, I'd like to hear what other people think about this.

[Haylen]

lol I was gonna do one ^_^ Btw, for the record, I'm mostly V/LA at the weekends.

Vote Count

Key: The bits I wrote in brackets indicate how many more votes that player needs to be lynched.

Pizzaplate (L-4) - Nikitakit,
Splashlerz (L-4) - FEMM
Doreah (L-4) - Splashlerz
Beefster (L-4) - Yenros
Nikitakit (L-2) - mothrax, pizzaplate, Beefster
Flomo (L-4) - Doreah

5 votes equals a lynch, you can't unvote after a lynch has occured it won't count. Deadline is Sunday 3rd October at 9pm, GMT+1

[Beefster]

I apoloize for my inactivity. I didn't really have an excuse this weekend, but this week is CRAZY for me. I've got like 2 hours at home every day this week. But I'll do my best to pop in once a day.

[FEMM the Attorney]

Where the hell is everyone? We need way more contribution here. (myself included, but I should be able to get on until next week at least.)
The only reason I didn't vote for nikita was because I wanted to keep my vote on Splasherz for the time being. Also, I was too lazy to count up and see how many votes she had already.
@Nikita: Why did you iso Moth... and just Moth? Is that your only suspect right now, or? That post looks really strange to me.

[Beefster]

mothrax: your megapost is edging on Information instead of Analysis (IioA), which is a scum tactic [IC]it tends to spark content from other people- content that you can hide behind[/IC]
I really hate how you posted notes for every player, not just your scumpicks. I hate even more your fencesitting. [IC]Fencesitting is a good scum tactic because it keeps all players open for fake scumhunting.[/IC]
Also reconsider some of his play earlier- playing devil's advocate and wagon starter...
One specific case- post 36- "see where this leads"

mothrax is legitimately scummy... nikita? suspicious, maybe. Scummy? We'll see.

UNVOTE

VOTE: mothrax

Everyone else: CONTRIBUTE!!!!! We can't find scum if nobody is looking. [IC]Don't be worried about making mistakes, learn from them. This is a newbie game. It's okay.[/IC]

[FEMM the Attorney]

Alright, counted Nikita's votes. She's at L-2. three votes, it takes five to lynch.(Moth, Beef, and Pizza) I'm not putting her at L-1, it is way too soon for that.
...
Too many food screennames.

[nikitakit]

@Nikita: Why did you iso Moth... and just Moth? Is that your only suspect right now, or? That post looks really strange to me.

Moth analyzed all players except himself, so I thought I'd fill in the last player missing. I'm short on time right now, but I hope to post some thoughts on other players later today (tomorrow at worst).

[FEMM the Attorney]

Well, why would one analyze themselves anyway?
Also, I just realised I'd been reffering to you as 'she' when it says your gender is male right there. Sorry. ^^;
I'll post my reads on everyone next post, stay tuned.

[mothrax]

Posted my personal iso notes for all because we needed something to spark discussion. Which it did. Sort of. Yes it is mostly ioa, but its more content than most people. As for wagoning, I think early game wagons are good for town so why is starting one scummy?

[Pizzaplate]

First and foremost, there is no such thing as too many food screennames.
Second, Analyzing yourself is sorta unnecessary since you'd never say you are scummy.

Sidenote: FEMM
Beefster changed his vote right before you said that, so nikita's back to L-3.

thirdish or fourthish, I've been busy with cross country and minecraft, which is free for a short while, so I'm playing it while I can.
abandoning the numbers messed up due to the sidenote, I noticed how mothrax just listed information (YES I KNOW was pointed out by beefster) instead of posting legit attacks on people. I agree that it's scummy to accuse people without stating the reason to do so. For example,

Person A says: Hi my name is fred. I like chocolate milk.
Person B says: "Person A said his name is fred. He also said he likes chocolate milk. I find him scummy."

Of course, it's not as obvious as that, but if you're going to list out everything we post, you might as well tell us which of the posts you find scummy.

Fos: Mothrax

[nikitakit]

As promised, I looked into the behavior of some of the other players. I only see four players who I could possibly have anything to say about: mothrax, FEMM, Beefster, Pizzaplate. Yenros is noted for making a semi-recent post, but when I think of the game to myself I find that your name does not even come to mind.

That said, I find mothrax most suspicious. The recent comments about him are similar to my own impressions (as outlined above), and that's the most concrete read I have.

It's very hard for me to comment on anyone else. When writing the previous post I thought that I would have many things to say, but after re-reading the thread it turns out that most of them are a product of my reaction to being accused. One thing that continues to strike me though was Beefster's tone in #49 with "Sufficient evidence achieved!" There's definitely nothing scummy in getting me to talk, but did anyone else have a reaction to the wording? I can't quite pinpoint the cause for my emotions, but if others see something worthwhile in it I'll give it another go.

[mothrax]

really hate how you posted notes for every player, not just your scumpicks.

Why didn't you say something then when I made it public knowledge I was going to post them? You had a post between mine so I know you were online. If you knew I was going to do something that would cause you to put your IC hat on, why not mention it beforehand?

I hate even more your fencesitting. [IC]Fencesitting is a good scum tactic because it keeps all players open for fake scumhunting

Like I said these are my personal notes which under most activity circumstances wouldn't get shared but considering we have had little to no activity for over a week, something needed to be done other than "come on guys, contribute." posts.
at this point in the game there is not enough info for me to feel 100% one way or anather in my reads. My isos reflect that.
Let me elaborate. Everyone starts at nuetral. Each scummy post tips the scale, and each strong town post the same. At this point in the game most people are leaning nuetral, considering the longest iso at that point was 9 posts...

[doreah]

Hi all,

I wanted to update my isos to take into account the new page and a half of content since last week. I wanted to post more, but there just wasn't much activity until Monday!

Flomo: He's completely gone and I'm not going to waste my vote on him anymore. I will let his replacement do the talking.
FEMM: You haven't seriously voted for anyone yet. Why do you want your vote on Splasherz? You haven't given a reasoning on that. I understand you didn't want to bring nikitakit to L-1 (in post #50/65, even though because of Beefster's change of vote, you would not have), but please explain why your Splasherz vote is now serious.
Splasherz: Brothers don't hog computers for a whole week (and Civ5 didn't come out until yesterday!). Serious concerns with the lack of content here. I'm a girl too, but I didn't make a separate post with no content to say so.
nikitakit: I don't see a serious vote from you either, just your original "not" OMGUS. Who is scum, in your mind? Mothrax? You find him most suspicious, but you don't vote for him. Why?

I think part of the problem is that we're missing two full bodies. If our scum are just lurking (say, for example the scum is Flomo and Splasherz), and the rest of us are just pointing fingers at each other, then how can we get anywhere? That is disappointing at least. I know I'm afraid to point the finger on someone who might end up town, but I think some people need to start making decisions (gut, logic, bandwagon, whatever!).

UNVOTE: Flomo
And because I need to take my own advice, and not be wishy-washy, I VOTE: FEMM.

[Yenros]

Okay, I'm most suspicious of nikitakit right now, and so I'm going to

UNVOTE VOTE:nikitakit

. The reason being the immediate and unneeded defense of what otherwise would have been seen as random IMO.

Other than that, the only other thing I see is mothrax's post with info, but no analysis, though I'm not entirely sure it's scummy. As beefster said, I think you needed the analysis there too. Seems to me that when you post a info like that you should include your analysis, even if it amounts to: "I see every one as neutral right now." Though you mentioned people where leaning scummy, so you obviously have some ideas as to who you think is scummy, you don't have to be 100%, the only way you could be 100% is if you had a role like cop, or you were scum.

[Beefster]

[IC]In fairness, there will be a few people that you have null reads on, but there's no need to announce those (or suspected townies) to the rest of the town without being asked about a specific player. Listed null reads cloud judgment and listed townies give scum a nice little shopping list. If someone asks you for a list including townies, kindly refuse to list suspected townies. Lists should only include your top 2-3 scum picks. In the case when someone asks you about a specific player, do your best to take a side, even if you're indifferent.[/IC]