Mini 811: Foggy Londontown Mafia - Over!

[kikuchiyo]

unvote, Vote: Lowell

So a lurker hunt, is it?

[qwints]

So you took your vote off of Iam and put it on me to make me unvote to make me seem scum?

Not

to make you

unvote -

to see

if you do, under the assumption that scum will be particularly eager to please the town. I have no vested interest in you voting for Iam or not doing so, but I would like to know if you're the kind of role that would cave to town pressure.

Yes. I attacked you to get information going. Likewise, you've done the same to me, and I think it's great. I am in full agreement about the lurkers and hope they will post soon.

I don't like this line of argument. No one questioned the propriety of attacking someone. I, and others, questioned this statement:

Any special reason you removed your vote, Mokina?

I felt like it. Jumping third on a bandwagon is more suspicious than iamausername not replacing the flaker in my other game, so I consider it an upgrade. In any case, I am confident it will generate conversation.

Here you say that jumping third on a bandwagon is suspicious. An anti-town point that nadroj agrees with.

FOS: Mokina, nadroj

[Far_Cry]

unvote

Lowell is lurking and is suspicious, but I'll hold back on my vote for now.

[Lowell]

I've been without internet for two days. Chill out, people.

[DraketheFake]

Everybody please welcome to the game

dank

, who replaces Raivann effective immediately.

Vote Count Two

iamausername:

2 (qwints, Neferenom)

Far_Cry:

2 (Lowell, iamausername)

kikuchiyo:

2 (Hero764, Tenchi)

Lowell:

1 (kikuchiyo)

Not Voting:

5 (dank, Far_Cry Mokina, nadroj15, Wiirdo)

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

[kikuchiyo]

unvote

Lowell is lurking and is suspicious, but I'll hold back on my vote for now.

How is Lowell suspicious?

[Mokina]

How is Lowell suspicious?

Lurkalicious, but he's already explained why.

[kikuchiyo]

How is Lowell suspicious?

Lurkalicious, but he's already explained why.

The question was not directed at you. FC stated that Lowell was lurking

and

suspicious. He has not "already explained why". Your uncalled for defense of FC is noted.

[dank]

Hello all. I'll try to catch up and post my thoughts later tonight.

[Mokina]

Your uncalled for defense of FC is noted.

I was under the impression that FC found Lowell's lurking suspicious.
Lowell explained the reason for his lurking.
I concluded that the cause of FC's suspicions had been addressed.

Anyone trying to follow a town current by attacking a semantic point like this one is notable, as far as I'm concerned.
If you're scum, that's a really convenient way to set yourself up for a vote.

We need 7 votes to lynch. Placing a 3rd "random vote" especially this early is nowhere scummy. because it is not as dangerous as placing a 3rd vote in say, a newbie game.

Bandwagon pressure makes sense, but once a wagon's actually started, it can begin to draw in opportunistic scum. Nom's post, with no explanation and the pretense of RVS (even though we were clearly leaving it), felt like as good a place as any to begin.

[kikuchiyo]

Your uncalled for defense of FC is noted.

I was under the impression that FC found Lowell's lurking suspicious.
Lowell explained the reason for his lurking.
I concluded that the cause of FC's suspicions had been addressed.

Anyone trying to follow a town current by attacking a semantic point like this one is notable, as far as I'm concerned.
If you're scum, that's a really convenient way to set yourself up for a vote.

You do realize that FC was the one "following a town current", don't you? I voted Lowell for lurking. FC said they were suspicious. its not a semantices argument at all.

FC said Lowell was lurking AND suspicious. If they meant that Lowell was suspicious BECAUSE they were lurking, then there is no need to word the accusation in such a manner. To me it reads the same as how you are saying you are reading me: FC set up a convenient way to vote for what may have become a town current. My vote came first(for lurking), then came FC's unvote and accusation of lurking AND suspicion. Get it?

Why are you so interested in defending them?

[Far_Cry]

Your uncalled for defense of FC is noted.

No offense but that sounds lame.

kiku, mokina is not trying to protect me; she actually has some truth in what she says. u on the other hand ar making this more complicated than it is.

i'm not tryin to protect mokina at all; i hav no relations with her. you, on the other hand, ar attempting to exploit me and/or mokina; u ar trying to make us both suspicious and seem like mafia partners. I find that suspicious.

wat also really interests me is why iamausername and lowell hav kept their votes on me and talked about. it makes no sense, since the votes sounded random.

hero also draws suspicion for not contributing much to the discussion.

however i want to here the defenses of these people before i make a vote.

[Far_Cry]

to correct the above, mokina and lowell

did not

talk about it. my apologies

[Far_Cry]

i must be out of my mind. i meant to say iamausername and lowell

[dank]

Some notes:

Neferenom Post 25- Nothing wrong with a 3rd vote here imo, still L-4, but enough votes to see if any scum latch on.

Mokina Post 26/27- Still semi-random. Though I personally dont see the 3rd vote as scummy, i've no issue with Mokina switching.

Far Cry Post 28- Looks a bit iffy to me. Nothing wrong in concept, its just another L-4 vote, but he seems pretty intent on keeping that many votes on username after Mokina unvoted, even as we start to exit RVS with Mokina's question. Reason doesn't make much sense, and did not answer question about Lowell vote.

kikuchiyo Posts 33,34, 38/ Hero Post 35- Like someone else mentioned, looks odd that you're having some irrelevant discussion while the Mokina/Neferenom thing is going on. Almost like you're not paying attention, though I admit its pretty hard to pay attention D1.

qwints Post 37- agreed.

Regarding the Neferenom/Mokina exchange, I think both were trying to test each other, and propelled us through RVS. I don't, however, see anything on either side that's particularly scummy.

Hero764's Post 46- Don't like this post at all.

I'm a little worried that only you and Qwints has really said anything about it though. Hero and Far Cry's comments on it was kind of wasted space and makes them seem a little suspicious. One of those, "hey I'm posting with no real content so I'm not lurking (but not helping either.) At least I know they're reading.

I've just got nothing to add. If you want my opinion on something just ask, of course. Neither of you come out of that looking particularly scummy.

And its only page 2, I hardly think you can accuse anyone of lurking.

Though I agree with neither looking particularly scummy, I don't like the way this is all phrased. "I've got nothing to add" should never be said in any post, nor should "If you want my opinion, just ask". We're scumhunting and trying to figure out who to lynch. You're basically saying that you've got nothing to add, so you'll sit back until someone calls you, which is anti-town. You should be throwing out your opinion as much as you can, and always adding to discussion, this post implies that you want to do neither, which is scummy.

Far Cry Post 52- ..what's the point of unvoting? Are you trying to threaten Lowell? It looks like a quiet backing from the iamausername wagon with a cover of Lowell so no one notices? Yet not actually voting him? Odd.

kikuchiyo Post 60- fair point.

Far Cry Post 61- Yeck. Overdefensive. Distancing from Mokina (kik isn't making you seem like Mafia partners, you are). More overdefensive about votes on him. Points for mentioning hero.


-----

So, not much content to analyze yet. Things I gained from this:

Far_Cry- Suspicious play, but moreso nooby play. It is his first game I believe, and overdefensiveness/other odd things he's done are to be expected. Not all that suspicious of him.

kikuchiyo- I like the questioning/seeking answers on page 3.

Mokina- bit overdefensive of FC, though i'm not too bothered by it. Not really bothered by her questioning Neferenom.

Neferenom- Also not really bothered by questioning Mokina.

Hero764- "I've just got nothing to add" + "If you want my opinion on something just ask" + lurking =

vote: Hero764

Those I didn't mention I don't particularly remember reading, meaning they haven't contributed much content yet.

[Mokina]

FC said Lowell was lurking AND suspicious. If they meant that Lowell was suspicious BECAUSE they were lurking, then there is no need to word the accusation in such a manner. To me it reads the same as how you are saying you are reading me: FC set up a convenient way to vote for what may have become a town current. My vote came

first(for lurking)

, then came FC's unvote and accusation of lurking AND suspicion. Get it?

I went back to look at Far_Cry's post ... seems as if we each read it differently the first time. I thought it was referring to Lowell's absence, whereas you thought there was a second reason. Misunderstanding, sorry to pin a semantic attack on you.

FC hasn't actually resolved whether or not there's an additional reason besides Lowell's absence, but he should. The point about the scumvenience of said vote was good call; duly noted.

[Hero764]

Though I agree with neither looking particularly scummy, I don't like the way this is all phrased. "I've got nothing to add" should never be said in any post, nor should "If you want my opinion, just ask". We're scumhunting and trying to figure out who to lynch. You're basically saying that you've got nothing to add, so you'll sit back until someone calls you, which is anti-town. You should be throwing out your opinion as much as you can, and always adding to discussion, this post implies that you want to do neither, which is scummy.

I've got nothing to add to the Nef/Mokina discussion is what I meant. If I see something I find scummy, obviously I'm not just going to sit back and wait for someone to ask me about it. I was just saying that if you wanted my opinion on what had gone on so far(just the Nef/Mokina debate as of that time) then to ask.

And would you rather me not post at all, rather than address what Nef said about me?

As far as FC's comment goes. I read it as him saying that because Lowell is lurking he is suspicious, since nothing else would really make sense considering he's done nothing except the 'Chill out poeple' post.

hero also draws suspicion for not contributing much to the discussion.

Why single me out?

Wiirdo, Lowell, and Tenchi have also not contributed much. Wiirdo hasn't posted at all since his confirm vote.

[Tenchi]

We need 7 votes to lynch. Placing a 3rd "random vote" especially this early is nowhere scummy. because it is not as dangerous as placing a 3rd vote in say, a newbie game.

Bandwagon pressure makes sense, but once a wagon's actually started, it can begin to draw in opportunistic scum. Nom's post, with no explanation and the pretense of RVS (even though we were clearly leaving it), felt like as good a place as any to begin.

Though it may draw opportunistic scum (and stupid townies, see our newbie game :-p) they will receive the backlash of it and may be under more scrutiny. I don't think our group (or any group in mafiascum for that matter) will lynch anyone within the first few real life days in the game so I don't see why people would push to stop wagons, let alone RVS wagons. So I really find it interesting when people start defending people this early.

Also, I find the "OMG WE FOUD A LURKER" argument funny. Lurking in the first three pages? Let's get to five or six then see who is REALLY lurking.

[Lowell]

kiku votes lowell
someone else unvotes lowell
kiku says "why is lowell suspicious???"
kiku gets angry when someone else explains

people I don't understand: kiku.

[dank]

kiku votes lowell
someone else unvotes lowell
kiku says "why is lowell suspicious???"
kiku gets angry when someone else explains

people I don't understand: kiku.

FC didn't unvote Lowell, he unvoted someone else and threatened to vote Lowell.

[Lowell]

Okay, so, still.

[Hero764]

kiku votes lowell
someone else unvotes lowell
kiku says "why is lowell suspicious???"
kiku gets angry when someone else explains

people I don't understand: kiku.

She thought FC was saying there was another reason you were suspicious besides the lurking, and only wanted his explanation.

[kikuchiyo]

quote="Hero"]As far as FC's comment goes.

I read it as him saying that because Lowell is lurking he is suspicious, since nothing else would really make sense considering he's done nothing except the 'Chill out poeple' post.

[/quote]

Precisely my point. FC clearly stated "lurking" and "suspicious". There was no implication of cause and effect which you seem to interpret. I want to know why FC differentiated between "lurking" and "suspicion". As it is, two people have now given him the easy answer thus negating the effect of my line of questioning.

Note to all: Stop answering questions not directed at you.

unvote, vote: Far_Cry

There reaction was a bit overdefensive and it also COMPLETELY avoided the main question. I am not letting you off so easy. It is up to players to be clear and concise, not depend on others charitable interpretations in order to stay out of the spotlight.

Tenchi: In order to get to five or six pages we need to keep questioning. What was your interpretation of FC's statement, and do you feel my vote on them is warranted?

[Hero764]

Precisely my point. FC clearly stated "lurking" and "suspicious". There was no implication of cause and effect which you seem to interpret. I want to know why FC differentiated between "lurking" and "suspicion". As it is, two people have now given him the easy answer thus negating the effect of my line of questioning.

Its just how you want to interpret his words. When he said, "and is suspicious" I read that as "and therefor is suspicious". Why would he say Lowell was suspicious for a different reason when there was no possible way for there to be a different reason? It doesn't make any sense for him to say what you think he meant, scum or not. You're making a case out of nothing here tbh.

[dank]

Why are you defending him again? He's at L-4, and this isn't something that will likely get more votes than it already has.