Mini 734 - GrimMafia - OVER

[Zer0ph34r]

Oh, I see, Beyond_Birthday.

[Ectomancer]

"Yes what was it", is the cause for your vote? It doesn't appear random to me.

I was echoing Beyond_Birthday's question - if your vote wasn't random, then what was the reasoning behind it?

Random voting is always a good beginning; how else does an uninformed majority ease into finding an informed minority?

Are you deliberately being dense here? You obviously started to read my post because you quoted it. Did you bother finishing it? You know, that part where I tell you why it wasn't random?

Random voting is always a good beginning; how else does an uninformed majority ease into finding an informed minority?

Clearly didn't even read what I said.

You may have heard people espouse that "random voting has information" when the argument comes up over whether a random voting stage should even exist. This is one of those cases where a pro-random vote stage gets a point.

Excuse me, but sloppy play irritates me.

[Ectomancer]

Bah, so many things wrong with that post I failed to get them all.

Nuwen that still doesn't explain why you voted.

[Nuwen]

I was rephrasing my question, as you obviously didn't understand the first time around. Yes, the point is moot now because you answered, but I wanted to clarify my original inquiry.

[zwetschenwasser]

Of the two, this one concerns me more:

zwetschenwasser wrote:
What just happened?

Vote: Ectomancer


You have no idea what happened, yet you decide to vote.

unvote, vote zwetschenwasser

OMGUS?

[Grimmy]

current vote count

SPRINGLULLABY - (3 OF 7)

Zephear
Zachrulez
Pablo Molinero

ECTOMANCER (3 of 7)

Springlullaby
Zwetschenwasser
Nuwen

SIPYLUS (1 OF 7)

Skillit

SKILLIT(1 OF 7)

Ectomancer

NOT VOTING/UNVOTING

Sipylus
Beyond Birthday
PerArdua
JereIC


Keep up the fun
Grimmy

[Zer0ph34r]

Haha, I love how Grimmy spelled my name; Zephear. Love it!

[Beyond_Birthday]

After a rather good vote at the beginning, I am not liking your random vote on zwet, Ecto. I kind of expect better play.

Further, Zer0, stop being cute with your posts and actually contribute. There is plenty to comment on.

And Nuwen, why would you further explain and clarify a question if your question is answered? Do you have a reason to pursue it further that you are not giving?

Skillit, it is passed the RVS and you haven't explained why you are random voting. I understand voting arbitrarily in the event you missed the start of day and don't have time to read, but explaining that would have been far less suspicious. Just commentary, as I am sure this is the case.

[Nuwen]

And Nuwen, why would you further explain and clarify a question if your question is answered? Do you have a reason to pursue it further that you are not giving?

None, other than ensuring clarity of expression. The biggest roadblock in mafia is imprecise or ambiguous explanation. Leaving Ecto's counter-question unanswered benefits no one.

[Ectomancer]

It's not a random vote. While Zachrulez was a good way to get out of the random stage (and with a legitimate point), the only true way to get past that is to begin putting pressure on questionable reactions. There were two of them that I noted, and of the two I felt zwetschenwasser to be more questionable, hence pressure, and I like a vote for pressure. FOS's are alot more rare.
I am continuing to pursue Nuwen as well as you can see. I am still unsatisfied with him because I don't yet see his cause for a vote (though now the opportunity for plagiarism presents itself). 3rd times a charm perhaps? What cause would you assign to your vote Nuwen? What motivated you?

[PerArdua]

vote: Sipylus

because its his birthday, hes from down under, and, again, because. thats why

What the hell is this? Random stage voting? We were out of that stage at my first post.

vote Skillit

Total BS. You don't get to just decide when RVS ends. If we say that the RVS ended when you posted then we never had one at all seeing as how you were the first one to post when the day begun.

If I join a game, make a vote and say it's not random I don't end RVS just by my say-so. I don't then get to attack everyone else for playing naturally with the assumption that there will be a random voting stage. Which is what you are doing.

[Zachrulez]

vote: Sipylus

because its his birthday, hes from down under, and, again, because. thats why

What the hell is this? Random stage voting? We were out of that stage at my first post.

vote Skillit

Total BS. You don't get to just decide when RVS ends. If we say that the RVS ended when you posted then we never had one at all seeing as how you were the first one to post when the day begun.

If I join a game, make a vote and say it's not random I don't end RVS just by my say-so. I don't then get to attack everyone else for playing naturally with the assumption that there will be a random voting stage. Which is what you are doing.

Uhhh... that vote was made on page 2 after discussion had started taking place.

[PerArdua]

I was referring to "We were out of that stage at my first post.' Sorry, I should have made that clearer

[Ectomancer]

I was referring to "We were out of that stage at my first post.' Sorry, I should have made that clearer

Do you, or do you not agree that the random stage was way over when Skillit voted for Sipylus?

If so, why are you nitpicking? Eyeballing my 3 votes and wondering if you can push it a bit?

If not, read on.

I've got news for you that you might not like. The random stage is indeed over when a vote is placed that is not random. Learn to like it. The random stage isn't a merry-go-round that everyone gets to ride on before the actual game begins. Games have begun without a random vote stage at all.

In other words, yeah, its over when I or any other player says it's over.

[zwetschenwasser]

How is my response questionable? I like thinking you're an evil wizard...

Ecto: Overreaction much?

Beyond-Birthday: You're trying to control the action and convince the world that you're the most involved by prodding people. I don't see any reason why we can't still post cute stuff.

[Zer0ph34r]

You think I'm cute? Sweeeeeet! Anyway I ain't got much to say, I think we all in a sense based our original votes off of something of no importance.

[PerArdua]

You see, I define the end of RVS as when the majority of the town are actually making posts of content and true playing. When you say that your vote is not random you can't just assume that everyone else is going to hop on board with you. There are plenty of times that is said in joke random votes.

Thus, in this case, I see the RVS ending on the first post of page 2 because that marks the point where the town as a majority began to give actual reasons for votes. If it ended, as you say, when you posted why did you not call out Zer0ph34r or Beyond_Birthday for random voting in posts 19 and 23 respectively?

To be fair, you did also call out zwetschenwasser for his RV but I still see your premise as being invalid. I simply do not agree that RVS ends when only 1 player says it does.

[Beyond_Birthday]

How is my response questionable? I like thinking you're an evil wizard...

Ecto: Overreaction much?

Beyond-Birthday: You're trying to control the action and convince the world that you're the most involved by prodding people. I don't see any reason why we can't still post cute stuff.

This is no excuse, but when your current game is going 30 something pages on day friggin 2, you kind of want things to be up to the same pace every where. Sorry.

@Peraudua: Kind of a moot point. It isn't going to lead anywhere, in my opinion. Still, I don't see what the big deal is about rv late, as long as you clarify that it isn't serious and then make a hasty effort to catch up as to not leave things at random and unattended. That is my problem with the post, but again: moot point.

[JereIC]

You see, I define the end of RVS as when the majority of the town are actually making posts of content and true playing. When you say that your vote is not random you can't just assume that everyone else is going to hop on board with you. There are plenty of times that is said in joke random votes.

Thus, in this case, I see the RVS ending on the first post of page 2 because that marks the point where the town as a majority began to give actual reasons for votes. If it ended, as you say, when you posted why did you not call out Zer0ph34r or Beyond_Birthday for random voting in posts 19 and 23 respectively?

He's got a point about Skillit. You can argue whether or not we were out of RVS at post 19 or 23 - by his definition we were, by yours we weren't - but by post 43 it was pretty clear everyone else thought we were into the meat of the game already.

[springlullaby]

PerAdua, your assessment of Ectomancer's play so far please.

[Ectomancer]

PerAdua, your assessment of Ectomancer's play so far please.

Seconded. I'm confounded by a player so determined to get their random voting phase. Random vote away. Please get it out of your system so that you can play the game with the rest of us.

Of the two, this one concerns me more:

zwetschenwasser wrote:
What just happened?

Vote: Ectomancer


You have no idea what happened, yet you decide to vote.

unvote, vote zwetschenwasser

This is no over-reaction Zwet. You claim to have no idea what is going on, but throw an unexplained vote on me. Calling this OMGUS is a failed attempt at dismissing the thrust of the argument. Either explain yourself without the blonde in your eyes or expect to be further pressured, and I damn well hope that it won't be just from me.

[zwetschenwasser]

I already answered that I was joking when I said I was confused, and I liked voting for the same person twice, as your name does sound like an evil wizard. Sheesh, lighten up!

[Ectomancer]

Ok, I'll accept that as a final answer on that topic.

[PerArdua]

PerAdua, your assessment of Ectomancer's play so far please.

I'll do you one better, here are my thoughts on everyone thus far:


Granted it's a bit early to be doing this but here goes. Also, I play where every other player is a neutral party until proven otherwise. The number at the end of each sentence is where I feel they fall in my scum - town range, 50 being purely neutral. (1 being confirmed scum 100 being confirmed town.

Beyond_Birthday

- Active player with plenty to contribute. He doesn't just throw his vote around willy-nilly but rather posts with intelligence.

58

Ectomancer

- I personally dislike the playstyle of voting every which way in order to apply pressure. To be clear, I wouldn't choose it for my own playstyle. It is very helpful when someone else does it and then the rest of the town can gauge the reactions. He's slightly harsh but I have only seen 1 post of his that was not contributing to the game. I still disagree with his definition of end of RVS but I suppose it is indeed moot.

55

JereIC

- Can't really get a good read either way. Everything he's said and done can go either way.

50

Nuwen

- Has really only talked with Ecto in defense of his own vote. He explains his vote and admits it is no longer of use (as it was only to pressure an answer to a question that has been responded to) but he has not yet retracted his vote. This may just be an overlook on his part but when there's nothing else to go on for my opinion on him I see him at about a

45.

Pablo Molinero

- Will be needing a prod soon. Nothing to base a read on.

50

Sipylus

- Voted to confirm and has not returned. After a quick post search he has been posting plenty in other places which tells me that he has been online and has chosen to to contribute to this game. I'm not digging that.

35

Skillet

- Also nothing to really base off of. I see his vote for Sipylus as him believing we were still random voting and because he hasn't been online since I get null tell on him. [Completely not game-related:I see he goes to WSU. Disgusting. (I live in the U-district of Seattle)]

50

springlullaby

- In re-reading his posts I initially got a slight scum vibe but his last few posts have moved him back into neutral territory. Specifically, he was originally harsh and gave no reason for his vote put me off but his responses have been more than satisfactory.

50

Zachrulez

- Not really much to say on him. Not enough posts to really rub me one way or the other. I disagree with Ecto's first contention because of the fact it was RVS and being familiar with someone is as good enough of a reason for a vote as any other in that stage.

50

Zer0ph34r

- He has posted plenty but has contributed absolutely nothing in his posts. No game talk, no questions, just chatter.

45

zwetschenwasser

- Again, nothing really to go off of. His responses to Ecto have satisfied me.

50

I realize this is totally unnecessary at this stage in the game, but seeing as I came in a bit late I figured I'd let everyone know exactly what I am thinking.

Out of everyone, I really don't like the fact that Sipylus has only posted to confirm in this thread but has had no problem remaining active in his other games. As such:

Vote: Sipylus

Get into this game.

Also,

to mod

and all, I will have no access this friday to sunday. I will be out in the mountains with my girlfriend and will return monday.

[Ectomancer]

Its interesting anyhow. People not far off the 50 mark, which at this stage they really shouldn't be. I don't know that I consider a lurker to be a 35 though. Personally I think that lurker = scum is way overrated. Lurker = anti-town, that's a valid sentiment, but my own experience tells me that lurking is a universal trait.

What do you believe is an appropriate number of votes on a lurker? Let's take the current situation as the example.