[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[callforjudgement]

The only reason for the scum not to join is that it takes away their second nightkill, right?

OTOH, the second nightkill is pretty powerful. Interesting choice.

[Hoopla]

I think I would join asap to get Cop Immunity. Double NK's are strong, but less so when there is a risk you'll hit the other scum or the Cop flukes a guilty on you. It might be better for balance if you gave each Goon a 1-shot BP ability that only works while single.

[Staeg]

Losing the BP upon join wouldn't mean anything, anyway.

[Hoopla]

Losing the BP upon join wouldn't mean anything, anyway.

True.

[IceGuy]

The only reason for the scum not to join is that it takes away their second nightkill, right?

Exactly.

Basically, the way I intend this to be played is that first, the two Goons go their separate ways, killing off people quickly with their two kills, and when crosskills and successful investigations become more probable due to less players being around, join for the protection of no cop investigations and possibility to win even when dead.

I think I would join asap to get Cop Immunity. Double NK's are strong, but less so when there is a risk you'll hit the other scum or the Cop flukes a guilty on you. It might be better for balance if you gave each Goon a 1-shot BP ability that only works while single.

As Staeg said, losing the BP is rather irrelevant. The point of the cop is to provide an incentive to join (above the crosskill possibility).

I could imagine replacing the cop with some weaker PR, though (for instance, a Watcher).

[callforjudgement]

Watcher's arguably

stronger

than cop; guessing who's going to die is often easier than guessing who's scum.

Also, multiple scum NKs get more powerful as time goes on.

[gorckat]

What about 1 shot BP and a vig?

[Staeg]

Also, multiple scum NKs get more powerful as time goes on.

As does the chance of crosskilling.

[IceGuy]

What about 1 shot BP and a vig?

Don't like it - too many kills, and it would make it optimal strategy to never join before Night 2.

[Phillammon]

Sounds a lot like my "Common cause" idea, but looks okay.

[IceGuy]

I just checked your idea - actually, the two setups are completely different except for the fact that two scum can somehow join forces.

It's coincidence, though - I didn't remember your setup.

[Phillammon]

SOrry, my bad.

[animorpherv1]

I know this is old, but I don't view this subforum much.

@Hoopla: For your 'Experiment Mafia', these would be my choices:

(1)

Odd Night Tracker

(1)

Doctor

(1)

2-shot Jailkeeper

(2)

Roleblocker

(2)

Watcher

(3)

Death Miller

vs. SK with Unlimited Night Kills & Ninja/Strongman

and then for your simplified version:

Town:

(1)Doctor

(1) 1-shot Vig

(2) 2x Masons

(3) Cop

Mafia:

Godfather

Roleblocker

vs. Serial Killer with Odd Night Cop Immunity, (Use 2 black), Even Night Cop Immunity, (Use Blue), (1) 1-shot Kill (Use Blue), 1-shot Daykill (Use 2 blue + pink)

[gorckat]

Joining Forces

1 Sicilian Mafia Goon

1 Calabrian Mafia Goon

1 Jailkeeper
1 Single Goon Cop
9 Vanilla Townies

At first, the Sicilian and the Calabrian Mafia Goons don't know each other, have separate NKs and SK-like win conditions.

At any point, they can indicate to the mod they'd like to "join". When both of them have indicated their desire to join (and they're alive), they'll become Mafia Goons at the beginning of the next Night. That means they'll get a QT with nighttalk, have a factional NK (instead of their separate ones) and their win condition becomes the usual Mafia one.

The Single Goon Cop gets a "guilty" on both Goons, but only up until including the Night they joined; after that, they always get "innocent".

What about swapping a townie for a Traitor Cop who wins with any living Goon?

ADD: Perhaps a late-game vig would balance the late game immunity the Goons get? Something like a N3+ vig who loses his kill once a Goon is dead?

[IceGuy]

What about swapping a townie for a Traitor Cop who wins with any living Goon?

ADD: Perhaps a late-game vig would balance the late game immunity the Goons get? Something like a N3+ vig who loses his kill once a Goon is dead?

Those additions would go against the spirit of the setup. The point of the setup is letting the Goons decide whether and when the tradeoff "double kill vs. single kill + cop immunity + no crosskills + joint wincon" is worth it.

[gorckat]

Gotcha. I had a feeling I was veering off into what "I thought was cool".

[BK201]

Donner Party.

I'm hosting this game soon under its exact mafiascum details, but I am thinking of making it 13 player instead of 12. I would add 1 VT. Would this favor town too strongly? or would it be good for balance?

[GreyICE]

It wouldn't change the game much at all, might actually push it a little more scum sided (night kills less likely to hit scum). It's hard to tell with any setup where the night kills outnumber the lynch so badly.

[BK201]

I'm hosting this off-site. Would it be crazy if I added 2 VTs?

[Hoopla]

I think if you were to alter it, one more VT wouldn't change the gameplay too much - it might even be an improvement, as town has a slightly higher chance of getting an additional day, which makes lynching scum and earning flips more meaningful.

[Tierce]

A side note from someone who just ran a Donner Party game: Make sure you have a motivated playerlist before hosting it. If the town doesn't get things right from the very beginning, the no-reveal is very demotivating and frustrating (well--it's Donner Party, should be par for the course, but you want your players to have fun ). The setup can be radically swingy depending on very few action/lynch choices.

[BK201]

I just announced to them that I'm changing it to 13 player, +1 VT.

At Poxnora(a game) in the off-topic section we are pretty awesome. We're a small, but enthusiastic group. I put the sign-up thread up about an hour ago and already have 11/13 players. I hope the swingy-ness isn't gamebreaking, but I'll let you guys no how it goes.

Thx

[BK201]

Is Tit for Tat a good set-up? The history on the wiki of it has 6 or 7 games played and only 1 town win. What might be wrong with it, if anything?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Bringing this one back from a few years ago to talk about. With some slight modifications and a name change

S or M

2 mafia
5 Townies
1 Cop- sanity confirmed

And there's a 50/50 chance of the following options:
an un-nightkillable Survivor (Survivor can win with scum and survivor can win with town).
OR
an additional townie that's a miller (they are not told) and one member of the mafia is investigation-immune.

This set up is designed to create a balanced setup using a survivor. In addition, there are a lot of cool gambits and possible ramifications of the night actions. (survivor claiming or not, the survivor can figure out who the mafia are and then work with them to win, cop results can be guaranteed to be correct if and only if the survivor dies... in that sense the town might want to lynch the survivor, the mafia can find out who the survivor is by night killing).

There's a few modifications I'm considering
1) Cop headstart vs not headstart
2) Survivor has a 1-shot role-blocking power (after the cop is dead or other modification), or some sort of power.
3) Mafia has a role blocking ability or 1-shot rolebocking, perhaps if there is no survivor.

The title refers to there being a

S

urvivor or a

M

iller, in is supposed to be a pun on S&M

this is semi-open, not fully-open, I guess.

[IceGuy]

Wouldn't play due to survivor and hidden miller. A question: does the II goon get told he is II?