Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[Pine]

Dude, I spent half the game frothing at the mouth over Tywin. I was on most of the Townie lynches and off the only scum lynch, whom I was TRing and actively defending. This is not a good game for me. Mutually TRing Titus was about the only good thing I did this game.

[Elbirn]

No, I never implied Pine WOULDN'T do it, just that he SHOULDN'T EXPECT TO WIN doing it.

Why aren't you scum? I think it's more a number thing than any shining town beacon thing you've done. I don't see town having room for a 3x roleblocker, but that's the exact style of role I'd give scum (or JK, I guess..). My issue with you yesterday was that you went "it's pine or tywin" for two very different reasons. I thought you were talking to Titus as if 'this is foolproof' logic style, which I thought you just played both sides of the coin.

Yeah hang on I just reread this

You're saying that pine as scum intentionally made a move that he knew would make him lose? Am I parsing this right?

[Elbirn]

Dude, I spent half the game frothing at the mouth over Tywin. I was on most of the Townie lynches and off the only scum lynch, whom I was TRing and actively defending. This is not a good game for me. Mutually TRing Titus was about the only good thing I did this game.

Yeah but if you're scum then you did some nut job shit to throw everyone off and idk in general you've been widely townread which is pretty key to scum success

[Elbirn]

....I'm not sure if you just town-told like a motherfucker or if this is my gut being wrong again.

[Aj The Epic]

No, I never implied Pine WOULDN'T do it, just that he SHOULDN'T EXPECT TO WIN doing it.

Why aren't you scum? I think it's more a number thing than any shining town beacon thing you've done. I don't see town having room for a 3x roleblocker, but that's the exact style of role I'd give scum (or JK, I guess..). My issue with you yesterday was that you went "it's pine or tywin" for two very different reasons. I thought you were talking to Titus as if 'this is foolproof' logic style, which I thought you just played both sides of the coin.

Yeah hang on I just reread this

You're saying that pine as scum intentionally made a move that he knew would make him lose? Am I parsing this right?

Yeah, because a role block on a townie to claim no kill should incriminate the role blocker.

[Elbirn]

So then does it not follow that I must be scum?

[Aj The Epic]

...?

[Elbirn]

You're saying that if Pine were scum he wouldn't do that and expect to win.

It should thus follow that scum wouldn't do that because they would lose

I don't see how you don't therefore reach the conclusion that I'm scum based on PoE, and instead you want to push Pine.

[Pine]

Yeah, I'm sold.

VOTE: AJ

[Elbirn]

Hi I'm town now

[Elbirn]

You're saying that if Pine were scum he wouldn't do that and expect to win.

It should thus follow that scum wouldn't do that because they would lose

I don't see how you don't therefore reach the conclusion that I'm scum based on PoE, and instead you want to push Pine.

Aj I'm still gonna want a response to this, if you're town, me getting into your head is what's gonna save this game.

[Pine]

Hi I'm town now

Yay I chose right!

[Aj The Epic]

As if you're actually having to worry... and that post sounds fake as shit too.

You're saying that if Pine were scum he wouldn't do that and expect to win.

It should thus follow that scum wouldn't do that because they would lose

I don't see how you don't therefore reach the conclusion that I'm scum based on PoE, and instead you want to push Pine.

So if I have to go into detail about what's my thought process has been:

Pine v Sonia requires 1 of them to be scum except with outside interference from Rolecop (what Titus had been suggesting).
In this situation, a couple lynches out of LYLO and needing THREE MISLYNCHES TO WIN THE GAME it looked like complete and utter suicide for Pine to be scum and make that claim. This was my primary reason for believing him to be telling the truth.

Because of this, that's why I looked at Tywin. It STILL doesn't make sense as to why Pine makes that gambit to me. That, and I've had the lagging feeling that Tywin might be scum (as I claimed multiple times before, and even said that I would not allow Tywin to survive in a lylo because his play has been... too survivalist and kinda unproductive). That, and I've had next to no reasons to scumread Pine all game. It wasn't that I was explicitly townreading him after d1, just had no reason to ever scum read him.

But here we are in LYLO knowing all the roles (especially the Gerry Mason BG flip) and it seems really weird for Pine's role to exist. I've spelled out how scum has to find this gambit (Motion detector Pine N1? and notice no action. Have a role cop that THEN goes back to Pine and sees he's actually a 3x role blocker. Put together that Pine still has a shot, gambit that Pine won't block them, no kill and get a mislynch). To me, this scenario is fucking stupidly unlikely. To the point that 'Pine isn't planning to win this game by making this move' is a lot more acceptable than the events that have to take place for this gambit to work properly.

Also Pine yesterday didn't want to go back into night and instead started pushing me before the No Lynch vote. This makes his vote all too transparent that he was just waiting for his vote to 'look' good more than actually give a shit. And at this point, you've very well proved yourself to be town (you had the hammer opportunity) so there's no question about that.

VOTE: Pine

I think it's kinda obvious that now the ball's in your court here.

[Pine]

I didn't want to go back into night because Titus was the only person I was sure is Town, and therefore the only opinion I could trust. Going to night risks losing that insight. Also, 3v1 MYLO requires a unanimous vote against someone, whereas 2v1 LYLO just requires one Townie to vote the other.

Will address the rest when I get home

[Aj The Epic]

Risk losing her insight? Titus knew very well what happened if we went to night so how do you explain avoiding it when Titus was perfectly fine with it?

And earlier you talked about "Why would I kill Titus". It's because she was the ONLY option for you to kill. Because I bet you hold the same policy I do: No confirm town goes to LYLO. And dead Titus is infinitely more supportive of you than alive titus for your arguments.

[Pine]

Confirmed Town who TRs you is awesome in LYLO. Try again.

[Aj The Epic]

Confirmed town who's dead and townreads you and can't change that read is even cooler because you just put words in their corpse's mouth and take it as fact.

[Pine]

Yeah, but I don't kill Titus. She's been hard TRing me for ages. I bring that to LYLO.

[Aj The Epic]

It's funny to full on see you lying to my face in particular because you already revealed that you're scum to me.

[Aj The Epic]

Like yeah you're saying you wouldn't kill Titus but here we are and yes you did.

[Elbirn]

*sips wine* yesss, yesssss, fight for my love



Uhm lord idk what to do

Spoiler: Some ck posts I care about

VOTE: elbirn

Also i scummoned aj.

lold

@aj he asked me, and no i havent but i saw her scumplay in our game

VOTE: aj

hi aj, glad ure making content

UNVOTE:

VOTE: pine

shoulda bought one in the 90's like me

Hi there, im glad youre popping out, do you still think titus is mefia?

Cabd you should take it easy and relax, smalltalk is also indicative

Anyway, nero cain what do you think of tywin/alisae/titus trifecta

VOTE: alisea

oh thats better lmao at least it works better with you read UNVOTE:

VOTE: pine going back there

VOTE: pine going back there

Hey don't you start playing anti-town now

What is anti town about it, i voted him 10 pages ago and he never went back to out his reads like he said he would, i also think his d1 was forced

UNVOTE: trans also had a tr on tywin im curious about his assessment of recents posts

just gonna VOTE: Cloud for that early interaction with Cabd; so awkward.

what more awkward is you voting me for first page posts when theres 50 pages of content and much more things to read into

Nos, can you work with me there and tell me whats your reads on the table ? youve been a blind spot null in my reads so far

Nero, whyd you forget to list me ?

Titus is town, tywin is town, aj looks town, sonia is gut town with pro reads that are just like mine. Sbm might be playing a great scumgame btw, elbirn looks town enough, gamma with the mason comment looks ridiculously town

Cloud basically did nothing but push town...except for when he voted for each of you once. With no context or explanation either. It's different from how he pushes town, like he voted me for reasons and alisae for reasons. You two he just naked votes and never explains. He does vote pine for more/longer and ends the day saying that aj is townie now (based on....I don't know what.)

Uhm....I noticed that the way ck treated his scumbuddies nos and nero is that he would reach out to them like "hey guys what up glad to see ya", which is something he also does towards aj (idk if I quoted that example though), but not pine.

Wordswordswords

[Elbirn]

It's also notable that cloud treated both nero and nos like a dick. Like post 1297 and his treatment of nero as mentioned before. But does this without scumreading or pushing them. I can't say that I saw an example of him treating either of you two like this but yeah.

Srsly though, can we play Mafia?

Moar Lapsa votes please.

why you tryna get serious 3 pages in smh

Aaand this is the only mention of either of you in nos' iso. P worthless.

[Elbirn]

Srsly though, can we play Mafia?

Moar Lapsa votes please.

why you tryna get serious 3 pages in smh

Is there a reason why he shouldn't?

yeah: its weird. Games usually get out of RVS at least page 5-6 usually around 10, but he's ripping everyone out of their comfort zone at page 3. To my understanding, scum are usually uncomfortable during RVS and it looks like he's trying to circumvent that completely by getting everyone out of RVS ASAP.

Oh yeah this one too

So he pushes pine for bullshit? Sorta? Never mentions nero...or aj.

[Aj The Epic]

Thing is, he's literally 500 posts late to adjust it and town was universally town read. There's absolutely no harm to do that for Nos.

[Elbirn]

So your counter-point there is that it's a safe way to distance?

I'm still not certain but maybe. He never mentions nero at all though, seems he'd be apt to ignore his buddies.

Any thoughts on anything else?