Mini #553: Over!

[ting =)]

That post makes me think you're town. Until I start wifoming myself.

[Shamrock]

... so I just wrote out a big argument about how scummy my predecessor was? :/

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Dude, it looks like you're metaphorically falling into your avatar because of that.

Anyway, I'm about 1/3 through. I'll definitely finish this weekend, but I don't know if I will be able to format it by then. It seems like most people have an aversion to 4,000 word posts (which is what this may end up being) So I need to fracture it.
I also need to take time to make sure I don't throw my suspicions all over the place (a mistake I made last game).

So, to sum it up, if discussion drags over teh weekend, I could probably post some not entirely finished thoughts, but if there is a discussion going on, I wouldn't bother interrupting it with a semi-complete post.

mod: please edit 458 and 463 so that they read correct also.

It just makes it less confusing, which, after what's happened this game, would be nice.

[massive]

I'm going to reread this afternoon and see what I think, but I bet this confusion has given us a clue as to the alignment of the two replacees.

[Khelvaster]

You have a point. I don't think it's entirely implausible that scum had safe claims, though. They're not the most common of things but they do turn up often enough that you have to take them into consideration when you're talking about doing any kind of claiming in a theme (or formerly theme) game. I know I gave them out in one game I modded because I was afraid I'd used up all the big-name roles as townies and the scum wouldn't have anyone to claim, and it's not entirely imopssible that that's what the mod of this game figured.

I think it's already been established that scum don't have a problem because of the number of names in LoTR.

On a completely different note, why do you want to summarize why your predecessor was scummy?

[Matt_S]

On a completely different note, why do you want to summarize why your predecessor was scummy?

Did you miss the mod confusion about who replaced who?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

mod: want to delete the above post and this post? The previous post was a mistake

ACK! I would like to apologize for that! I was playing around when I was writting my summary of the game and was trying to make a kind of visual pun off of "cover your bases" and "cover your ass"
and I hit submit instead of preview.

Needless to say, I feel like a total idiot. And now, the pun is completely ruined.

[ting =)]

Heh. I wasted five minutes reading the past few pages trying to figure out who you were calling an ass and why until I decided to look at the post below it.

mod:

If you decide to delete his posts, just delete this one too. =)

[Matt_S]

So I've had a feeling that Qman has been intentionally ignoring this game even after Mert was replaced. Considering he's posted elsewhere since Mert was replaced, I'm going to go with this option.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

mod: are there possibly anti-town roles given fellowship names?

You explained that there were anti-town and pro-town roles outside of the fellowship.
Sorry that I keep on bothering you.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

About Matt_S

: I will be the first person to agree that Matt_S has continuously acted scummy through both days. But no matter what he says or does, I still can't wrap my head around him being scum due to the "unnamed townie" stuff from Day One. In a themed game, with players debating the potential of a mass nameclaim, you do NOT stick your neck out and claim "unnamed townie" if you are scum. It will lead you to a sure lynch if the town goes through with the nameclaim and all have names -- it very nearly led to Matt_S's lynch even WITHOUT the nameclaim. The proper path to take (as scum) is the one CoolBot took -- hint at as much as possible without outright agreeing with anything. I just think it's too huge a gambit that has too high a potential of catastrophic fail.

Yes, it has a measure of WIFOM, but now that we KNOW there were unnamed townies in the original configuration of the game (thanks to eljcko), it unfortunately makes it MORE likely that Matt_S is unnamed townie as well.

I think it's reckless to try and lynch him now.

QFT QFT QFT QFT
I finished my read-through of the game, and one of the main themes in my read through is summarized here. Anyway, I guess I'll post more analysis, though I do not have a vote yet.
I will try to get a vote in by next weekend.

On another note: I have my AP chemistry test on tuesday. I'll be braindead the next few days most likely. I'll most likely post more thursday or so.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I’m writing these thoughts as I read it, so sorry if there isn’t any general cohesiveness. I know that I most likely won’t have any suspects from my initial read through, but then again, I might. I’m writing this before I even started reading the game (although I did read who died day/night one initially)
I’m writing it like this for two reasons:
1) so you know I’m not lying or just following along with what other people said, bla bla bla, this isn’t the real reason
2) I’m lazy and it’s easier to write as I go.

I also would like to apologize because in many parts of the post I forgot that Talitha was dead. Anything I put parantheses around and italicize is something that I'm adding to it. Those words are words I've written after I finished my read through.

~~~part one~~~

[

the following in small type is what I wrote based on my origional ideas. I had no idea that the game was themed and I was extremely confused. I also had recieved an unthemed role pm prior to reading this

)

page 1. Wow! What an interesting first page. As for the name-claiming
Ah! Most of what I was going to post here I got rid of because of Matt_S’s post on 17. All I can say, is that I was extremely confused by Khelvaster’s role-claim suggestion. It doesn’t add up with my role pm.

page 2, It took me a while to wrap my head around Matt_S’s argument on post 28, but I think I finally get it. Based on what Matt_S has said (still 28) I’m starting to believe his soft-claim as vanilla. I have to be cautious to not reveal what is in my role pm, but I agree that Khelvaster may be a power role. I hope that (if we have one) the doctor will protect Khelvaster, although without a cop to investigate him, it might not be the best action. To Matt_S, post 30, you are definitely not the only one who has this information. (not to self: As I’m reading the summary it seems like Matt_S is standing out the most. I’m going to try to make sure I look at everyone else.)
Khelvaster goes fishing for the information that Matt_S has on post 34.
CoolBot (the G-dFather) thinks that Khel was “fishing” for information (37). Wow, now that I agree with a mafia member, I’m going to have to go back on my original thoughts.
Right now it really appears like Khelvaster is pro-town.
Another thing (that I realized as I read post 38 by eljcko), is that CoolBot claimed that he wasn’t in the fellowship. Since it would appear that the fellowship is pro-town, one would think that CoolBot would want to claim part of that? That makes me think that he was telling the truth, and that the mafia are indeed not part of the fellowship. I feel that there is some huge glaringly obvious detail I’m missing here. Please point it out. Anyway, if I didn’t miss any cool detail, it would give credence to Khelvaster being a pro-town power role.

DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT!!!! Ah ok so apparently this game was originally a theme game? And it got moved? So all my previous thoughts about role-claims and stuff goes way out of the window. Omg I’m pissed. So all the stuff I was being secret about was that I never got a name in my role pm either. Except for, the catch is, I recently pmed the mod and found out that the reason I don’t have a name is because my pm was sent after this game got moved out of theme. So basically, everything I have thought about before is completely useless. I was really siding with Matt_S since I also “didn’t” have a role name, but now I know it’s only because I came in after the theme ended.
So now I guess I’ll just analyze what happended:

Khelvaster: A sudden idea is going through my head. I wonder if it gets mentioned later in this game.
Crazy assumption:

I’m willing to bet that Khelvaster is a townie, or at the least a mafia member, but he aint no stinkin pro-town power role.

Logic: Ok, so the mod said that

In light of this, I will tell you that having a name assigned to your role does not indicate a power role, and there was most definitely roles outside the real (lol) fellowship, which wasn't a sign of scum or pro town, either. How ever if you did have a name you will no longer. Yes, I am evil.

Why does this mean Khelvaster isn’t a pro-town power role? Well I’m glad you asked.
You see, Khelvaster seemed (to me) pretty confident that

a mass nameclaim would work here

It seems like he assumed that everyone had a name

12/12 people in the fellowship in this mini. 9 people in the real fellowship. 3-scum game is appropriate for 12 players

He thought that everyone had a name, because

he

had a name.
Now if he was a pro-town power role, he would

expect

to have a name, and he wouldn’t expect everyone else would have a name. (I hope you’re following my logic so far…}.
But, if on the off-chance that he was given a name that was part of the Fellowship when he wasn’t a pro-town power role, he would assume that all townies received a name. (“9 people in the real fellowship”).
Of course, he could be a mafia member that was given a role with the name of someone in the fellowship, since our mod said that pro-town and anti-town roles could be in and out of the fellowship.
Still, I’m more confident (based on SOLELY THIS. Keep in mind I haven’t looked past the second page of the game yet) that Khelvaster is a vanilla since our mod explicity said that

having a name assigned to your role does not indicate a power role

.
So yeah. That’s my crazy assumption #1, we’ll see how well this fits in with the rest of Khelvaster’s play this game. (

it fits. Khelvaster is either scum or a vannilla

)


Matt_S: so he pretty much said that he wasn’t given a name. I’m suddenly realizing that as I’m writing this, it doesn’t do the town any good to let them know who I think is a power role or not. Unless three people want me to, (this will probably ensure that at least one townie wants me to reveal) I will not reveal my crazy assumption on Matt_S. I will tell you this, though. If Matt_S ever claims a power-role, I will either be A)extremely doubtful or B)extremely supportive. I will not reveal which unless three people want me to, since it may hurt us at this point. When Matt_S claims, I have A type of case prepared.
Coolbot: I believe that he was not given a name that is in The Fellowship. If he did, he would have announced that in post 14, since it would have made him seem very townie. Saying he didn’t have a name was a pretty risky move (UNLESS***) that he didn’t need to make. Coolbot was probably not given a name, or he was given an anti-town name.
***Maybe Coolbot was given an anti-town name, and since he saw that Matt_S didn’t have a name he sided with Matt_S. He would have done this because he would have known that Matt_S is pro-town. Do you see what I’m doing here? I’m just throwing out a bunch of my ideas around. I wouldn’t taken any of my points too seriously to the point of guiding or stopping a lynch; however, I believe this ideas can be helpful for us to be more sure that we lynch correctly. I’m hoping my ideas here can end up helping us. We’ll see. (

i'm realizing now that I discounted the mod giving the scum safe-claims. It's because I didn't/don't know how usual safe-claims are

)

I’m going to stop analyzing that part of the claiming here, because I realize the only thing I’m able to draw from this is who has a power-role and who doesn’t. For reasons that I believe are obvious (if they aren’t let me know) it is not a good move for me to list the people I think that have power roles and the people that don’t. I’m going to analyze different things now.

I've gotten too much attention to myself. I have a feeling that I'm going to be night killed so let's try to get as much as we an from this day. I assume any suspicion towards me is gone now, and CoolBot is probably safe as soon as the remaining vanilla townies arrive.

. Did anyone see this?
Matt_S: please explain yourself here. Why do you think you will be “night killed?”
Also, why don’t you consider going out of the spotlight that you did here as scummy?

Destructor mentions several times (11, 22) that it’s a possibility that scum have fake-claims. I’m bring this up in case it gets brought up later in the game. My personal opinion is it really is a null-tell, as long as Descructor links to the game where

have recent experience in an ongoing game where a mass name-claim hasn't outed scum.

just to make sure he isn’t bsing this. I don’t think it’s necessary for me to complete my though process here, but I believe this to be a null-tell (for now) and anyone who pushes this as a scummy-point on Destructor is scummy themselves! Haha!

[BridgesAndBaloons]

~~~part two~~~

page 3/4

.
Coolbot pushing against khel (55, 63, 70, ect). This doesn’t appear to be distancing so much, since the attack on khel was unprovoked (noone asked him to name who he thought was scummiest), and it makes me think khel is pro-town.

Gsgold/Petunho/Mert/Shamrock is staying in the background. Me no likey at all.

I really like Massive’s post on 76. Maybe enough for me to quote it.

Khelvaster on 77, says that he would so willing to abandon his argument. I don’t like this. It seems like he’s really trying to appease to someone who is town.

ElJcko (woohoo! A real, life er… not so alive, confirmed townie!) has the same feelings that I did and that Massive did. Eljcko votes for Gsgold/Petunho/Mert/Shamrock on 78.

Just something I’m mentioning here, I’m not saying a whole lot of my ideas since 1/3 of the people of day 1 are dead.
Gsgold/Petunho/Mert/BAB post on 85, also don’t like. Edit: I have to go back and say that this is me. I guess he really was more of a newbie, and he backed off when he got attacked. After all, this is his first game on

this

website.

I want to mention another thing here. I really am writing as I go. So, I’m sorry if I ended up bringing arguments that are discussed on page 12 or whatever. Aside from reading what happened during night one (to know who died), I have not read ahead.

Ting’s post on 86 is something I might want to look at later. I don’t like it.

Lol. I don’t type that unless I actually laughed aloud. Apparently eljcko had the same idea about Ting’s post. He talks about it on post 90. I swear I’m trying to come up with origional ideas, but you guys keep on beating me to the punch!
Actually now that I think about it, it was incredibly likely that someone would have reacted the same way I did. I’m taking back that lol.

Again 92, is ting really basing an argument on an assumption? Again I need to look at Ting’s posts in more detail later.

Massive, post 99, interesting post. He analyzes Khev similar to how I did. However, I don’t like how he connects this to attack Matt_S. If Matt_S is a mafia member, then coolbot would have been pretty freaking stupid to be the one to protect him, especially since Coolbot is the mafia G-dfather, the most valuable (for the mafia-team) mafia member. I hate using all of these guesses as my evidence, but I really don’t see how Matt_S is mafia at this point. His reaction to the claim seemed very genuine.
I also don’t like how everyone is considering Khelv’s move as “a dumb idea.” If Khelv was a vanilla with a name, he would have assumed naturally that all vanillas were in the Fellowship and that a name-claim would have one the game.
I would like to casually FOS anyone who is pushing for Khelv based on his initial role-claim move.
OMG! I feel connected to massive. Everytime I have an idea, I read it, and he has had it too. (he voted for Matt_S because Matt_S voted for khelv based on the role claim idea). He says this in the end of post 99.

Khelv votes for Matt_S for mis-understanding him. Ew. Well I guess at this point of the game votes just had to be cast around. Still, horribly OMGUS reasoning for a vote. I don’t like how Khelv and Matt_S are scummy-izing eachother.

page 5

If you guys consider post 103 to be long, you guys will probably lynch me in no time. I love to write really really long posts every couple of weeks, like this one is.

I really don’t have much to say about this page. The same arguments are going on even though ting tires to divert it. This is very interesting that Ting is trying to get the conversation away from Khelv and Matt_S. If either Khelv or Matt_S come up town, I would be suspicious of Ting because of this.

Imat comes in this page.

page: 6

.
As I’m reading this, I see ting bringing coolbot to the spotlight and voting him (114, 127, ect.) Again, I don’t want to completely absolve ting (and Matt_S for that matter), just because coolbot was the mafia G-dfather. However, the powerful pro-town tell here of attacking Coolbot overrides my current suspicions on ting.

Ah we have so many lurkers at this point of the game! Good thing we got replacements at the end of this page. I have a strong anti-lurker policy. Not quite a LAL, but I’ll get pretty pissed if people start lurking. As soon as

I

get caught up with the game.

page: 7

.

CoolBot, you'd better not be Scum, cuz I just poured through your posts looking for any sign of scumminess and didn't find any. If you are scum, that'll look really bad for me.

. Ok. Coolbot is scum. This does look bad for you. Not because you didn’t think he was scummy. The way you write this, it’s as if you

know

that he is scum and you want to cover your bases

Imat/Shamrock on post 157 attacks Matt_S without mentioning the whole thing of him claiming unnamed. Ignoring this huge part of Matt_S’s gameplay is not good and makes me think Imat/Shamrock just is attacking Matt_S.

Let’s look at Imat, post 166. I think his attack on Matt_S is weak (at best). There’s a major flaw in Imat’s logic in that, at the time Matt actually knew that the claim wouldn’t have worked, since he didn’t have a name. Again, Matt_S could have played an extremely risky gambit, but I’m still doubting that. (sorry if I’m repeating myself here, but I’m resuming writing this after a long break). The three possibilities about Matt_S claim are as followed
1) Matt_S is a named scum and did a HUGE HUGE HUGE gambit claiming an un-named townie.
2) Matt_S is an unnamed scum, this still would have been a pretty BIG gambit, considering he specifically asked vanillas to confirm the “no-name” thing. Then again, the only one who backed up Matt_S was Cool_bot. It seems impossible that Matt_S and Coolbot are in the same scum-faction (e.g. MattS being a Sk) if this happened, so the only possibility that explains this is that Matt_S is an unnamed Sk, imo.
3) Matt_S is an unnamed townie. This would have lead him to believe his assumption. Read al of his posts and everything makes sense given this viewpoint. This seems the most likely because it fits according to what Matt_S said, it is not a risky move at all from his viewpoint, and it takes into account Occam’s Razor (which I personally think is a horrible justification here, and only mentioning it because I like sequences of threes).
Imat also says that

a Named scum will be just as likely to claim unnamed to move attention from himself

. Look, not even

I

am naïve enough to agree with that. Claiming “unnamed” in a themed game is one of the riskiest, most attention-seeking moves once can do! I really hope you guys didn’t let this post slide.

Post 169. Ting, you are my new best friend. Ok, not really, but I like how you point out the flaws in Imat’s argument. Questions: Do you think that Imat still doesn’t understand the events about the name-claims 150 post after it happened? If Imat did understand what happened, wouldn’t pushing this point be scummy? I know the second question has a if clause in it. Just answer please.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

(

I really hope you guys are actually reading this. Nothing else really happened over the weekend.

)

~~~part three~~~

page 8

Post 186. Coolbot says

I never claimed whether I have a name or not. And I won't do so until necessary.

. Yeah. Okay.
CB pretty much claims that he had a name in this post imo. He also clearly says, in post 14 “I'm not part of the Fellowship.” Seems to me that if you combine the two, he had a non-Fellowship scum-role-name. Although I feel like I’m missing some logic here. Anyway, if I’m right, then we have pretty much eliminated that coolbot and Matt_S are in the same faction.

Oops! My talking about Imat’s post on 166 missed one thing, we already have the SK lynched. If you assumed that there isn’t two SK (which would be pretty annoying for this small game), That Matt_S really really seems like a townie.
Oh reading along I realize that it’s possible that both Matt_S and Coolbot had safe-claims as un-named. I guess I’ll keep my mind open to Matt_S being scum.


I like desctuctor’s post on 194.
197

pie_is_good

Khelvaster wants a name claim still. I support this.

@TALITHA (199): to find out if you originally had a name, pm the mod. That’s what I did.

page 9

203 Massive is anti-claim.
222 Petunho/Mert/Bab asks for a replacement. What a jerk.
I’m going to speed my analysis up again…
Good this page was horribly uneventful and circular.
Oh, I wanted to say that I am really really pissed off at my predecessors. I

hate

lurkers, and I would have lynched them/me by now. I’m glad you guys aren’t like me. I’ll try to post a lot to make up for them.

page 10

225, Imat is right. Matt_S need to do some more active scum-hunting. I guess he could argue that he has been defending attacks the whole time, but he really needs to do both. I hope that Matt_S votes sometime in between now and page 20. I hope.

It seems so far (Qman’s post 235 promted this thought) that everyone is going around saying Ting is town. Okay, I may have said that in context with evidence, but just saying that a certain player is town with no evidence is a bad move.
Dear town, from now on, please do not list who you think is a townie unless it’s backed by evidence in that post. Thank you.

The only other thing in this whole page is Qman kind of claims unnamed

I don't have a name

. Still, I think that Qman might not have received his origonal pm.

could all the replacements please pm the mod asking for their original role-pm name?

. Then, Qman I’m sure you wouldn’t have a problem re-claiming?

page 11

.

Coolbot on 251 claims that his pm is “more or less” what Massive’s pm is (which Massive claimed on 250 that “My PM does not specifically say that the Fellowship is the Town; it says a lot of stuff about conquering the baddies, but it doesn't say anything about the Fellowship.”
This provides evidence that Coolbot really was following townies (since his pm clearly wasn’t a townie one. He was the g-dfather!). If Matt_S or Destructor come up as town, it would seem like the other is one based on this. However, like I said before, I hate judging all my assumptions based on the fact that Coolbot was following Matt_S in the beginning.

page 12

.

292 Finally Mert/Bab replaces in!
293: Talitha wins the funny post of the game. I literally laughed aloud. That doesn’t happen on the internet unless I’m reading QDB. You rock!
Possibly offensive material:

@Talitha 294. I’m answering this in case Mert doesn’t. I’ve looked at my role, and the reason everyone keeps leaving is that my role has a post restriction. I’m only allowed to post while giving the mod a blowjob.

I was going to leave that unspoiled, but I realize that some people might not think it was that funny. It definitely was offensives. Especially the part with the elephant. Yeah now you’re really curious and want to unspoil it? Well don’t. It’s possibly offensive.

297:

I, too, had a named-non-Fellowship role. I mean, I asked enough questions about it

Qman: make sure you ask the mod for your previous role-name. Then you’ll be able to understand the first three pages.

page 13

Mert/Bab comes on post 300! YAY!
312, Imat/Shamrock makes an interesting case on Talitha. The discussion goes back and forth. I don’t find anything to comment about it.
320, eljcko defends himself. He also claims an un-named vannila in the fellowship. He is confirmed in his death, so we know that at least one vanilla didn’t have a role pm.

page 14

.

Khelv shows incredible close mindedness on post 329. this is enough

FOS Khelvaster

. I’m starting to think that Khelvaster is actually a mafia member who was given a name of a member in the fellowship. According to the mod, there were pro-town/anti-town roles outside of the fellowship, but I wonder if the opposite goes. I will ask, though I’m not sure if he’ll answer this. (at this point I posted my most recent post, post number 485)

And now we have then end of day 1. Finally.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

~~~part 4~~~

page 15

.
Wtf. We had three kills last night. Shit we lost Talitha, our cop. I wish we had a cop still. But then again Sk, crazy_vlad and the mafia g-dfather Coolbot died. My personal idea is that we have a vig on the town side. It makes the most sense to me. I hope we don’t have a CPR doctor, because that role is really tricky to play. I guess that losing our cop wasn’t too bad, since the G-dfather, a pretty powerful scum-role dead, and the SK is dead. I think that having two scum-groups or a second SK is two slanted in favour of scum for this amount of people in a game.
Based on very little evidence, I’m assuming we have 2/3 mafia left (most likely 2) to lynch.

Wait a second, Imat/shamrock thinks we have a CPR doc or another SK? I don’t know too much about balance in games, but separate anti-town killing groups seems unfair in a 12 person game. Too bad I can’t ask him a question.

There’s a whole bunch of discussion about what happended on this page.

Oh, and then massive makes a case (372) against destructor, suspects destructor and qman, and votes for

no one

. This is recent enough to be relevant,

FOS destructor

. He also ignores the fact that if destructor had been given a safe-claim, the LAST thing destructor would have done is bring up safe-claims. Bad argument, bad post, and it’s worth my FOS.

Over all the massive/destructor argument makes massive look scummier.

page 16

.
384, Massive getting emotional.

page 17

destructor’s post on 409 got me thinking. It does seem possible that Matt_S had a safe-claim, but then again, the fact that destructor kind of came to his rescue (claiming non-fellowship) which is something Matt_S would not have done if they knew that the claim was safe! I hate recycling this argument. I really do.

Either I’m really speeding up my pace, or the past few pages have been lacking.

page 18

Massive: I need to see your case on Qman.

Post 189, Massive quoted this. Pretty much slap my name on this quote and it’s what I believe. This is a great post. It makes me feel positive about Massive now.

page 19

Wow what a case Imat has on Matt_S on post 454. Let’s see how good it is.
Oh. Disappointing. I really would like someone to post a convincing case on Matt_S to prove my intial assumptions wrong, since I hate to feel the same way going through the whole game. Darn.

455, of course mod, you didn’t anticipate BridgesAndBaloons! Someone who has no tolerance waiting in lines and will foolishly replace into a 19 page game.

Okay I’m done with the read through! WOOHOO!

~~~end of game review~~~

So I'm sorry if that was really hard to read. I tried to break it up with some humor. If the jokes sucked, you can laugh

at

me instead.

Anyway, I think it would benefit the town for me to make a vote. This vote is not backed by a case *yet* but I think the scummiest is Shamrock.

vote: Shamrock

Questions? Comments? Just freaking write something. I hate lurkers.

[ting =)]

Do you think that Imat still doesn’t understand the events about the name-claims 150 post after it happened? If Imat did understand what happened, wouldn’t pushing this point be scummy? I know the second question has a if clause in it. Just answer please.

I think he might be scum. I've said as much before. I'm still thinking it over, but yes, I think he understood and was fibbing things to build a case on Matt.

I'll type out the rest of my thoughts on Imat and the others soon-ish.

[massive]

BAB

: Do you still want info from me about why I suspect Qman?

[Shamrock]

I'm not sure how you expect me to respond to a vote with no case behind it.

[Khelvaster]

HoS: BaB

Covering up a caseless vote with a massive PBPA is not going to work.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

@khelvaster: I didn't cover anything up. I admitted the vote was caseless, but if we want this game to stop being so slow we need to take action. I voted him because he seemed the summiest based on Imat's actions on posts on 151 157 166 and 454. Again, it was my suspicions based on re-reading the game.
I haven't taken the time to look at the game each person individually, thus, I have no case. *yet*. Notice how I said yet. I'm trying to get the game rolling, and you ignore the brunt of post and claim that I'm "covering up a caseless vote."

Also, why is a posting an

admittedly

* "caseless vote" scummy? Am I not entitled to post my suspicions unless there is overwhelming evidence? No, according to you, I should shut up and let this game drag.

@ Everyone: Votes get the game rolling. I'm going to ask everyone, especially khelvaster, to place a vote. Thank you.

@ting, 475: Whose post are you referring to?
@massive 491: Yes yes yes. I'm sure you stated it in the thread, but please rephrase. I'm confused about it.

@shamrock 492: Like I said in my summary, it (the summary) was probably not going to be a case agaisnt anyone directly. However, what Imat said was enough for me. Again, I'm trying to get the game rolling. I encourage you to vote for who you think is scummiest please. If you want to defend yourself, maybe you could explain where Imat was coming from since you know his role? I don't like to vote based on predecessors, but it's the best feeling I have.

*I agree if I tried to mask my post as having a case when it didn't would obviously be scummy. However, I clearly labeled the vote as caseless for now.

[Matt_S]

@ Everyone: Votes get the game rolling. I'm going to ask everyone, especially khelvaster, to place a vote. Thank you.

Done =)

[ting =)]

These are Imat's posts which are related to coolbot. I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions, this is not an analysis. I add commentary only to summarize posts related to other people, with extra mention on the other people whose alignment we know - eljcko, crazy vlad, talitha.
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As for CoolBot, I'll have to reread what he has said, pick up on what you two have seen.

CoolBot has show himself to be shady in this game, I don't know if he warrants a vote, but his quick bandwagon hops do strike me as trying to get a quick lynch over with, perhaps anxious for the night to arrive. However, I haven't been looking much at his posts because I was paying more attention to Matt and Khel at the time. I'll have to look at CB's posts specifically.

CoolBot, you'd better not be Scum, cuz I just poured through your posts looking for any sign of scumminess and didn't find any. If you are scum, that'll look really bad for me.

CoolBot, following the same logic, also claimed unnamed. Its possible we've just uncovered two Scum. However, I've convinced myself that Coolbot isn't Scum, a dangerous position to have on any player, so I won't take action on him yet.

I won't argue the CB vote anymore, if he wants to lurk he'll just look the worse for it, sticking my own neck out for some random player doesn't strike me as a good move anymore. However, what I defended him on in the past still stands, so I personally won't vote for him unless I see something really scummy.

What I said about Matt also stands, however, so my vote won't change from him until, again, scummy behavior is seen.

What is suspicious is that CoolBot hasn't told us of these other names in the past, even though he has said hes not in the Fellowship and is named. To not defend this easily reinforced arguement seems somewhat...odd...I'll be keeping a closer eye on his posts, specifically dealing with names, when I reread...

CoolBot's not giving examples of names outside of the fellowship but still pro-town, even though its an easy thing to give examples for.

CoolBot has shown himself to be persistent against the bandwagoned players. Perhaps looking for an easy place to park his vote, perhaps genuinely believing in the Scumminess of the target. Even now, when Matt_S has explained himself, CB wants answers for answered questions. Perhaps he needs to reread, but he seems to want a quick lynch in any case.

Up to this point, nearly all of Imat's posts have been focused on Matt, most of them involving comparison with coolbot, and then concluding that matt is scummier. No mention of crazy vlad anywhere. Only has 3 posts concerning Eljcko. After this point, Imat focuses on Talitha and accordingly votes her until the day ends.

Day 2:
Imat goes back to attacking Matt. For reference, his reason for unvoting Matt early on was:

Actually, I think I'll UnVote, 5 out of 7 votes is too close for me, I felt like we haven't had nearly enough discussion to put somebody at that level.

He revotes after a lengthy pbpa of Matt, which is too long to either quote or summarize.

His last post in the whole game is an attack on Shamrock.

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Also just for reference: Coolbot never mentions Imat. Only once.

I don't know, I think you're reading into her posts what you want to, Imat. Especially the joke thing - I can't see how you're not seeing it.

His first vote was on Khel, because he said we needed a wagon. After 2 posts, he switches his vote to Matt, who he spends the most part of the day gunning for. Towards the end of the day, he votes Qman. His case on Qman is the shortest of all his votes, it's only 5 lines total spread over 3 posts. His last post was when he unvoted Qman to hammer.

This is not an analysis of coolbot's posts, and I'm not trying to imply anything. I'm including this part only because I'm posting Imat's posts related to coolbot.

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@matt.
You have a voice as well as a vote. Besides Qman, who are you suspicious of?

@bab.
474.

mod:prods please?

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I will probably vote Shamrock, but I'll hold it until after I read up massive's posts.

[Matt_S]

You have a voice as well as a vote. Besides Qman, who are you suspicious of?

I've got my eye on Shamrock a little still, and his reaction to BridgesAndBaloons' vote was odd. Really, I'm looking at almost everyone, so I'm a little lost until Qman shows up and something happens there.

[massive]

My suspicion of Qman stems from 3 things:

1) His stubborn refusal to allow the town to continue to discuss the theming of the game. The theming of the game, despite being pulled, is still crucial to determining who's scum and who isn't. Qman, upon his replacement, blasted anyone who wanted to use the theming in discussion. He refused to even contemplate it's place in the game. This is not the action of someone who is pro-town; a townie would want to gather as much information as possible.

2) His "interesting kill" comment at the start of Day Two (352). I may be out of practice, but I always pay attention to anyone who says "Jeez, interesting kills, I hope we have a vigilante." I mean, it's in the Wiki for a reason (Common Tells).

3) His defense to my accusations is basically WIFOM. "I'm not dumb enough to do what you're saying."

So there it is. My reasons for voting Qman.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

@ting

His last post in the whole game is an attack on Shamrock.

I'm sorry. What are you saying here. I got confused with the pronouns. Shamrock and Imat are the same role.

@bab.
474.

What about it?

@massive:
You strongly believe Qman to be a killer (361). Why?

@Everyone: I intend to do some more personal player analysis this weekend.