Mini 771 - Mafia in Ludd: Game Over

[camn]

camn:

Why would scum be more likely to soft-claim than town?

Because it is in scum's interest to be perceived as a PR, and thus a poor lynch, but not be a CLAIMED PR, and thus have to deal with why-aren't-you-dead WIFOM.

On the other hand, it is in a townies interest to HIDE their PR status, because then they live longer.

Not that I am saying C was softclaiming. Just that softclaiming and rolefishing often go together.
I wasn't rolefishing GC, and I don't believe GC was softclaiming. I don't believe that GC has role-based on Yos, and I think his case is almost entirely meta-based.

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Page 20 Votecount

camn (0/7):
charter (0/7):
DizzyIzzyB13 (1/7): Korts
Ether (0/7):
Green Crayons (0/7):
Incognito (0/7):
Korts (3/7): Incognito, Patrick, DizzyIzzyB13
OhGodMyLife (0/7):
Patrick (1/7): Xdaamno
skitzer (0/7):
Xdaamno (1/7): Green Crayons,
Yosarian2 (3/7): OhGodMyLife, charter, Ether

Not voting (3/12):

skitzer, Yosarian2, camn

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

Countdown To Deadline
============================

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Oh, I see, he didn't reply.

Before I get into anything else, does anyone here other than Yosarian or Patrick want to venture a guess as to why the two of them continuing to hammer at wanting a reason for me not believing a miller IN THIS SETUP is terribly scummy?

What was the point of this question, OGML? It seemed like you had a reason for it.

OGML?

What was unclear about the question? Seems simple enough to me.

You asked a question to make a point that, since nobody answered it, appears to have been missed by people. I'd also like to know why you asked this question and what you're holding back?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

camn:

Why would scum be more likely to soft-claim than town?

Because it is in scum's interest to be perceived as a PR, and thus a poor lynch, but not be a CLAIMED PR, and thus have to deal with why-aren't-you-dead WIFOM.

On the other hand, it is in a townies interest to HIDE their PR status, because then they live longer.

Not that I am saying C was softclaiming. Just that softclaiming and rolefishing often go together.
I wasn't rolefishing GC, and I don't believe GC was softclaiming. I don't believe that GC has role-based on Yos, and I think his case is almost entirely meta-based.

Query: What do you mean by "PR"?

[camn]

Power Role.

[Green Crayons]

Korts: It's not a matter of multiple interpretations. Or a lack of understanding of semantics.

A couple is less than a few, but I wouldn't even stretch "a few" to be nine considering the context. If you said "a few," I would still be giving you crap for this. You rejoined the conversation at page 15. 9 Pages behind at that time was over

half the thread

. I'm supposed to think that's just a few pages?

The fact that you aren't just saying it was a mistake either through your own misjudgment of just how far behind you actually were or because you didn't think it would be that difficult to catch up is why I keep harping on this. You want us to assume that when you said that you were a "couple of pages back" you were behind more than half the game.

I've just largely been biting my tongue on him because I keep getting this nagging feeling that if he ends up being lynched today, he's gonna somehow flip town.

But if we lynch him tomorrow he will turn up scum?

Not that I am saying C was softclaiming. Just that softclaiming and rolefishing often go together.
I wasn't rolefishing GC, and I don't believe GC was softclaiming. I don't believe that GC has role-based on Yos, and I think his case is almost entirely meta-based.

I'm pretty sure you mean OGML and not GC, here.

You asked a question to make a point that, since nobody answered it, appears to have been missed by people. I'd also like to know why you asked this question and what you're holding back?

1. Both camn, Yos, Patrick and I responded to this. Incog is questioning camn about her response to this. Are you really saying you didn't catch all of this?
2. It's abundantly clear what he meant by it.

[Incognito]

camn, eh, I have to say I disagree. I don't think a scum necessarily wants to be seen as a PR -- a scum just wants to be seen as town in general or just fly under the radar if possible. Soft-claiming (especially when the person is under little to no pressure) tends to do the opposite of that by bringing the person into the spotlight.

I've just largely been biting my tongue on him because I keep getting this nagging feeling that if he ends up being lynched today, he's gonna somehow flip town.

But if we lynch him tomorrow he will turn up scum?

A scum is a scum is a scum no matter the day, yes. I was just trying to emphasize the point that I think a Korts-lynch is more likely to hit scum than an Xdaamno-lynch.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

You asked a question to make a point that, since nobody answered it, appears to have been missed by people. I'd also like to know why you asked this question and what you're holding back?

1. Both camn, Yos, Patrick and I responded to this. Incog is questioning camn about her response to this. Are you really saying you didn't catch all of this?
2. It's abundantly clear what he meant by it.

1. I noticed Yos and Patrick respond to it. I'll go and re-read for you and Camn now, since I've either missed it or mixed up your responses to that with something else.

2. It really, really isn't.

[skitzer]

Well, you make it sound like I get upset over mafia. I'd say it varies with interest at the time of each post (which is almost completely random - this playerlist is great, obv)

That's what I meant: mood and interest at the time. And I couldn't agree with you more about the playerlist.

So would you say it's better to judge X's play on a case-by-case basis (that is, solely within the confines of a single game) in order to determine his scum/town leanings, since his meta is a complete mess?

Yes, that pretty much sums it up.

Just popping in to reiterate that the only person other that Yos who I would even consider lynching is charter.

This is similar to the Xdaamno's 437, which seems pointless, and as you say yourself, a reiteration.

[OhGodMyLife]

skitzer, 461 is nothing like 437.

Izzy, Xd, I've gotten what I could out of my question, pressing me further on it will get you nowhere.

[Xdaamno]

Playing with you is very, very irritating, because you constantly lie.

Each time you have labeled me as "lying" it was either me voicing my opinion/interpretation of events or me cutting through your BS and calling something for what it was.

Not only have I not asked "clarification", I have only done what you think you are accusing me of once.

Looks like requesting clarification to me:

What was the point of this question, OGML? It seemed like you had a reason for it.

You've let to draw a link between this behaviour and being scummy. I can see one, but I want to know what you're thinking of.

Where in your post does he 'argument shift'?

Asking the reason for his question is not the same as asking clarification about his question. In the context of your sentence, that is a huge difference - not only is it not "obvious" because there is a few different things it could be, but you have also missed the point of my inquiry. I'm investigating OGML's alignment, and the way he presents his answer will make a difference in how I see him. This element is present in 'inquiry' but not in 'clarification'.

[Xdaamno]

skitzer, 461 is nothing like 437.

Izzy, Xd, I've gotten what I could out of my question, pressing me further on it will get you nowhere.

You don't want to tell us what you got out of your question?

[OhGodMyLife]

I'm suddenly seeing Xdaamno burying himself in semantics arguments.

[OhGodMyLife]

skitzer, 461 is nothing like 437.

Izzy, Xd, I've gotten what I could out of my question, pressing me further on it will get you nowhere.

You don't want to tell us what you got out of your question?

At least one person already understood the basis for and what I got out of the question. Thats enough for me.

[Xdaamno]

Well, you make it sound like I get upset over mafia. I'd say it varies with interest at the time of each post (which is almost completely random - this playerlist is great, obv)

That's what I meant: mood and interest at the time. And I couldn't agree with you more about the playerlist.

So would you say it's better to judge X's play on a case-by-case basis (that is, solely within the confines of a single game) in order to determine his scum/town leanings, since his meta is a complete mess?

Yes, that pretty much sums it up.

Just popping in to reiterate that the only person other that Yos who I would even consider lynching is charter.

This is similar to the Xdaamno's 437, which seems pointless, and as you say yourself, a reiteration.

First of all, I disagree - OGML's post was useful in reminding me where he stood.

Secondly, though, would you have thought my short post would have been less suspiscious if it was merged with my other posts sandwiching it? I used it as a divider, and I think that has inflammated this suspiscion. I do see your point, though, and it was a bad thing to post. I knew my last post looked like I was still arguing about theory, so I quickly posted that and went back to check the thread.

[Xdaamno]

I'm suddenly seeing Xdaamno burying himself in semantics arguments.

Does it seem that way to you? The difference in semantics is the one factor which validates or invalidates Erg0's attack.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

You asked a question to make a point that, since nobody answered it, appears to have been missed by people. I'd also like to know why you asked this question and what you're holding back?

1. Both camn, Yos, Patrick and I responded to this. Incog is questioning camn about her response to this. Are you really saying you didn't catch all of this?
2. It's abundantly clear what he meant by it.

1. I noticed Yos and Patrick respond to it. I'll go and re-read for you and Camn now, since I've either missed it or mixed up your responses to that with something else.

2. It really, really isn't.

'kay, found them, when I was looking for them. In my defence, I seem to have skipped over Camn's response which was the first post in one page, and yours was in the middle of a longish post and thus easy enough to miss, particularly with your method in that post of including links to posts rather than quotes meaning I was switching from window to window when reading it.

[Xdaamno]

skitzer, 461 is nothing like 437.

Izzy, Xd, I've gotten what I could out of my question, pressing me further on it will get you nowhere.

You don't want to tell us what you got out of your question?

At least one person already understood the basis for and what I got out of the question. Thats enough for me.

So you think there is a disadvantage to telling the rest of us?

[OhGodMyLife]

skitzer, 461 is nothing like 437.

Izzy, Xd, I've gotten what I could out of my question, pressing me further on it will get you nowhere.

You don't want to tell us what you got out of your question?

At least one person already understood the basis for and what I got out of the question. Thats enough for me.

So you think there is a disadvantage to telling the rest of us?

Apparently so. Gonna stop pressing this yet?

[Korts]

Secondly, though, would you have thought my short post would have been less suspiscious if it was merged with my other posts sandwiching it?

It wouldn't have been much less suspicious, since the scumtell is the fact that you bring attention to the fact that you intend to scumhunt; but either way the fact that there was nothing afterwards that would've been the bottom slice of bread is an indicator that it was just fluffposting for town cred.

[Xdaamno]

skitzer, 461 is nothing like 437.

Izzy, Xd, I've gotten what I could out of my question, pressing me further on it will get you nowhere.

You don't want to tell us what you got out of your question?

At least one person already understood the basis for and what I got out of the question. Thats enough for me.

So you think there is a disadvantage to telling the rest of us?

Apparently so. Gonna stop pressing this yet?

OH NOW I SEE YES

[Xdaamno]

Secondly, though, would you have thought my short post would have been less suspiscious if it was merged with my other posts sandwiching it?

It wouldn't have been much less suspicious, since the scumtell is the fact that you bring attention to the fact that you intend to scumhunt; but either way the fact that there was nothing afterwards that would've been the bottom slice of bread is an indicator that it was just fluffposting for town cred.

OK, I agree.

[Korts]

Secondly, though, would you have thought my short post would have been less suspiscious if it was merged with my other posts sandwiching it?

It wouldn't have been much less suspicious, since the scumtell is the fact that you bring attention to the fact that you intend to scumhunt; but either way the fact that there was nothing afterwards that would've been the bottom slice of bread is an indicator that it was just fluffposting for town cred.

OK, I agree.

unvote, vote: Xdaamno

[Yosarian2]

I meant what were you trying to infer from the answers you would be given, or what was your goal in asking the question, if anything.

I would assume that the goal of it was to try to get more people interested in lynching me, which has basically been the goal of every single one of his posts since my miller claim.

And, actually, now that he's implied he's drawn some kind of role based conclusion that made him (incorrectly) think that there probably isn't a miller in this game, I'm a lot less suspicious of him. The stuff that's really seemed scummy to me earlier, the extremely aggressive behavior towards me, the way he wasmisrepresnting everything I say , the tunnel vision on me, the weak arguments he keeps inventing against me, the difference from how he played last time he saw a miller, and the complete and undivided attention on trying to lynch me while ignoring everything else; I was thinking that those were scum tells, but they also make perfect sense if he's town who thinks he has some reason to not believe me. All of his behavior does, really.

So, let's let this go for now. I can think of any number of possible reasons he may have come to that false conclusion, depending on how far he was willing to go to try and outguess the mod based on limited information, and I don't think we need him to roleclaim today (nor do we need to speculate about what those reasons might be, please). We'll sort this out later, when we have more information about the setup; for now, I don't see any reason for people to keep badgering him for role info.

[Xdaamno]

Secondly, though, would you have thought my short post would have been less suspiscious if it was merged with my other posts sandwiching it?

It wouldn't have been much less suspicious, since the scumtell is the fact that you bring attention to the fact that you intend to scumhunt; but either way the fact that there was nothing afterwards that would've been the bottom slice of bread is an indicator that it was just fluffposting for town cred.

OK, I agree.

unvote, vote: Xdaamno

What?

[Xdaamno]

Pre-emptive: Yes, it would only have been a little less suspiscious if the posts a merge, but it would be a little bit nontheless. I recognize it would look like I was fluffposting either way.